Lords Sitting of 14 July 1851

MINUTES.
Took the Oaths—The Lord Harris. Public Bills.—1a United Church of England and Ireland; Churches and Chapels (Ireland); Ecclesiastical Residences (Ireland); Militia Ballots Suspension; Woods, Forests, &c.; Court of Chancery and Judicial Committee.
2a Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction; Highway Rates; Loan Societies; General Board of Health.
3a Lodging Houses.

BUILDING FOR THE EXHIBITION OF THE WORKS OF INDUSTRY OF ALL NATIONS.
LORD CAMPBELLpresented a petition against the continuance of the Crystal Palace. His Lordship stated that the first name on the list was that of his learned Brother (Mr. Justice Cresswell), a lawyer, a scholar, and a gentleman who was an ornament to his profession and his country; and, amongst other names of the greatest respectability and distinction were those of the venerable mother of the Earl of Clarendon, and of the sister of Lord Auckland. The petitioners expressed a wish, which he believed was unanimous amongst persons of all classes, always excepting some publicans and keepers of beerhouses, who profited by the crowd of visitors, that at the termination of the Exhibition the Crystal Palace might appear only in history; and several clergymen joined in the prayer of the petition, who desired for the sake of morality, that the Commissioners should not be absolved from the solemn pledge which they had given that the building should be removed within a given time after it had fulfilled the purpose to which it was destined. An active agitation was going on upon this question at present, the ground of which, he believed, was that the health and enjoyment of the people would be promoted by allowing the Crystal Palace to remain in its place. But, upon this point, their Lordships might permit him to quote a passage from an article

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in the last number of the Quarterly Review, which was evidently the composition of a gentleman who was profoundly versed in literature, as well as skilled in science. The writer said—
"Were the Crystal Palace to be kept up in spite of rather strong pledges, and, as some prophesy, to present us by and by with a wilderness of walks meandering through bowers of exotic bloom, it would be the most insalubrious promenade in London; the rather and choicer the Flora, the less entitled to rivet your admiration, young ladies! On a sultry summer's day, fairly divided between heavy showers and scorching sunshine, you have seen a bottle of claret—or the decanter to which it ought not to have been transferred—or a caraffe of water from the deep well—brought into your dear papa's comfortable dining room; before it stood long on the table the bright glass was dim, and soon down trickled the dew-drops, running races which should reach the bottom first; well, permit us paternal reviewers to whisper that after half an hour's walk through the frosty air you are the cool claret bottle, or the caraffe of spring water, when you enter the seductive orchid house. The dew does not run off your encasing integuments, but it saturates them. You might almost as wisely take a walk on the floor of the aquarium as here. If you doubt our word, go and stand before the nearest kitchen fire, and see how you will reek and steam. What would your mamma say—what would Sir—or Dr.—, who has taken such pains with you, think if you were to spend two or three hours in the laundry during the height of the engagement on a washing day? As you happen to have lungs and a skin, it matters not what you are looking at, as long as the atmosphere is the same—whether at the brightest of flowers or the most prismatic of soap bubbles. No indoor promenade should tell more forcibly on the hygrometer, or indicate the dew point with greater suddenness, than a common sitting room. But in this arid climate, oven the camellia casts off its blossom buds. It disinherits its own lovely offspring, and rejects them with as decided a scorn as if it had discovered that it was producing a crop of Hygeian pills instead of pure ornaments for innocent beauties. The climate of the orange, not that of the camellia, may do for a winter garden. If ever our admirable palace of glass becomes a showy, steamy, suffocating Jardin d'Hiver, it will be a capital thing for the apothecaries; such a vigorous crop of colds, coughs, and consumptions will be raised, that it will be the walk, if not the dance of death, to frequent it."
That was the testimony given by an impartial writer against the visionary scheme of Mr. Paxton, who talked of transferring to this country the sunny clime of Southern Italy. For his own part, if the Crystal Palace were to be retained at all, he (Lord Campbell) thought it would be best to convert it into an enormous shower bath; for, however admirably adapted it was to the purposes for which it was intended, it had now become essentially necessary to elevate umbrellas inside the building whenever
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a shower of rain came on. That would probably be the last time that he should have the opportunity of raising his voice on the subject, for he should be obliged to leave town early to-morrow in the discharge of his duty to administer justice to Her Majesty's subjects; but he would leave the matter in their Lordships' hands without any fear, because he did not believe that the two Houses of Parliament would assume the functions of his Holiness the Pope, and absolve Governments and individuals from the solemn promises which they had given.
Petition ordered to lie on the table.

BOOTY IN THE PUNJAB.
The EARL of ELLENBOROUGHrose to put a question to the noble Lord the President of the Board of Control respect-in the booty taken in the Punjab, amounting, he believed, to 131,000 l. He wished to know what had been done with it? Had the Directors of the East India Company memoraliscd the Crown for the distribution of it among the army?
LORD BROUGHTONwas understood to reply that that was the course which had been pursued by the East India Company, except that the Directors had sent their memorial, in the first instance, to the Lords of the Treasury.

