HL Deb 30 July 1849 vol 107 cc1116-20
LORD WHARNCLIFFE

rose to bring forward the Motion of which he had given notice— That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for Copies of any Communications which may have passed between Her Majesty's Government and the Governments of Foreign Powers, in consequence of the passing of the Bill for the repeal of the Navigation Laws. On presenting himself before their Lordships, he was bound to say that he would not have presumed to call their Lordships' attention to a Motion of this description at that late period of the Session—he might almost say the final moment of the Session—unless he was prepared to show that the peculiar circumstances of the case justified him in asking their attention. His justification for so doing was simply this—when the Bill passed their Lordships' House this Session, the object of which was to repeal the then existing Navigation Laws, it was provided, amongst the clauses of that Bill, that it should take effect on the first day of the ensuing year—the 1st of January, 1850; so that, in fact, it would come into operation during the recess, and it was most important that there should be no misapprehension or any ignorance on the subject. He objected at the time the Bill passed to the effect of that provision, feeling as he did that there were questions involved in the operation of the Bill which were of the greatest interest to the nation at large, and with respect to which it was but fair that Parliament should have some voice at the time, or about the time, the Act was to have effect; and he thought it only reasonable that the provision should be so altered as to bring the commencement of the operation of the Act within some period when the Legislature would be sitting. Their Lordships did not seem inclined to adopt his suggestion, and he did not then think it necessary to press it; but the effect of the provision passed by their Lordships was this, that before they should again assemble, the Act would be brought into operation, and that was the last opportunity any person feeling an interest in the consequences of that enactment could obtain of asking the Government what course it proposed to take with respect to the relations between this country and foreign States, and with respect to the exercise of the powers conferred on the Government to enable them to treat with some authority on this subject with foreign States. He considered the question as to what might be done by foreign States with respect to the Navigation Laws, as a matter of considerable moment. He had proposed an Amendment that would impose on Her Majesty's Government some duties with respect to communications with foreign Powers, and he need not rest altogether on argument to support that view of the case; he need do no more than appeal to the measures of the Government itself. If they did not entirely agree with him, to some extent at least they agreed with him in his view of the subject; and one of the features of this important measure was to give to Government powers of retaliation for the express purpose of inflicting penalties upon those Powers that might decline to meet them on fair terms of reciprocity. But supposing that those clauses regarding reciprocity were sufficient for all the purposes which their promoters intended, they did not, he conceived, preclude him from putting the question which he had put to the Government, or from making the Motion which he then submitted to the House. He must remind their Lordships of a paper presented to both Houses of Parliament at the time of the discussion on the Navigation Laws. He alluded to a despatch which had been written by the noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in the month of December last, addressed to the British Ministers at foreign Courts. He (Lord Wharncliffe) would read a few sentences out of that letter. It was but fair he should remind their Lordships of the language held by the noble Lord on the subject, and which induced him to think it worth while to take the matter up. About the 2nd of December, 1848, the noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs wrote as follows to our Ministers at foreign Courts:— You will point out to the—Government that although the proposed Bill will not attempt to make the relaxation in the British law strictly dependent upon the legislation of other countries, yet that the general policy of each State will be a matter for consideration when such relaxations are in question; and you will endeavour to obtain at the earliest possible period when—will be prepared to accept advances made on the part of Great Britain for placing the ships of the two countries on a footing of equality, with the single reservation of the coasting-trade, or whether the—Government would prefer to reserve any particular privileges or exemptions to their national vessels, on the understanding that it may thereby render it impossible for this country to concede to—'s shipping the whole of the advantages which will, under the Contemplated measure, attach to the shipping of such States as may place British and national vessels upon a footing of more perfect equality: for while the British Government are prepared to remove nearly the whole of the restrictions of the British Navigation Laws, in all cases where such a mea sure shall be mot in a spirit of corresponding liberality, it is impossible for them to lay down, with any precision, the course they may think fit to take where no such spirit is shown, until They shall be filly informed of all the circum stances which should be taken into their consideration.—I am, &c. "PALMERSTON. The circular then recited the Bill of last Session, and proceeded in these words:— Ample powers were, however, reserved to the Crown to impose differential duties, prohibitions, or restrictions upon the ships of any country in which British ships should be subject to such duties, restrictions, or prohibitions; and it was intended that the Bill should not have come into operation for some months after the day on which it passed, in order that Her Majesty's Government might have time to ascertain the dispositions of foreign Powers, and might thus be able to frame the proper orders for any differential duties, &c. that might be required before the intended relaxations should begin to take effect towards the ships of such nations as might be willing to treat British shipping on a footing of perfect reciprocity. He believed there was not a man in the country who considered the subject attentively who entertained any belief that reciprocity was practicable, in the strict sense of the term; but by the law, as the recent Bill had made it, our system of commercial intercourse had been most materially relaxed, and it therefore became the bounden duty of Ministers to render the change as little inconvenient to the country as possible. When he had on a former occasion alluded to this subject, Ministers had not repudiated the view that he took, and it struck his mind most forcibly that it might be regarded as a matter of indifference whether we asserted our claims to reciprocity by means of previous remonstrance, or by means of our clauses of retaliation. It amounted to the same thing whichever course we took. We had given up our exclusive rights to all commercial inter- course, foreign or colonial, to all but the coasting trade; and it became absolutely necessary that we should in other respects protect our interests by rendering that change as easy and as little injurious as possible. In the first place, with respect to France, the Government had a perfect right to demand that there should be some concession made; considering the relations between the two countries and the public policy of France, they should expect that they would concede something. Let them look, in the next place, to the case of the United States. They were in a position that entitled them to make a demand on that country; and if the Government properly availed themselves of their powers, they might obtain great advantages for the subjects of this country. He asked if America and this country now stood in the same position they formerly stood in with respect to each other? No; there is now a material difference in their positions, and it was the duty of the Government to obtain equal advantages for this country.

The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE

said, there certainly was no objection to the noble Lord's calling the attention of the House to the subject in the manner that he had done, even though the Session was so near its termination; but he was sure the House would feel with him that it would be impossible for the Government to give any part of the information which the noble Lord now required; and for this, amongst other reasons, that there had been no time since the passing of the Bill to take any steps with a view to establishing principles of reciprocity, or rather the nearest approach to principles of reciprocity, that circumstances would permit. He could assure the noble Lord that the subject had not been lost sight of—that communications had been opened with different countries—that considerable progress had been made in our communications with Foreign Powers, and he hoped our negotiations would speedily be brought to a satisfactory conclusion—alike satisfactory to this and to other countries; but such a result must, of course, depend upon the views entertained on the subject by Foreign Powers. Finally, it must be obvious to the House that while negotiations were pending he could make no communications to Parliament; but he could assure the noble Lord that the Government felt as strong an interest now in the subject as at the time the Bill was passed, and that they were using their utmost endeavours to obtain from all countries a recognition of the principles of reciprocity.

On Question, resolved in the Affirmative.