§ EARL FITZWILLIAMsaid, he was entrusted with a petition from Cork to which he was desirous of drawing their Lordships' attention. He was not sure whether the petition could be received, as it was informal to refer to a Bill that was under consideration in the other House, and had not as yet come up to their Lordships' House. The petitioners prayed that that measure, which they designated one of pains and penalties against their religion, might not be passed into a law. He did not think that the Bill referred to deserved to be so entitled. He approved of that measure as it was originally framed, but his further approval of it must depend on whether that measure would ultimately be rendered effective for its purpose. He considered that the assumption of those titles was calculated to produce the most baneful effects in this country, which had shown how strongly it felt upon this subject. It was not from indignation at the conduct of the Pope that he was desirous for effective legislation against his late aggression. It was because he thought that the act so done by the Pope had a tendency to advance what he would be disposed to designate, if he were not restrained by the presence of certain Roman Catholic Peers present, a corrupted form of Christianity. Because he desired to preserve the character of his own religion, he was anxious to legislate upon this subject. But if we legislated at all, it most be effectually. He learned, through the ordinary channels of information, that from that Bill it was proposed to exclude those clauses which were calculated to give it effect; he had also ascertained that such a proposition was not forced upon the framers of the Bill by any strong adverse majority upon the subject. 1240 On the contrary, the feelings of the other House of Parliament were plainly expressed by the fact of nearly 400 persons having voted for the introduction of the Bill, when there were only about 60 persons found voting against such legislation. It appeared, however, that now when the measure had advanced to a certain stage, that those parts of the Bill to which he had referred were to be struck out. The result would be, that the Bill would amount only to a simple declaration that the Roman Catholic hierarchy were not to be permitted to use certain ecclesiastical titles in the united kingdom. He was astonished to hear that such a course was to be taken by the very authors of the Bill. If such a Bill passed, it would be deprived of the means of carrying its principles into effect; and instead of its authors being entitled—as otherwise they would have been—to the gratitude and respect of the country, they will be responsible for having involved the Legislature in disgrace, and for exposing it to the ridicule and contempt of the entire world. If the measure passed without those clauses which it was proposed should be struck out, both the Parliament and the Government will have disappointed the hopes and expectations of the nation at large. Having felt it his duty to make these observations, he wished to ask whether it was really true that it was the intention of those who had the conduct of the measure in the other House of Parliament to frame it so as to deprive it of all its executory principle? If the Government thought that such a measure would satisfy the country, he would venture to assure them that they grievously misunderstood the opinions and feelings of the people. He admired the Roman Catholics for the tenacity with which they had adhered to their religion through good report and evil report; but he warned the Government and that House not to let them advance further in their encroachments here, if they wished to preserve its character of a Protestant country. What was the ground stated by the Bishop of Rome himself for the issuing of his late brief? What was the object which he had in view? It was that the Roman Catholic religion might be so advanced and fostered in this country that it might ultimately become the religion of the Sovereign. He should have been disposed to say, in the preamble of the Bill, that a gross insult had been offered by the Pope to the religion and Sovereign of this country; and he would declare by 1241 the Bill itself that no title, civil or ecclesiastical, should be conferred upon any person within the united kingdom without the consent of Her Majesty. In taking such a course, he felt that he was adopting the best means for the preservation of that religion which he considered the best for the peace and happiness of the people. He called upon Her Majesty's Ministers not to be treacherous to themselves, but to act upon those principles with which they had identified themselves, and which were so essential for the maintenance of religious freedom and good order in this country.
§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEunderstood that his noble Friend had intended to present a petition, which he, however, very properly stated could not in point of form be laid upon their Lordships' table. He supposed his noble Friend had made those observations with the view of affording himself an opportunity of putting a question to the Governments—namely, whether any alterations had been or were intended to be made in a Bill which had been introduced into the other House of Parliament. He could have no hesitation in shortly stating that certain alterations had been, or rather were intended to be, made, as had been already announced, in the Bill. But how far these alterations in any degree or in any way affected the principle of this measure, was a question which their Lordships would have to consider when the Bill came up from the other House. He could only say he believed that these alterations would not materially affect the principle of the Bill, and he considered that his noble Friend had entirely misapprehended that principle by the mode in which he discussed it. This, however, was a question for future consideration and discussion.
§ EARL FITZWILLIAMThe alterations do not affect the principle of the Bill. But they do this—they render extremely doubtful a most important point—namely, whether that principle will be effective or ineffective; that is the question.
§ House adjourned to Thursday next.