THE STEAM NAVY. (Hansard, 19 July 1849)

§ EARL TALBOT

begged to call the attention of their Lordships to a correspondence which had recently taken place with respect to the state of the steam navy, one of the correspondents being Sir Charles Napier, who had lately been in command of the Channel squadron, and the other correspondent being a Member of their Lordships' House. He did not wish to enter into the merits of that correspondence; but he thought the question raised by it of so much importance, that he was anxious to afford the Government an opportunity of setting the question at rest, by stating whether the steam navy of the country is or is not sufficient for the defence of our shores, and of the empire generally. The gallant Admiral to whom he referred stated that they had only three steam frigates with an armament on the main deck, and that there were twenty-two frigates of that description in the French navy. He did not think the gallant Admiral had adduced any very strong evidence in support of the assertion that there are twenty-two French steamers of this description; but he had stated in positive terms that we had only three vessels carrying guns on the main deck propelled by steam. He found the gallant Admiral had omitted the line-of-battle ships that go by the name of block ships, that are propelled by screws, and which he (Earl Talbot) had no doubt would sooner or later prove of efficiency and use; and so much did he think that was the case, that he had no doubt that, in the course of a few years, they would find it necessary to adopt the screw system as an auxiliary in all their sailing vessels, and thus make them, what frigates were formerly called, "the eyes of the fleet." He should take the liberty of putting a question to the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Minto) with re- 560 ference to the matters adverted to in the correspondence at the close of his observations. It was not his wish to moot the question at all in the House, and he would not have done so had he not seen that it was totally unattended to in the other House of Parliament, where the Admiralty was more immediately represented, and where it was more proper to have the question discussed. He intended to move for certain returns with the consent of the First Lord of the Admiralty, who gave his permission on the condition that he would only move for the first-named returns, and the others, involving too much labour in the office, could be made out hereafter. The first return he would move for would be to show, "The number and description of each war steamer in commission, showing tonnage, horse-power, and armament, quantity of coals each is capable of carrying under hatches, consumption of coal per diem when under full steam, distinguishing screw from paddlewheel ship." Secondly, "Similar return of war steamers either advanced in ordinary, or under repair." Then they would get an official record that would show the extent of the steam force of this country. He would observe that there was a great waste of public money in the construction of steam vessels in this country, and that had been occasioned by the want of a measure which for several years he had advocated, namely, the appointment of a scientific board of construction, to whom the plans of all vessels might be referred. It was most important that they should bring science to hear on this matter. At present each man had his own view as to the mode in which ships should be built, and called upon the Admiralty to approve of his plan; and the consequence was that they had ships built that were mismanaged. He had moved for return after return, to get at the wasteful expenditure of public money that had been thus occasioned; but they presented one mass of confusion that savoured very much of the cooking of accounts. He would not trouble their Lordships with the names of the ships that had been so mismanaged, as it would occupy their time much more than he was inclined to do; but he must allude to one of those ships, in the construction of which the gallant Admiral himself had taken a great part. The gallant Admiral had taken a great part in the construction of the sidon; but he (Earl Talbot) had been informed that the Sidon was by no means a perfect 561 ship. Amongst the returns for which he hoped to be able to move, he would also ask for a return of the merchant steamers which could be made available in case of emergency. There were, as their Lordships must be aware, certain contracts entered into with large steam companies, who received public grants for carrying the mails; and in these contracts he believed there was a clause by which those proprietors of steam vessels were compelled to construct them in a certain way, so that in case of necessity they should be able to carry heavy ordnance. That would be a very useful return to lay upon the table of the House. If the gallant Admiral to whom he had referred stated that he had seen those French steamers, and made a report respecting them to the Admiralty, he (Earl Talbot) would ask for a copy of that report, in order that their Lordships and the country might be able to judge of the extent of the force that exists in France. When he spoke of the French steam vessels, he was far from wishing that there should be any thing like jealousy between the countries as to the extent of the force to be sustained by each; but this country, from its insular condition, and the great demand on its marine, was entitled, at the least, to have as efficient a force as France. He begged to call their Lordships' attention to a statement he held in his hand of the ships in the French and English navy. It was taken from their Navy List, and from the Journal of Marine, in France, and the statement of the President of the French Republic:—

