§ THE EARL OF DERBYrose for the purpose of making a request to the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Ellenborough) on the subject of the question of which he had given notice, namely, whether Her Majesty's Government were prepared to lay before the House any papers explanatory of the grounds of the war with Ava. The terms in which the noble Earl had worded his question were at any rate premature, for they related to the "war" with Ava. Unfortunately there had been a hostile collision between forces of the two countries on two different occasions; but no actual 56 war had taken place, and no declaration of war had been issued up to the time when the last accounts were sent from India;* He therefore still hoped that such a misfortune might be averted. The first account of the proceedings in Ava reached the Government by the last mail, and only1 the day before the last mail to India started. The Board of Directors had^ therefore, only a hasty opportunity of stating their opinion on the course pursued by the Governor General in India. As to the second collision, the Government had received accounts of it from the Commodore at Rangoon, but, as yet, no accounts of it had reached the Court of Directors from the Governor General of India. Consequently we had only imperfect accounts of it, and no opinion given by the Governor General of India in Council upon it. He (the Earl of Derby) was in a position in which he could only lay before the House —he would not say "garbled," but—imperfect accounts of these transactions; and therefore he hoped that his noble Friend' would postpone the question of which he had given notice until the arrival of the next Indian mail, which probably, he had almost said certainly, would place us in full possession of the details of the case, and of the opinion formed upon them by the Governor General on the spot.
§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHsaid, that under the circumstances it was impossible not to comply with the request of the noble Earl, although unfortunately he could not concur in the hopes he expressed, as he had not concurred when the same hopes were expressed by the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Lansdowne) a month ago. It seemed that he (the Earl of Ellenborough) was correct, and the noble Marquess was incorrect, and he believed it would appear that he was still correct in his more gloomy anticipations. He was most anxious to call their Lordships' attention to the subject, not only with regard to what was past, but still more with regard to what was to come. Of course, he should now postpone his question, which he might convert into a Motion, in order to put the whole case before their Lordships. Would the noble Earl object to the 5th or 6th of April?
§ THE EARL OF DERBYhad no objection to the 5th of April.
THE EARL OF ELLEBOROUGH, whilst on this subject, wished to offer a suggestion to the noble Duke at the head of the Admiralty, with reference to the position of 57 the commanders of Her Majesty's ships in the course of the transactions now taking place. Inasmuch as the authorities in England and India had been without the smallest anticipation that the steps adopted at Rangoon would be followed by war, he thought, if possible, the Admiralty might have neglected to give instructions to the Commodore on the Indian station as to the course he was to pursue upon the occurrence of war. Their Lordships were aware that the Governor General of India had no power to give any instructions to the commanders of Her Majesty's fleets in that part of the world. The Admiral, in regard to the Governor General, stood in the position of the commander of an allied force—he could only offer suggestions—and it rested with the commander, at his discretion, to act upon those suggestions or not. He thought that was a position in which it was inexpedient for the public service that the commander of Her Majesty's ships should be placed. He did not think it fair that the officers of Her Majesty's ships should be placed in a position in which they could not receive positive orders to effect the purposes of the Government, which was practically the direct operation of leaving those orders to be sent only from England. It was not fair to leave the commander to act or not, according to his discretion; and he hoped the noble Duke would take care that by the next mail instructions would be given which would relieve our naval commanders from the anomalous position in which they were at present placed.
THE DUKE OF NORTHUMBERLANDsaid, that the commander of our squadron in those seas had acted upon a letter of instructions from the Governor General in Council, and those instructions had been faithfully adhered to, also by the Commodore on the station. It had been the custom, and it was now the case, that while the Commodore was at one part of the station, the Admiral was at the other. At present the Admiral was at Hong Kong, awl the Commodore was at Rangoon, under the instructions of the Governor General in Council, which were considered as orders, as it was impossible to wait for orders from this country, which must depend on transactions from day to day. He did not know whether it bad happened while his noble Friend opposite was in India, but it had been proposed that the Admiral should have a seat in the Council during the time of his command; but this was found to be inconvenient at a time when the Governor General 58 was in the Upper Provinces. Certainly the Admiral could only fulfil his duties on that command by acting in accordance with the instructions of the Governor General in Council.
§ THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHfeared the noble Duke did not understand that the Governor General had no power to give instructions—he could only offer suggestions —and no doubt the Commodore had faithfully acted upon the suggestions, which the noble Duke called instructions; but he might not have done so if he had thought those instructions were not such as he ought to obey. What he (the Earl of Ellenborough) asked was that he should be directed to obey them, and be held safe; and not, if he acted improperly in obeying or in not attending to the suggestions, be liable perhaps to punishment, certainly to strong animadversion. For the safety of the officer, he ought to know distinctly his position. He (the noble Earl) had no doubts on this subject. When he was in the Upper Provinces upon one occasion, his colleagues at Calcutta did give instructions to the commander of one of Her Majesty's ships. The commander represented the matter to the Admiral. The Admiral very properly remonstrated. The Council referred to him (the Earl of Ellenborough), and he told them that the only thing they could do was to apologise; suggestions and requests they might, but orders they were not competent to give. It might be proper to abolish that monstrous job the Indian Navy, and have only Royal ships. When he proposed to do so, he could have effected a saving of 100,000l. a year, and now he believed he could save from 150,000l. to 200,000l. a year. Until that was done, and until the officers could act under the instructions of the Governor General, they must be placed in an anomalous position.
THE EARL OF MINTOconsidered that the Admiral on the Indian station was in the same position as any of Her Majesty's commanders on any foreign station. They acted under the instructions of the Admiralty, and according to the desire of any of our foreign Ministers. To place the Admiral directly under the orders of the Governor General, might lead to great inconvenience, and he was not aware of any practical inconvenience arising from the present state of things.
§ LORD BROUGHTONconfirmed the correctness of what had fallen from the noble Earl. He could state, from a communica- 59 tion which he had himself received before he left the Board of Control, that the Commodore at Rangoon had offered to act before ha received any instructions from the Governor General. He had also received a letter from the present Governor General of India, in his official capacity, in which he complained of the anomaly in which Her Majesty's naval officers in India were placed, and in which he expressed a hope that when the new Charter of the East India Company came under discussion, that anomaly would be taken into consideration and removed.