HL Deb 30 June 1852 vol 122 cc1393-7
LORD MONTEAGLE

said, that when he first gave notice of his intention to move for the "Report of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the Ancient Laws and Institutes of Ireland," he had believed that very interesting paper to have been laid before the House of Commons only. He subsequently found that it had been moved for in the House of Lords by the Vice-President of the Board of Trade (Lord Colchester). His Motion in its original form was therefore unnecessary; but to bring himself within the rules of order, he should move for copies of any subsequent communications addressed to the Government, on the subject of that Report. The object he had in view was to invite his noble Friend opposite (the Earl of Derby) to communicate the intentions of the Government on a subject which, though free from party interest, was of great public importance to all who were desirous of elucidating our early laws, history, and manners. It appeared from the Report that a most valuable collection of the ancient Irish Brehon laws had been made in Ireland by the eminent philologist, Edward Llwyd; this collection passed into the hands of the late Sir John Sebright, by whom it was presented to Trinity College, Dublin. The suggestion which led to this gift is said to have come from Edmund Burke, whose high authority was thus given to an undertaking which he considered important both on literary and historical grounds. Burke had in other cases also, as well as his contemporary, Flood, manifested a desire that the ancient records of Ireland should be made accessible to students. There were collections of the same laws preserved at the Bodleian and the British Museum. A fourth collection had also existed at Stowe, made for the late Duke of Buckingham by Dr. O'Connor, and now the property of Lord Ashburnham. He might be permitted to observe in passing how much the literary world owed to the Duke of Buckingham for having printed, at his own expense, the four volumes of the Rerum Hiberni-carum Scriptores —which he was enabled, on the high authority of his late right hon. Friend Sir James Mackintosh, to describe as one of the most interesting and important records existing. These literary treasures were thus scattered, unedited, and not available for any practical purposes whatever. A representation of these facts was made to his noble Friend Lord Clarendon, when Lord Lieutenant, who, with the assent of Lord John Russell's Board of Treasury, named two distinguished ornaments of the Irish University, Dr. Todd and Dr. Graves, to inquire and to report on the subject. It appeared that these laws were most curious, and of high antiquity. The MSS. in Dublin go no further back, it is true, than the early part of the 14th century. But the laws themselves attain a much higher antiquity; being traceable to Cormac in 908, and containing proofs of having existed so far anterior as in the 5th century. On these MSS. the Commissioners report— Apart from their mere antiquity, these laws are possessed of considerable interest to the historian and jurist. They lay down the privileges and duties of persons of all classes; they define the tenure of land and the rights of property of all kinds. In a word, they furnish a perfect picture of the society which they were designed to regulate, from the constitution of the kingdom, and the relation subsisting between the Sovereign and the provincial kings, down to the minutest details of domestic life among the serfs. What he wished his noble Friend to consider was the importance of losing no time in carrying out the recommendations of the Commissioners by undertaking the collation and publication of these early laws, at the public expense. Already the Anglo-Saxon and the Welsh laws had been so dealt with. The present opportunity was one of peculiar importance, which should not be neglected or lost. There were several learned men now living, who were capable of executing the duties of transcribers and editors; but the Commissioners state that "death and emigration were fast removing the number of persons so qualified." He was aware that on the part of some who, to him, appeared not only prejudiced but shallow reasoners, there was felt some apprehension that the publication of these ancient records might stimulate national feelings of restlessness and discontent. He did not participate in what he considered so weak and irrational an alarm. But on this subject he should take the liberty of reading an extract from the Report itself, which would serve to remove these fears, wherever they might be found to exist. For himself he needed not any confirmation of what he considered an undeniable principle, namely, that the publication and diffusion of truth could not be other than useful in all cases, and without any exception. The Commissioners took special but not inconsistent grounds. They state— There are some circumstances which would render the publication of these ancient laws peculiarly interesting in the eyes of the politician. It is not improbable that the habits of thought and action prevailing amongst the native Irish are reflected in the laws which they framed for themselves before they were affected by foreign influences, and to