LINE OF BATTLE SHIPS.
In Commission.
ENGLISH.	FRENCH.
No.	Guns.	No.	Guns.
12	1072	10	1000
Frigates.
9	382	7	338
Corvettes.
13	293	17	438
Brigs.
27	300	21	318
61	2047	55	2100

STEAM NAVY.
First class, above 200 horse-power.
No.	Horse-pr.	No.	Horse-pr.
26	9,173	22	7,630
Two of which, from 800 to 560 horse-power, carry guns on maindeck.	Ten of which, from 600 to 450 horse-power. carry guns on maindeck.
For 200 horse-power, downwards.
No.	Horse-pr.	No.	Horse-pr.
43	5,898	86	4,700
69	15,071	58	12,330

562

Screw Steamers.
No.	Horse-pr.	No.	Horse-pr.
9	1,560	3	540
RESERVED FORCE.
Line of Battle Ships.
5 ready for commission 20 advanced	President of French Republic says There are 10
Frigates and Sloops.
11 (but several advanced)			15
STEAM RESERVE.
Ready.
6 Screw vessels.	2,320	Steam frigates	10
27 Paddle steamers	6,688
Nearly Ready.
4 Screw vessels.	1,520	Corvettes	6
6 Paddle steamers	2,150	Small vessels	6
43	12,678

He admitted that they had a force sufficient to cope with any thing in existence at present; but he trusted, before any future steamers were built, means would be taken to correct the evil now complained of, and that their steamers might no longer be, he might say, the laughing-stock of the world. They had every capability for building the finest steamers in the world—they had the best machinery in the world, the best timber, and the best contractors, if the vessels were contracted for and equipped in a proper manner. While he was on the subject of naval matters, he should like also to obtain a return of the number of classes into which the ships of the Navy are divided. If a ship were disabled and wanted a spar, the answer, when it was applied for, might be that there was one belonging to another class, but not to fit that ship. Therefore there was a want of classification to enable them to arrive at a knowledge of what ships ought to constitute each class. What he contended for was, that a first-rate, carrying a certain number of guns, should be of a certain recognised size, and so with the second-rate, &c. A surveyor had been sent by Mr. Ward, the late Secretary of the Admiralty, to the dockyards, by whom regulations were made for the examination of apprentices for the different offices in the dockyard; but he (Earl Talbot) thought that the system of education now adopted was capable of great improvement. The greatest hardship had been experienced in consequence of the abolition of the Naval School of Architecture, and that was a measure which he believed to be of very great detriment to the public service, as well as of great hardship to the gentle- 563 men who constituted that school. He hoped, before long that the necessity of the case would show that a school of that description should be established, from which the offices in the yards should be filled, and that department of the Navy put on an efficient and permanent footing. He would also move for a return on a future day of the number of men that had been discharged from Her Majesty's yards. The same system was now going on that had prevailed in the years 1832 and 1833—discharging men, leaving the yards inefficiently attended, the consequence being the very reverse of economical. Clearing the yards was not the way to get men; and when an emergency arose they would have to pay a higher price for them. He was perfectly confident that their steam navy would be able to maintain the honour of this country; but still he did not think it was so possible as men imagined, considering the great facilities that steam had given to France and other countries to bring troops to the shore and carry them over, to say that there is an equal facility of resisting them. They should, therefore, be on their guard, though he had no fear of the result, and he would have less fear when their seaboard was put on a more efficient footing. He could not sit down without saying that there were powers and inventions which would secure this country, not only from all the steamers of France, but from all the steamers of Europe. They knew of it very well, and the Government, he thought, were very remiss in not securing the benefit of them for the country. Having had a communication with the First Lord of the Admiralty, he would now move for the first two returns only.