HORFIELD MANOR ESTATE.
The BISHOP of OXFORDrose to move for the production of certain papers containing the Correspondence which had passed between the Copyhold Commissioners and the Ecclesiastical Commissioners touching the Horfield Manor Estate. His motive in calling for these papers was to avail himself of the opportunity of stating before their Lordships and before the country certain facts regarding recent transactions relating to the Horfield estate, which appeared to him to have been grievously misstated, in a manner to damage the character of a right rev. Friend of his who was now absent on the Continent, and was prevented from returning immediately in consequence of indisposition. He mentioned the fact of the illness of his right rev. Brother, not for the sake of predisposing their Lordships to a favourable judgment of his case, because he thought it needed no such partial view; he did it simply to bespeak their kind attention for himself, who was about to lay before their Lordships the case of an absent and calumniated brother. He should not trou-

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ble the House with any remarks on the mode in which the charges to which he was about to refer had been made, the motives which dictated them, or the persons who had brought them forward. He believed that if he were to indulge in any such remarks, he should have to condemn himself for what he condemned in the authors of those charges, namely, that they had made them in a place and under circumstances which prevented the possibility of an answer. He should take it for granted, therefore, that every misstatement of which he should complain, had been accidental, and that the motives of the accuser had been of the purest and most unimpeachable character. He had to deal with facts, and to convince their Lordships, and through them the country, that those facts had been thus misstated. The shortest and simplest way in which the question could be treated was this:—He would first state what the charges were which had been preferred against his right rev. Friend; he would then put the House fully in possession of the facts by stating what he considered to be the true view of the case; and he would afterwards give the proofs which he had by him to show that his view was the correct one. Now, the charge was to this effect—that when the see of Bristol was united to the see of Gloucester, the property of the see of Bristol was, under power given by Acts of Parliament, made over to the new Bishop of the united sees of Gloucester and Bristol; that one property, named Horfield Manor, stood, if not legally, yet equitably and morally, upon a different footing from any other property belonging to the see of Bristol; and that his right rev. Friend the present Bishop of the united sees of Gloucester and Bristol, on taking possession of that see, was perhaps equitably, but certainly morally, bound not to deal with that estate in the same manner as with the rest of the property belonging to the see, but to deal with it on different principles altogether. The charge was, that under such obligations, his right rev. Friend, when he became bishop of the united sees, had first endeavoured to sell his right in that estate of Horfield to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners; that the Ecclesiastical Commissioners—as it was suggested, in order to prevent a great scandal—consented to the bishop's proposal; that an agreement, which was at first intended to be private, was entered into for the transfer of that property for a fixed sum; that the solicitor
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of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners felt so ashamed of the transaction that he refused to incur the responsibility of carrying it out; that thereupon he was directed by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners to prepare a scheme for the purpose of procuring an Order in Council to sanction the transfer; that upon its being applied for, a Member of the other House, who had discovered this treachery, called the attention, first of the Attorney General, and afterwards of the First Lord of the Treasury, to the job which was about to be perpetrated; and that, owing to the watchfulness and readiness of that noble Lord to prevent it, it was defeated, and the right rev. Prelate lost his bargain; that then the bishop did nothing until the last life named in the lease dropped, and that he then granted a fresh lease, his own secretary being the lessee, and his own children being the three lives put into the lease; and that the right rev. Prelate by so doing had violated his implied, if not his express engagement. He (the Bishop of Oxford) begged their Lordships to remark the full amount of the imputation contained in those charges. It would not do to make imputations of the gravest possible nature, and then to ride off on another charge; but in this case it had been stated that "no man except a dignitary of the Church would dare to carry out such a transaction, and afterwards show his face in public as an honest man." Now, what he (the Bishop of Oxford) begged to state in answer to these charges was this, that the Bishop of Gloucester received that estate of Horfield upon precisely the same footing that he received the other estates belonging to the see of Bristol; that there was no understanding, direct or indirect, in reference to that estate; that in dealing with that estate he was not violating any honourable understanding made either by himself or his predecessor in the sec; that he did what the Legislature intended him to do with every property of the see over which he was placed; that he had entered into a negotiation with the Ecclesiastical Commissioners respecting the disposal of it of his own free will and accord; that his object, in wishing to carry out that negotiation, was, as he would show hereafter, a singularly liberal thing—that it had been defeated on a mere point of technicality by the law officers of the Crown—that he had never said to any man that he would not lease that estate—that he had always been ready to lease it on certain conditions bene-

