Lords Sitting of 30 July 1850

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Mercantile Marine (No. 2); Navy Pay; Public Libraries and Museums.
2a General Board of Health (No. 2); Small Tenements Rating.
Reported.—Bills of Exchange.
3a Highway Rates.

FISHERIES IN MID-CHANNEL BETWEEN ENGLAND AND FRANCE.
The EARL of WICKLOWwished to obtain some information on a subject of no slight importance from Her Majesty's Government. Their Lordships would have seen, from the public journals, that five British fishing vessels had been recently taken into the port of Dieppe by the French cruisers. If he had been rightly informed, their capture had not arisen our of any ordinary cause, but out of a novel cause of no small importance. There was a treaty, he believed, between the two countries, that the fishery of each country should be limited to a distance of five miles from the coast of the other. A most important discovery had been recently made of oyster beds between Brighton and Dieppe. The English fishermen had fished upon those beds to a great extent; and the consequence was, that at the present moment the English markets were as amply supplied with oysters as at any other period of the year. These oysters were an inferior fish, but were as fully in season. He was informed that nothing had prevented these oyster-beds from being fully fished by the English fishermen except the injury which it

483
was supposed it would inflict on the oyster fisheries of Essex. He had been informed that two of our fishing vessels had been chased from these grounds and fired into by a French cruiser, and that some had been actually taken, and carried into Dieppe as prisoners, by the French authorities. He knew that the attention of the noble Viscount the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had been called to this point; that, however, which he wanted to know was, whether any treaty or any convention had been entered into between the two Powers to save the lives of English fishermen from injury, and to protect their vessels from capture. The evil, he was sorry to say, was on the increase; and the English fishermen were determined not to be prevented from enjoying the treasure which had recently been discovered. The consequence would be, that the French would increase their force of cruisers to protect what they considered to be their own grounds. He therefore hoped that the noble Marquess would give the House some assurance that something would be done to prevent the recurrence of this evil.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEhoped that the answer which he was about to give to the question of his noble Friend would be quite satisfactory. It was probably known to their Lordships that there had been some trouble, discontent, and dispute respecting the fisheries on the coasts of two nations so near to each other as were the coasts of England and France. A treaty to adjust those discontents and disputes had been concluded between the two Governments in the year 1838, and it had so far succeeded that, although it did not entirely prevent quarrels from arising, they had not led to any mischievous consequences, but had been accommodated successfully to the claims of both nations. The fisheries were not to be fished by foreign fishermen within three miles of the respective coasts of either country, with one exception, which had arisen out of an immemorial usage. On arriving at a particular point in the mid-channel between Jersey and France, which was not laid down on any map, or by any geographical line, but which was well known to the fishermen of both countries, a particular field was assigned, where the fishermen of neither country were to fish. It was on this particular field that the difficulty to which the noble Lord had alluded, had recently arisen. He believed
484
that it was a difficulty which would soon adjust itself, as similar difficulties had adjusted themselves which had formerly arisen; as, for instance, when a fisherman of cither country was found trespassing on the fishing grounds of the other, he was carried into the nearest port of the country on which he had trespassed, and his offence was there decided on by the ordinary magistrates. The decisions followed the law of the respective countries. Up to this time the English fishermen had been trespassing occasionally on the French coasts, as the French had been trespassing on ours. The particular difficulty in this case had arisen from the discovery of a large oyster-bed in the ground which the fishermen of neither country had been allowed to approach. He did not know whether the oysters had had any secret intelligence of that fact; but it was undeniable that they had accumulated upon that spot, and had thus afforded an irresistible temptation to the fishermen both of England and France. He knew no reason why, on being caught trespassing, they should not be carried, as on former occasions, before the magistrates of the two countries. No report had been received from our Consul at Dieppe, and there was at present no reason to suppose that any injustice had been done.

THE QUEEN'S MESSAGE—MARLBOROUGH HOUSE.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEthen moved that the Order of the Day be read for considering the Message of the Queen respecting securing Marlborough-house to His Royal Highness Albert Edward, Prince of Wales.
The Order of the Day and the Royal Message were then read by the Clerk at the table.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE, in moving that an Address to the Crown in reply to this Message should be unanimously adopted, observed that it was only necessary for him to explain that the object of this arrangement was to secure in a suitable part of this metropolis a fitting residence at a future period for His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales. It might be asked, why it was necessary to secure such a residence at present? It had occurred to the Members of Her Majesty's Government, and the suggestion had met the approbation of Her Majesty herself, that it might be desirable to appropriate

485
Marlborough-house, which had become vacant by the unfortunate death of the late Queen Dowager, to the object of displaying the collection of pictures which, by the munificence of the late Mr. Vernon, had recently become the property of the country. There was a general desire that that collection should be placed in a situation where it could be seen with advantage, and it occurred to Her Majesty's Government that, until a national building could be provided for it, Marlborough-house might be appropriated for that purpose But, as that was not the ultimate object to which the Crown proposed to devote Marlborough-house, it became expedient to secure it by express provision for the future residence of the Prince of Wales. That was the main reason for making this arrangement; but economical considerations, which were of great importance at the present moment, were also in favour of it. All that their Lordships were now invited to do was to express their concurrence that a suitable residence should be provided for the Prince of Wales, and that Marlborough-house was not an unsuitable building for that purpose. The arrangement could not be effected by any other way more conducive to the dignity of the Prince of Wales and to those feelings of economy which at present prevailed so generally. He therefore moved—
"That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, to return Her Majesty the Thanks of this House for Her Majesty's Most Gracious Message expressive of Her Majesty's Desire that the House called Marlborough House should be secured to His Royal Highness Albert Edward, Prince of Wales, after he shall have attained the Age of Eighteen Years, during the joint Lives of Her Majesty and His said Royal Highness, and to assure Her Majesty that this House will cheerfully concur in such Measures as may be necessary to carry Her Majesty's Most Gracious Intention into effect."
LORD BROUGHAMcommended the proposition of his noble Friend as a happy combination, in granting for a time the use of a palatial residence to the exhibition of a great, national collection of works of art, and in securing at the same time the building for His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales when he should require an establishment. The arrangement was inexpensive, and deserved the term applied to it by his noble Friend of economical. The noble and learned Lord passed a high eulogy upon Mr. Vernon, to whose honour he should rejoice to see a public testimonial.
LORD REDESDALEexpressed his wish that Marlborough-house should be given to the Duchy of Cornwall, and should be kept in future as a residence for the Prince of Wales. If there was no Prince of Wales, it might remain in the care and possession of the Crown.
The same was agreed to, Nemine Dissentiente; and the said Address ordered to be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.
House adjourned to Thursday next.