LORD STANLEYpresented a petition on the subject of national education; and, in presenting it, he trusted the noble Marquess opposite would excuse him if he repeated a question which he had put in the early part of the Session, with reference to the application of the fund for the Schools of the National Society. The petition was from the in-habitants of the deanery of Frome, and, after complaining of the operation of the 1080 management clauses under which the funds were distributed, prayed that the interference of the Government might be limited to two points—namely, that the site of school buildings shall be legally secured by trusts legally constituted; and, secondly, that the school shall be open to Government inspection within certain limits, as arranged in 1840. Early in the Session, he had put a question to the noble Marquess upon this subject, when he was informed that a correspondence was then going on upon the subject between the Government and the heads of the Church. He had now to ask if that correspondence had been brought to a conclusion, and whether terms had been agreed upon between the Government and the heads of the Church tending to remove the objections which were entertained by a large body in the Church?
§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEwas sorry that he could not state that that correspondence had been brought to a conclusion. He hoped, however, that it soon would be. As far as related to the Committee of Privy Council, it had come to an end. He was happy to be able to inform their Lordships, that certain arrangements had been made by that Committee which were deemed satisfactory by many distinguished Prelates of the Church, and even by many of the objectors to their former proceedings. There were, however, certain persons—but he believed that their number was not large—who still objected to the regulations and conditions which the Committee considered to be indispensable for carrying out the intentions of Parliament. He thought it proper that the correspondence should be brought to a conclusion before it was presented to Parliament; but if he should find that any considerable time was likely to elapse before it was brought to a conclusion, he would lay it upon the table as far as it had gone, as he was most anxious that the attention of both Houses of Parliament should be called to the subject.
LORD STANLEYobserved, that one reason which had induced him to put this question was, that he had seen that the vote on this subject had passed, sub silen-tio, in the other House of Parliament. He, therefore, thought, that the time had now come when their Lordships ought to under-stand what the conditions were upon which future grants to these schools were to be made.
The BISHOP of LONDONsaid, that as 1081 he was not aware of the intention of Lord Stanley to put this question to the noble President of the Council, he had not come down to the House prepared to make any observations upon it. One observation, however, had been made by the noble Baron which appeared to him to require an answer on his part. The noble Baron had spoken of the correspondence as a correspondence between Her Majesty's Government and the rulers of the Church. Now, that was not quite correct. The correspondence had taken place between Her Majesty's Government and the Committee of the National Society. It was true that the Committee of the National Society comprehended several rulers of the Church; but he distinctly asserted, that the rulers of the Church were not responsible for the acts of the National Society, and that the Church itself was not responsible for them. He would say more than that; he assorted that great inconvenience had arisen from the notion that the National Society represented the Church. In the remainder of the noble Baron's observations he must express his own concurrence. He thought that Parliament should have an opportunity of expressing its opinion on the mode of expending the public money which was disbursed by its authority for the purpose of educating the poor, and on the conditions on which it was to be dispensed. He trusted that Government would attend to this point, and afford some explanation; for at present it seemed that the clergy had no choice save that of accepting the money on the terms of the Government. It would be in the recollection of their Lordships, that some years ago he had moved an Address to Her Majesty, praying that Parliament might have an opportunity of expressing its opinion with respect to one of the most important questions that could occupy the attention of the Legislature—the mode in which popular education could be promoted throughout the country. Certain it was that great dissatisfaction prevailed among a large portion of the members of the Church as to the conditions imposed upon the grants by the Committee of Privy Council; and he did not think that those apprehensions so entertained in the Church were by any means allayed. He did not think that these apprehensions were justly entertained; at least, he did not entertain them himself to the extent to which they were entertained by the parties to whom he alluded; but, he thought, consideration was 1082 due to the scruples which were felt; and, whether those scruples were just or not, Parliament should be put in possession of the Minutes of the Council before they assumed the shape of an Act of Parliament.
§ The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEexpressed his concurrence in the observation of the right rev. Prelate, that these Minutes should be before Parliament, in order that any errors into which the Committee of Privy Council might have fallen should be at once corrected. With that view they had been, and they would be, laid from time to time before Parliament.
Petition to he on the table.