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ficial to the Church and to the estate itself—that he had now leased it for three lives to his own secretary as a means of retaining in his own hands the full and entire control and direction of it—and that he had thus taken measures to carry out his own liberal policy, although he would not state what the objects of that policy were, lest they should seem to be the effect of pressure from without, rather than of his own liberal and ingenuous disposition. That was his case. Whether his right rev. Friend had adopted the wisest and most prudent course in carrying out this liberal intention was another question, upon which he (the Bishop of Oxford) would not then pronounce an opinion. It might be the best, or it might not; but he thought he should be able to show their Lordships that it subjected his right rev. Friend to no possible just imputation upon his liberality of intention. Now for the proof. The statement was, that first of all his right rev. Friend was, as to this estate of Horfield, differently situated from other properties belonging to the see, because two of his predecessors had refused to renew the lease on the dropping in of the lives, with the view of allowing it to fall in for the benefit of the Church, and that therefore his right rev. Friend was bound in like manner to allow the lease to drop. The first of these was Bishop Gray. He (the Bishop of Oxford) stated advisedly that, amongst many cases of misrepresentation, he had never heard of one in which every single incident had been so misrepresented and twisted to a false issue as in the present instance. The first statement was, that when the first life of the lease dropped, Bishop Gray thought that he might renew, but that when two dropped in, he thought that he ought not to do so. Now, what was the fact? No negotiation took place between Bishop Gray and his lessee until after the second life had dropped. Next, there never was any breaking off of that negotiation, but Bishop Gray died while it was still going on; and there was the testimony of Dr. Shadwell to prove that all the difficulties attending the transaction had been cleared away, and that the renewal would have been completed if it had not been for the death of Bishop Gray. Well, his death then took place; and the next statement was, that Bishop Gray's determination having been made known to Lord Melbourne, he told it to his successor, Bishop Allen, on his appointment, and stipulated
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with him that he should not renew, and that Bishop Allen gave a pledge to that effect. Now, in the first place, Bishop Allen himself stated—this he mentioned on the authority of the Bishop of Gloucester, who might be considered an interested party—but Bishop Allen himself told the Bishop of Gloucester that Lord Melbourne informed him that his attention had been called to the matter, but that he saw no reason for putting any impediment in the way of the renewal of the lease, and that he would leave him at liberty to act as he might think best; and in fact Bishop Allen was himself in treaty for a renewal of the lease when he was translated to the bishopric of Ely. What was the proof of this? In the first place, he had the statement of Mr. Charles Clarke, an eminent solicitor of Bristol, to prove that his father was the confidential agent of Bishop Allen, and was employed by him to renew the lease; and two of the witnesses before the Committee on Church Leases (1838) a witness (Mr. V. Stuckney) stated that—"The two late bishops (Gray and Allen) refused to renew because the lessee refused to give the fine they asked." And at pages 294 and 295 of the same report, another witness (Mr. J. P. Sturge) stated that—"There was a negotiation between the late Bishop of Bristol (Bishop Allen) and the lessee, but they could not agree." And, again, the same witness further stated that the renewal was one "in which the bishop and the lessee could not agree as to the amount (of fine), and consequently no renewal was made." Thus the declaration of his right rev. Friend the Bishop of Gloucester was corroborated by two witnesses of unimpeachable character. The next statement was, that in 1842 it began to be rumoured that the present bishop was about to renew the lease; and that the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, upon hearing the rumours, desired their secretary to write to the bishop on the subject, expressing a hope that the reports were unfounded; that the bishop replied that he felt aggrieved by the supposition that he entertained thoughts of renewing; and that if he did so, he should be doing something unbecoming a bishop, and would be leaving a lasting reproach to his family. He (the Bishop of Oxford) believed that that quotation from the reply of the bishop had been one of the main things that had stamped disgrace and odium upon his right rev. Friend; and he would now assert, first, that after going through every document

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in the Ecclesiastical Commission Office, no communication of any kind had passed between the Commissioners or their secretary and the Bishop of Gloucester, in the year 1842, or for five years afterwards; so misinformed were those who had put forward these statements. But that was not all; and now he begged their Lordships to notice what did happen. In 1847 new schemes were being carried out by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners as to the sums to be charged upon future vacancies upon bishoprics, and amongst others upon the bishopric of Gloucester and Bristol. It was made to appear to them that the see of Bristol would bear a larger future charge than had been put upon it. They, therefore, passed an order putting that larger charge upon it, and resolved upon taking this estate of Horfield upon the next avoidance of the see to the Episcopal Fund of the Commission. Accordingly, this resolution was intimated to the bishop, and he felt considerable annoyance at it, because he thought the arrangement would be unfair, not to himself, because it did not affect him, but to his successors, who, he thought, would be left poorer than they ought to be. And then, in 1847, there did happen a communication between the solicitor of the bishop on the one side, and the solicitor of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners on the other, which related solely to the manner in which the arrangement could be satisfactorily carried out; but there was no hint in any one word, either on the side of the Commissioners or on the side of the Bishop, that there was anything like moral obligation one way or the other involved in the question of renewal. But there was an answer of the bishop upon which this misrepresentation had been based. The bishop, from the day that he had taken possession of the see, felt that the peculiar tenure of the Horfield estate was a most injurious tenure to the Church, because it prevented improvements being carried out; and therefore he stated that he never intended to renew the lease upon the terms upon which it had hitherto been granted; but he never gave the least hint in the world of not granting a different kind of lease. The ground of the words of which use had been made was this. The bishop addressed a letter to the Commissioners, in which, after having stated that he felt considerable annoyance at the Commissioners not communicating with himself, instead of sending their solicitor to his solicitor, he proceeded to say—
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"I learn that a report of my intention to re-grant this lease for lives as heretofore has been several times matter of conversation at the board, and has been spoken of in terms of condemnation. Of the existence of the report I was aware, as well as of its origin; the authority being certain printed evidence given before the Ecclesiastical Leases Committee of the House of Commons some years ago, by a land surveyor of this neighbourhood, who stated that he understood such to be the intention of the bishop. [This person, to whom I never spoke, is notorious for his unfriendliness to the Church and Churchmen.] His assertion, as coming from an individual who could know nothing about me, I treated like a newspaper report, with silent contempt. To have noticed it publicly at the time would have been thought by some presumptuous, by other ridiculous. However, the manner in which I spoke of this evidence in conversation is at least a proof that I did not meditate acting the very part which he had assigned me."
It had been stated that there was a blank after the word "very," which was intended to be filled up with "disgraceful," or "shameful," or some word to that effect. Now he (the Bishop of Oxford) could assure their Lordships that there was neither blank, omission, nor erasure at the word "very;" that the words followed each other in the closest contact. It was this letter, written in 1847, which had been assigned by the accusers of the right rev. Prelate to the year 1842; and hence the obloquy thrown on his right rev. Friend by those who took it for granted that he had written, "I am sorry the Commissioners should suspect me of acting so very—a part," and hence the fine embellishments about blanks and erasures of Mr. Horsman. The sense was distinct, and it was clear that he did not meditate acting the part attributed to him. There was nothing like an intimation that the bishop thought it was a disgraceful thing to renew the three lives. The charge proceeded to state that—
"Under these circumstances the Ecclesiastical Commissioners were surprised, at the commencement of 1848, by reciving a communication from the Bishop of Gloucester, stating his intention to renew the lease, and giving them the refusal of it for the sum of 11,500 l. The Ecclesiastical Commissioners desired their Secretary to write to the Bishop, reminding him of the moral obligation he was under not to renew the lease. The Bishop answered that he knew nothing of any moral obligations; that he had a legal right; and if the Commissioners did not choose to pay him 11,500 l., he would renew the lease, and alienate the property from the Church."
Now no such letter was written by the Secretary, and no such answer was sent by the Bishop. But the case was still stronger, for instead of the Ecclesiastical Commis-