which they continued to cling with obstinate tenacity, even for centuries after they bad been compelled to submit to British rule. The Brehon Laws were actually appealed to so late as the reign of Charles I. We must not, therefore, be surprised to find some traces yet remaining of their effect upon society. We would also suggest that good results would be obtained by exhibiting the real state of this country at a remote period of its history. It would then be found that false or exaggerated notions have been entertained of the well-being of society and the advancement of civilisation in early times. Ireland never enjoyed a golden age. It would be more true to say, that she suffered for many ages under an iron feudalism, which administered essentially different laws to the rich and to the poor. Ignorance on this head has certainly created in some minds an unreasonable dissatisfaction with the present order of things, and a perverse disposition to thwart the efforts of those who are doing their utmost to ameliorate it. Nothing could be more efficacious in dispelling such morbid national prejudices than a complete publication of the ancient Irish laws. But he had other authorities in favour of the suit which he urged on his noble Friend: men of the highest eminence, abroad and at home, Hallam and Macauley, Lord Mahon, M. GuiÔzt, Professor Ranke, and Professor Grimm of Berlin, had all expressed the strongest opinions on the subject. Mr. Hallam says— The publication of the Irish laws as a national undertaking, would he honourable to our Government; and in a literary view, such a publication would be of high value. Laws do more to give a knowledge of society than brief chronicles or suspicious tradition. M. GuizÔt says— I consider that the publication of the ancient Irish laws is of the highest importance to historical knowledge, not only in your country but throughout Europe. These laws are at once the most ancient and the most recent records of the civilisation of early European society; because they rise to an earlier epoch, and have existed in vigour to a later period than any other collection of the same kind. He regretted that he had not on this occasion the assistance and support of a noble Friend of his, the Earl of Rosse, the President of the Royal Society, whose high character in literature and science would give weight to the application he ventured to urge. But he was entitled to say, that he had that noble Lord's hearty concurrence. He had already observed that the Commission had been issued under the authority of Lord Clarendon, and of Lord John Russell's Government. The report was made, however, after the change of Administration, to the present Lord Lieutenant, the Earl of Eglintoun, and was recommended by that nobleman to the favourable consideration of the present Treasury. He, therefore, hoped that his noble Friend (Lord Derby) would complete the work well began by his predecessors, would attend to the recommendation of his own political Friend, that he would gratify the men of letters in Ireland and in this country, and would also make to historical students throughout Europe a gift which they would receive most thankfully. He had looked with anxiety to see a vote proposed to Parliament for this creditable object. None such, had however, been taken: and the Appropriation Act was now on the table, and was about to be read a third time that night. But his noble Friend was doubtless aware (though not long connected with the Treasury), that he had contingent funds at his command that might be employed in this service, and they could not be employed in a better one. With these closing observations, he would ask his noble Friend whether he had considered the report addressed to Lord Clarendon by Dr. Todd and Dr. Grace, on the subject of the ancient Irish manuscript laws, and whether he was disposed to recommend their publication at the public expense? The noble Lord concluded by moving— That there he laid before the House, Copy of the Report of the Commissioners appointed by the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to inquire concerning the ancient Laws and Institutes of Ireland: and also, Copy of the Letter from the Chief or Under Secretary for Ireland forwarding the same to the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury.

The EARL of DERBY

admitted that the subject to which the noble Lord had referred was one of great interest, and he might say of no inconsiderable importance; but, in consequence of the pressure of business during the Session, he had not been able to give that attention to the subject which it deserved. After the prorogation he and the Government would turn their attention to the subject, in the hope of being able to attain the object which his noble Friend had in view. With regard to the Motion now made by his noble Friend, he believed—indeed, he was sure —that no further communications had taken place since the production of the report.

LORD MONTEAGLE

, after the statement just made, would withdraw his Motion leaving the matter with confidence in the hands of his noble Friend, whose reply was as favourable as under the circumstances he had any right to expect.

Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn.