§ The EARL of HARROWBYHaving seen recently in the public papers a strong desire expressed on the part of many of Her Majesty's Protestant subjects in this country, and more particularly on the part of the Protestant British inhabitants resident within the walls of the city of Rome, for the erection of a place of public worship within the walls of that capital, I am induced to address a question on that subject to the members of Her Majesty's Government. Hitherto the Church of Rome has 1930 refused to grant to the Protestant subjects of Her Majesty permission to erect such a building; but, under existing circumstances, when the Church of Rome is making large claims on the tolerance of this country, and indeed of all other Protestant countries, perhaps the opportunity is not ill chosen to apply again to the Court of Rome for that permission which has hitherto been systematically and pertinaciously refused. Your Lordships are, perhaps, aware of the encouragement which has hitherto been held out by Her Majesty's Government to all our chaplaincies in foreign countries, within which Protestant churches have been established. Without asking the Government for that assistance which has never been refused elsewhere, the parties to whom I have just alluded are anxious to know whether Her Majesty's Ministers will use their best offices with the Court of Rome to obtain from it permission to erect a suitable Protestant Church within the walls of the city of Rome for the worship of the Protestant Church of England?
§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEwas understood to say, that, in consequence of the notice which he had received privately from his noble Friend on this subject, he had made some inquiries regarding it at the Foreign Office. He found that no application had yet been made to the Court of Rome for the erection of a Protestant place of worship within the walls of Rome. It was true that a Protestant place of worship had been erected for British subjects outside the walls of the city of Rome, and that it was adequate for the number of persons who attended Divine service within it. He was confident that when any just complaint should be made on the subject by the British inhabitants of Rome to his noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Foreign Department, his noble Friend would not be slow in making application for its redress. Any application at present for the erection of a permanent building for the celebration of the Protestant service of the Established Church, would not, he was afraid, be attended with success. Indeed, it was an established maxim of the Court of Rome to have one degree of toleration at Rome, and another for itself in all other countries.
§ The EARL of HARROWBYThe question, my Lords, is not, whether there is any want of accommodation for the worship of our Protestant countrymen at Rome, but whether we, as Protestants, are to 1931 enjoy the same liberty at Rome as the Roman Catholics, natives and foreigners, enjoy here? The accommodation which we have at Rome for Divine worship is that of a common granary without the walls; and that is not a fit and decent place for Divine worship. As to anything of ecclesiastical splendour, that has hitherto been entirely wanting; and the question really is, whether the Church of Rome will, or will not, permit British Protestants to have some building erected at their own cost, appropriated to their own worship, within the walls of Rome, just as the Roman Catholics of every country have their own places of worship in almost every town in this country. He hoped that the noble Secretary for the Foreign Department would soon be called on to exercise his authority, and to make application to the Court of Rome for this permission, in order that the sincerity of its professions respecting toleration might be put to the test without any disguise.
§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEwas understood to say, that if the noble Earl asked him, whether he thought that the Church of Rome would admit English Protestants to the same degree of religious liberty in Rome as English and foreign Roman Catholics enjoyed in England, his answer must be, "I am afraid not."
The BISHOP of LONDONMy Lords, I entirely concur in the concluding observation of the noble Marquess, that little success can be hoped for in case any application is made by us for permission to erect a Protestant chapel either in the city or in any part of the dominions of the Bishop of Rome. The noble Marquess has well remarked, that, whether we look at the past history of the Court of Rome, or to the events which are still occurring there, it is evident that there are two points of view in which toleration is viewed by the Court and Church of Rome, namely, the toleration which is to be withholden from others, and the toleration which is to be claimed and enjoyed by themselves. It is true that there is a granary at Rome used as a Protestant chapel by our countrymen; and that it is large enough for those who usually attend it; but our countrymen are accustomed to pay their devotions in buildings where the external and internal decorations are proportional to the important sacred objects to which they are applied. They are, therefore, not content to worship except in a building which has something like the appearance of a temple. In this country 1932 Roman Catholics can already obtain with ease room and space to worship God in the form which is most agreeable to their own consciences; but they are not content with that; on the contrary, although they know that they have already far more than sufficient room in their places of worship, they have put forth, under the auspices of the Bishop of Rome himself, a proposal for building a magnificent cathedral to St. Peter in this city, where the metropolitan cathedral is dedicated to St. Paul. They are anxious, too, to have it erected in great splendour. Surely, then, they cannot blame us if we are seeking to accomplish a similar object in Rome. As to the difficulties thrown in the way of Englishmen desirous of worshipping God at Rome in that splendour which suits at once their ritual and their habits, I have only to say, that a large sum of money has been obtained within the last few weeks, not by indulgences—for we must not shut our eyes to the fact, that the Church of Rome has again had recourse to the practice which originally caused the Reformation, I mean the granting of indulgences to those who shall subscribe their money to the building of this new cathedral, or, in other words, the sale of indulgences—for the erection of a Protestant church or chapel in Rome, without an appeal to any other argument than the attachment and love of British Protestants to the Church of England, its ordinances, and its ritual. Having seen the extraordinary document which has recently been promulgated by the Bishop of Rome calling upon all the faithful to subscribe to the erection of a Popish cathedral in London, to be governed by the Ordinary of London, his Eminence Cardinal Wiseman, I should have deemed myself guilty of an unpardonable dereliction of duty if I had remained entirely silent during this discussion.
§ The EARL of HARROWBYI wish to know whether Her Majesty's Government has any objections to lay on the table the correspondence which took place in the years 1839 and 1840 between our Minister and the authorities, lay and ecclesiastical, at Naples respecting the application of certain British subjects to build a chapel there for Protestant worship? If I recollect the circumstances aright, application was made by the British consul, on behalf of the British residents at Naples, to have a Protestant chapel erected in that city. If I recollect rightly, the British Minister was unwilling to interfere. Land, how- 1933 ever, was purchased, and the works were begun. The Archbishop of Naples was informed of it, and immediately interposed his prohibition. Ultimately the contract was obliged to be cancelled, the ground was abandoned, and the English Protestants were driven back to worship in the drawing-room of the consul, where, I believe, they still continue to worship. We ought not to shut our eyes to the tendency of acts like these, especially when the Church of Rome is omnipotent in its own temporal dominions, and is aiming to extend its spiritual domination over every region of the Continent. We have been told that a great reaction has taken place, and that the Pope is omnipotent in Continental Europe. If we deemed it necessary to complain of his proceedings in 1839 and in 1840, have we not increased cause to complain of them now? The noble Earl concluded by repeating his question.
§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEsaid, that inquiry should be made into the subject.