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sioners having been surprised at hearing a rumour of the bishop's intention, the real fact was that they themselves received, in February, 1848, a communication from the Bishop of Gloucester, stating his intention to renew the lease, and opening a negotiation with them, offering to part to them his interest in this estate of Horfield Manor. The Commissioners having taken the property in reversion, and the bishop thinking it was for the good of the Church that they should have it at once, and carry out the improvement he had intended, offered to part with his interest to them. That letter was received on the 21st of February, and on the 24th it was referred to a select committee of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, not very likely either to perpetrate or connive at a job, as Sir J. Graham was its Chairman. On the 4th of March this letter was transmitted from that Committee to his right rev. Friend: "Your letter has just been brought before the Finance Committee, who felt strongly the liberality of your offer." This was the letter which was said to have been a gentle reminder from the Secretary of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of the moral obligation which his right rev. Friend was ignoring. The negotiation then went on. They had been told that "the Ecclesiastical Commissioners had agreed most improperly to deal with the bishop, and to pay him 11,500 l.; that they endeavoured, not openly, but privately, to arrange the transfer; that the deed of transfer was submitted to their solicitor, who refused to incur the responsibility of being a party to it." Now, how stood the facts? The Commissioners being satisfied that there was neither legal, equitable, nor moral restraint, came to the unanimous resolution that the bishop was not bound to deal differently with this from any other property, and they drew a plan transferring it to themselves, and passed a resolution, and sent it, not to the solicitor, but to an eminent conveyancer, Mr. Dugmore, requesting him to advise by what legal document the conveyance of the Horfield Manor estate could be made from the Bishop to the Commissioners. His answer was that by the provisions of the statute of the 13th of Elizabeth, which had never been repealed, it would be necessary to do it, not by a simple conveyance, but by an Order in Council. And yet it was made an insinuation against the Ecclesiastical Commissioners and his right rev. Friend, that they were prevented from carrying out this
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job by the watchfulness of a Member of the other House. The Order in Council, having been drawn out, was sent in May to the law officers of the Crown to be approved. It was considered by them for a month, and then they returned it, stating that they saw a legal difficulty, in consequence of the act of the Commissioners, in transferring the estate after the next avoidance, and on that ground the Order in Council was defeated. The bishop naturally felt that he might be maligned on the ground that the negotiation had failed, and he called upon the Commissioners to express their opinion upon the subject; and at a very large meeting of the Board, at which were present not only the late Archbishop of Canterbury and a great number of right rev. Prelates, but also the Earl of Harrowby, Sir James Graham, and Mr. Goulburn, a resolution was unanimously carried, of which he would read an extract from the minutes of a general meeting, held on Thursday, the 13th of July, 1848:—
"Present—the Archbishop of Canterbury (in the chair), the Earl of Harrowby, the Bishop of London, the Bishop of Durham, the Bishop of Chichester, the Bishop of Gloucester and Bristol, the Bishop of Oxford, the Bishop of Salisbury, the Right Hon. Henry Goulburn, the Right Hon. Sir James R. G. Graham. The Bishop of Gloucester and Bristol having pressed the Board to an early settlement of the pending negotiation concerning the Horfield estate, and expressed his desire to be set free from his agreement, unless it can be speedily arranged, it was, after full discussion and reference to the secretary, resolved, 'That the Bishop of Gloucester and Bristol, having been under no obligation, legal or equitable, to deal with the Horfield estate otherwise than with any other estate of his see, and having made with regard to it liberal offers to the Board, the Board are anxious to avoid all needless delay in bringing the negotiation to a close, and desire their secretary to communicate this wish to the law officers of the Crown."
The remaining charge was, that, on the dropping of the last life, the bishop had renewed the lease in the way he had said he would never renew it. Now, how was that? If his right rev. Friend had renewed that lease by selling it to a second party, as was commonly the case, allowing him to put three lives upon it, he would have done the thing he said he would not do; but he put in his secretary as a nominal lessee to represent himself, and he then filled up the lease with three lives in order to retain full power over it, so as to carry out the improvements which, from first to last, had been his object. He now possessed the power to determine that lease

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whenever he thought proper, and was able to carry out all the improvements he desired. He had already laid out a large sum in enfranchising the copyhold. He had received nothing, but spent much, and to avoid the reproach of grasping, he gave up a living which he held in commendam of the same value as what he would have received from this estate. But it was said that his children would have the benefit of the estate for three lives, while he had only given up the commendam which he held for his own life. Now when the bishop was in negotiation with the Commissioners for selling his interest in the Horfield estate, the terms were 11,500 l. So fully was it believed that the scheme would be carried into effect, that the purposes of the bishop with regard to it became accidentally known, in consequence of which an official statement was made to his clergy as to the manner in which he intended to appropriate that sum. Some years before he lent, out of his own private fortune, 5,000 l. for
the purpose of establishing an educational institution in the neighbourhood of Bristol, which appeared to be very desirable. He had not given it, because he thought it would not be just to his children, but he advanced it on the condition that his children should receive it back again. Recent circumstances had made it very problematical whether it would ever be repaid, and he therefore arranged, that if his family did not receive back this sum of 5,000 l., 5,000 l. of the 11,500 l. he was to receive for the Horfield estate should go to repay his family, and the 6,500 l. should go to endow small livings in the diocese of Bristol. Now he would ask their Lordships, as honourable men, whether the man who intended so to appropriate the money, should be treated as if he were avariciously disposing of this estate for his own selfish advantage? And he would ask their Lordships one other question—whether, if this accusation of baseness had been brought against them, if they had been so pursued by the envenomed tooth of slander, he would ask, if they cared for their honour, would any of them have made public their liberal intentions when such false charges were made? That was the state of things. This was not an alienation from the Church. The property was in the power of his right rev. Friend, and, from his experience of the past, he was confident it might be safely left to his honourable intentions. His right rev. Friend stated that he had taken
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this course because he knew of only three modes of dealing with the property. One was, that he might have let it during his incumbency, in which case it would have deteriorated in value every year, from the impossibility of carrying out the necessary improvements; secondly, if he had let it for twenty-one years, he would have been prevented by the copyholder from carrying out his improvements; and he said the only other thing was to fill it up in the way he had done for three lives, not taking a fine and alienating it from the Church, but putting in one who only represented him as a trustee, and so enabling him to carry out his intentions. He (the Bishop of Oxford) had told his right rev. Friend that if he would communicate to him in a written form what his intentions were, he would lay them before their Lordships; and what did their Lordships think was his reply? He would read it to them:—
"Those who know me will believe that the same feelings animate me now as before; but I will not at this time enter into any promises or engagements. Those who wish to know my particular views and intentions must infer them from what I have already done. Spectemur agendo. I have surrendered an equivalent church income. I have expended a good deal, and have committed myself to expend a good deal more in the permanent improvement of property to which the reversioners contribute nothing, and I have signified my intention to endow the living at the first avoidance with the rentcharge. It is true that I have ulterior views, should my life be spared long enough; but I will not specify them, nor will I at the present time make the least further promise or engagement. You know the bitter and unscrupulous warfare by which I am assailed. It is impossible for me to say or do anything, however disinterested, to which a bad colour would not be given; and were I to make any promise with regard to Horfield at the present moment, it would infallibly be attributed to fear of him who has determined, per fas atque nefas, to destroy my character."
His right rev. Friend called on their Lordships to judge from his past actions what his future would be, if he were left free from the venomous poison which had so long embittered his life. He (the Bishop of Oxford) thanked their Lordships for the indulgent kindness with which they had heard him. He could assure them that the expression of their sympathy would be dear to his right rev. Brother, who, without friends or patronage, had, by the force of his learning and ability, raised himself to eminence in the Church and in society; who had been, in his diocese and among those who had known him, remarkable for nothing more than his openhanded libe-

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rality; who, absent from his country, sick in body and depressed in spirit—at an age almost reaching the period assigned to man, was unable to defend himself in person against the unrelenting persecution to which he had been so long exposed; and who, under the unexampled misrepresentation of which he had been made the victim, would feel it one of his highest gratifications to know that this statement had been made openly before the country, and to find that he still retained the love and admiration of their Lordships.
The BISHOP of LONDONsaid, that, after the able and feeling address of his right rev. Friend, he would only add that, from a long and intimate acquaintance of more than five-and-forty years with the right rev. Prelate, the subject of this discussion, he felt justified in asserting, without fear of being contradicted, that their Lordships and the country might safely leave the interests of the Church, so far as they were connected with this question, in the hands of the right rev. Prelate, with the assurance that he would do that which was just and true; and that as informer years a deserved reproach had never been cast upon him, so in the remainder of his days he would do nothing to discredit the character of a well-spent and virtuous life.
LORD CAMPBELLcould not refrain from expressing his satisfaction at the well-proved statement of his right rev. Friend, which must remove from the minds of their Lordships and of the public every particle of suspicion that might have been supposed to exist. He had enjoyed the friendship of the Bishop of Gloucester for a great many years. He had always considered him one of the most kindhearted and generous of men, and it would have surprised him indeed if on this occasion his right rev. Friend had forfeited the character he had hitherto sustained. It turned out that there was not the smallest ground for the imputation which had been cast upon him. It all rested on this false statement—that his right rev. Friend had received the estate of Horfield under different circumstances from that relating to any other property belonging to the see. His right rev. Friend had demonstrated that there was not the smallest pretence for such a statement, and that his right rev. Friend had as much right to grant a lease for three lives of this property as their Lordships had to grant a lease of any other property. That being so, it appeared that a most cruel and unfounded
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attack had been made on his right rev. Friend, arising from his generosity in undertaking to give more than one-half of the premium he was entitled to receive, for the purpose of ecclesiastical endowment. It happened, too, that the present Bishop of Gloucester had consecrated more churches in his diocese than had been consecrated within that diocese from the dawn of the Reformation until his appointment; and had contributed most liberally to all charitable purposes. He would transmit to his children the fair fame which he now enjoyed, and which they would consider a richer inheritance than any wealth which he might bequeath to them.
The EARL of HARROWBYsaid, he would bear witness to the perfect correctness of all the facts connected with the Ecclesiastical Commissioners to which the right rev. Prelate had referred. The Bishop of Gloucester was under no obligation, legal or equitable, in any way to deal with this property otherwise than with other parts of the property in this see; and he was much surprised to hear the statement that the Bishop had in this instance departed from that line of conduct by which he had hitherto been distinguished. Having had the happiness of living in his diocese, he could bear testimony to the right rev. Prelate's acts of kindness and liberality. He was content to leave the matter entirely in his hands, being fully conscious that he would use this property in the most advantageous way for the interests of the Church. He could not understand the conduct of Gentlemen professing themselves attached members of the Church, whilst they were doing all in their power on every occasion to assume everything evil in the conduct of the heads of that Church. He considered the whole matter perfectly clear, and that the right rev. Prelate had been actuated by no other motive than a desire to promote the interests of the Church.
On Question, agreed to.

COURT OF CHANCERY AND JUDICIAL COMMITTEE BILL.
The MARQUESS of LANDOWNE, having moved the First Reading of this Bill,
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, that as he should not have an opportunity of again addressing their Lordships during the present Session, he would take this occasion to state his approval of this Bill. It was certainly unusual to make any statement on the first reading of a Bill, but he had

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had occasion to deviate from that practice more than once with respect to Law Bills, in order to obtain a discussion, and, as the result of that discussion, the opinion and assistance of professional men in various parts of the country. He approved of the Bill as far as it went, and considered it a step in the right direction; but in Committee he trusted some changes would be made; and there was one change to which he wished particularly to call the attention of his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack, namely, with respect to the branch of the Bill that referred to the administration of justice in the appellate tribunal of the Privy Council. There were two matters which ought to be carefully considered respecting the Judicial Committee, before passing this Bill into a law. The first was whether the quorum ought to be reduced, as this Bill proposed, from four to three. He entertained a very strong opinion in favour of four. All the experience of Westminster Hall was strongly and clearly, and upon the soundest reasons of practice as well as of principle, in favour of four Judges, in preference to three; and the reason was this, that on all great occasions, where there was a decision at all, there was the great authority of a majority of three to one. If that was reckoned essential in Courts of the first instance, how much more material was it to clothe with authority the decisions of the Court of Appellate Jurisdiction, deciding in the last resort the most important questions, and whose decisions nothing short of an Act of Parliament could affect? The other point, which he hoped would not fail to receive attentive consideration, was the propriety, not to say necessity, of giving a constant President or presiding Judge to that Judicial Committee. A lay President of the Council, although admirably discharging his functions where no very nice or difficult question of law arose, could not be expected to feel any confidence in his own opinion, or take any part in discussions of that description. That there should be a President answerable, more or less, for the regulation of the proceedings, the attendance of the Court, and the distribution of the business, had been admitted from the first time that he proposed this measure, and obtained the concurrence of their Lordships and the other House to its passing. A Vice-President of the Council, or some such officer, had been more than once recommended, but the recommendation had not been carried
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into effect. His noble and learned Friend who succeeded him (Lord Lyndhurst), had been so clearly of this opinion, that he and the noble and gallant Duke, in 1841, had done him the honour to press the acceptance of this place upon him, which he had declined merely for reasons personal to himself, as indeed both Lord Lyndhurst and himself had formerly stated to their Lordships. With regard to the former point he had omitted one subject, namely, that when the Court consisted of an even number, the decision might be two against two; but during a sitting of eighteen years in the Judicial Committee, that accident had happened only once, and nothing would be easier to prevent such an accident than by calling in of one or more other members, a facility not enjoyed by the Courts of Westminster Hall. With respect to the other parts of the Bill, he generally approved of them. There might be some difficulty with respect to the Court of Chancery. When only two Judges sat on an appeal from the Vice-Chancellor or the Master of the Rolls, the decision might be formed in such a manner as to lead to an appeal. There were some other difficulties, such as taking the Chancellor away from his court for the purpose of attending the House of Lords or the Judicial Committee; but these defects might be remedied in Committee. There was one defect in the Judicial Committee still unsupplied, to which he begged the attention of his noble Friend. No provision whatever was made with respect to cases which indeed rarely occur, but which have occurred, and which he feared were likely to be more numerous than they had hitherto been—he meant cases involving spiritual questions of a highly important nature, of an exceedingly difficult kind, and, without speaking irreverently, he might add, of an exceedingly obscure nature. The members of the Judicial Committee were admirably adapted to deal with questions of Common Law; well conversant on others with the doctrines of the Consistorial Courts and with the learning of the Civil Law; well adapted to deal with questions of evidence, whether that which was deserving of the name, the evidence taken at Common Law, or that which passed under the name which was taken, or which appeared to be taken, in courts of another description. But with regard to those other matters to which he had adverted, which his noble Friend opposite, the Lord High Commissioner of the

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General Assembly of the Church of Scotland (Lord Belhaven), would admit were spiritually difficult questions, the Judicial Committee had a great authority, no doubt, but moderate sources of information; and his brethren of that Committee had authorised him to confess that with those subjects they felt themselves little fitted to deal. Upon this class of subjects they desiderated not control, but help. Their Lordships did not want a body established which should dictate to them; but they wished to have, what it was right they should have, the aid, the inestimable benefit, of the assistance of men learned in that branch of learning. He hoped, in the further progress of the Bill, or afterwards by a separate measure, the Judicial Committee would be furnished with some such assistant tribunal in spiritual matters, some such aid as Courts of Equity found in the Courts of Law; and that as the Courts of Law were ancillary to those of Equity in this respect, so some Spiritual Court would be ancillary to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in their province. When he said that the present measure was a step in the right direction, he must add that it was not a very long step—it was not at all a stride: but if any man thought that this, or any other structural alteration in the Court of Chancery—if any man dreamed that such a measure laid the axe to the root of the greatest and most grievous of the many crying evils that afflicted the subjects of this country, as regarded the administration of justice, not the Judges or the practitioners, but the unhappy suitors of the court, although he admitted that it would, nevertheless, do justice to the suitor, and enable him to obtain that which he had a right to obtain at a reasonable cost of money, of trouble, and of time—if any dreamer, he repeated, believed that any structural alteration of the Court of Chancery would do all that was wanted, such dreamer was in a fool's paradise, and would awaken to a sad reality that would belie all he had fancied in his slumbers. Why, it would alarm their Lordships to hear some of the proofs which the Committee over which he presided had lately been receiving, of the state of things in all the Courts of Equity, and in all the branches of these Courts. Their Lordships had victims among themselves; and he saw a noble Friend of his then present on the cross benches, who went into Chancery to recover a sum of 500 l., and who had the
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misfortune to deal with an insolvent party and his professional adviser. There being fraud connected with the case, he had to go into Chancery, and 1,200 l. for costs were expended in obtaining that 500 l.! The noble Lord succeeded, and perhaps on tolerably cheap terms, considering what the Court of Chancery was—certainly he had heard of cases where the rate of charge was far higher. But the noble Lord would have been better off by 700 l., had he put up with the loss of the 500 l., and declared that he would not, in order to recover it from the fraud-monger, resort to the law-monger, who had thus turned out far the worse of the two, taking 700 l., when the other had been content with five. In another case, 38,000 l. had to be distributed—merely distributed. There was not a single debt, and there was no dispute; and nineteen out of twenty of the claimants would have been alarmed at the very idea of going into Chancery. It was requisite to take an account; and they said, "Let it be taken by a common accountant, and on no account go into Chancery." But, unhappily, one of the number became bankrupt, and his assignees insisted upon carrying the case into Chancery, It lasted eleven years, from 1840 till 1851, and the costs were 2,827 l.! The system was not confined to great cases—it was equally oppressive in the smallest. An infant was entitled to an income of 155 l. a year. Four years were consumed in Chancery without any opposition or contest, simply in the infant obtaining the income which was his own; and in getting paid out to him those four years' income, 68 l. a year, on an average, was expended in the costs of "common orders, and motions of course." Thus altogether, 270 l. had been expended in costs in a case in which there was no contest, in order to get 620 l. In another case, 10,000 l. were claimed. It went into Chancery in 1835. In 1840, after it had been there five years, a respectable solicitor found it in the Rolls, "set down to be heard," in some way, at some stage or other. It had actually, in five years, by the "forcing process" of the Court of Chancery, ripened so prematurely, that it was "set down for a hearing," in 1841; and the solicitor gave evidence of the case in that year, before the Committee of Lord Cottenham. Well, their Lordships would scarcely credit it, that same solicitor was, last Tuesday, examined before the Committee, over which he (Lord Brougham) had the ho-

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nour to preside, about that same suit; and stated that it was "in the Rolls;" just set down again for a hearing—another hearing of some other sort! And it would take at least five years more before it was "ripe" for final settlement. Why, just conceive the claimant to have been a young man wanting the money to start in life—unable to obtain it—obliged to start without it; suppose for India. In 1840, let it be supposed, the man starts for India, having learnt that the cause, after five years, has just been "set down for hearing in the Rolls." Eleven or twelve years elapse, the man comes home, after much service, and having escaped the risks of sea, and of climate, and of war, and inquires about his 1,000 l. and the cause. "Oh, it is just set down for hearing in the Rolls!" "In the Rolls!" he might exclaim; "why, I left it there twelve years ago." "Well, at all events, I hope it is ripe for final decision now?" "Not at all; it will take at least five years further to settle it!" "Oh, I may as well go back to India again!" might the poor claimant exclaim. And nearly 2,000 l. had already been expended in recovering that 1.000 l.—rabout200 percent. Why, well might the man exclaim, "Let me go back to India! They have cobra de capello there, they have boa constrictors, they have tigers and jungle fevers, and all sorts of horrid chances, but, at all events, they have not this dreadful place, which, as he dared not name, should be nameless. In another instance, stated by one of the taxing masters, Mr. Follett, breather to his late loved and lamented friend, Sir William Follett, there had been 90 l. costs incurred about a question whether 10 l. should be expended in repairing part of a house—a certain necessary place which he would no more name than he would the Court to which he referred. In another instance there had been a reference to the Master for impertinence, that is to say, for the insertion of matter wholly unnecessary to be set out in the proceedings, which, of course, increased the expense. It was a gross and glaring case, and the Master allowed 20 l. to the party complaining, in order to compensate him for the needless costs. The other party appealed to the Vice-Chancellor; the order, after sending the matter back to the Master, and annulling reports, was affirmed. The appellant carried his appeal to the Chancellor; the decree was affirmed. But the matter had now been carried on nearly three
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years, and at an expense to the respondent, the original complainant, of 800 l., of which he only got allowed by the taxing officers, as against the opposite party, 750 l., leaving 50 l. to be paid by himself; so that, deducting the 20 l. allowed by the Court for the impertinence from the 50 l. the party had to pay who had complained of the impertinence, it appeared that he was 30 l. out of pocket, and had better have left the matter alone, to say nothing of the delay and the heavy costs to the other party found to be in the wrong. These were the sort of cases constantly occurring. He need not remind their Lordships of the case mentioned by his noble and learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst), in which that able Judge, Vice-Chancellor Knight Bruce, had held up the voluminous affidavits in a case—nineteen-twentieths of which were superfluous—to the execration of all honest, right-minded men. Nor need he remind them of the case of Day and Martin, in which, out of a fortune of 400,000 l., from 70,000 l. to 80,000 l. had been spent in costs! Was it possible that their Lordships could longer resist the conclusion to which the people had already arrived, that the axe must be laid to the root of these crying and intolerable evils, and that if, to use the words of Lord Chatham as to reforms of another description, "you do not consent to reform yourselves, the people will come in upon you and reform you with a vengeance?" He was not, however, one of those rash and unreflecting reformers to whoso outcries he had often adverted. He had constantly maintained that to make reform salutary you must make it safe, and that to make it safe you must leave it to men of skill, and to men well informed and experienced, and not allow the ill-informed to interfere. But of this he was certain, that in proportion as you delayed reforms which were wanted, and delayed the execution of the duty of looking to the administration of the relief and redress required, the result would be, that by rash and wholesale changes the good would be swept away with the bad, and there would be realised, in respect to our jurisprudence and judicature, not only the vanity and instability of human institutions, but the ruinous folly of those who, from fear of granting a moderate and safe reformation, risk the hazard of rapid and reckless demolition. He would not then consider in what direction the knife should be used, or indicate the measures which he might

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deem necessary, or describe those which were before their Lordships, of some of which he approved (as the Bill now before them, and another before a Select Committee), and as to which he was sanguine in the hope that they would apply a great though not sufficient remedy to the evil. He hoped, however, that instead of stopping there, much time would not elapse before, in addition to those most valuable measures which had been sent from that House during the present Session, and were now passing, he trusted successfully, through the Commons (the Registry Bill, one of the most important ever proposed, the County Courts Extension Bill, and the Law of Evidence Bill)—all of them measures which would greatly diminish the evils to which he had adverted—he hoped that in addition to those the public mind would be directed—as the attention of the most learned in the profession was pointed towards its adoption as far as possible—to the fusion or combination of the systems of law and equity. His hope was, that those who were younger would live, without living very long, to have the happiness of seeing, among others, this great improvement in our jurisprudence, and to find real progress made in the amendment of the law. He apologised for speaking at such length on this stage of the Bill. Nothing should have tempted him to take so unusual a course as to address their Lordships on the Motion that this Bill be read a first time, but that during the last five or six weeks he had with very great difficulty, and against the opinions of his medical advisers, attended the service of their Lordships' House. During the last week or ten days this difficulty had increased, and become more insurmountable. In the hope of assisting in the passing these measures in a cause to which his life had been devoted, he had struggled to the last, until he found that he could struggle no longer. It was with great pain that he was compelled to withdraw himself from their Lordships' House before the close of the Session, when he considered that the great cause of religious liberty, in more shapes than one, was in danger, and when he desired to co-operate in the philanthropic measures of his noble Friend (the Earl of Shaftesbury). It was a great pain to him to leave the service of the House at such a time, but it was his bounden duty no longer to incur the risk which he had not hesitated to run when he thought it absolute-
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ly necessary. The Bills which he had brought in for amending the law had either passed their Lordships' House, or been, from circumstances unconnected with himself, postponed of necessity till next Session. He now had nothing more to do than to thank their Lordships for having heard him so attentively, and respectfully to take his leave of them for this Session.
The LORD CHANCELLORwas extremely glad to find that the Bill now on their Lordships' table met with the approbation of the noble and learned Lord. He would not follow the noble and learned Lord through the statements he had made on other important matters, because the present was not quite the proper occasion for doing so; but he wished to observe, that as he was aware of the many defects in the Court over which he presided—defects which were the growth of time, and which had existed during the period when his noble and learned Friend and others had held the great seal—immediately upon his entering upon the duties of his present office, a selection was made of gentlemen among the most informed at the Chancery Bar, the most alive to the defects in the court, and the most fitted to suggest a remedy; and those gentlemen were called upon to act as a Commission to review the whole system of Chancery practice. They had since been most diligently employed; and his noble and learned Friend being aware of the character and ability of those gentlemen would doubtless derive considerable comfort from the confidence he must entertain, that an inquiry conducted by such gentlemen must be followed by some effective measure of reformation. There was already a report on the table from the Commission, which had reviewed the whole proceedings at Common Law; and a Bill, which he hoped to present to their Lordships before the close of the Session, was being prepared from the materials of that report. It was not likely that a report from the Chancery Commission could be so far advanced as to allow of a similar step being taken with respect to it in the present Session; but it would, so far as it might receive their Lordships' approbation, be most carefully carried into effect. The noble and learned Lord's suggestions with respect to the present Bill, would receive the most careful attention. They had principal reference to the Judical Committee of the Privy Council; but the present Bill addressed itself to the remedy of a particular evil, namely, to prevent the

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recurrence of the inconvenience which was felt to arise last year from the absence of several of the learned Judges in the Courts of Equity in consequence of illness. It did not profess to go further, because, as the commission to which he had alluded was in actual operation, it was thought better to wait for the report with a view of then applying a general remedy for existing defects. Considering that the noble and learned Lord had presided over a Court such as he had described, the details which he had given certainly entitled him to great sympathy.
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, that be had endeavoured to apply as much remedy as he could to the defects which were justly complained of. He should like to know when steps would be taken to turn to public account the Criminal Law Digest. It was thirteen months since that he received a letter from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, stating that no time would be lost in doing so. Were proceedings in respect to that to be conducted with the same snaillike pace as business in the court to which he had just directed their Lordships' attention?
Bill read 1a.
House adjourned till To-morrow.