LORD STANLEYsaid, he had on the preceding evening given notice of his intention to put a question to the noble Earl the Secretary of State for the Colonies on a subject of very great interest, and to which he trusted the inquiries of the noble Lord had been directed. The question he had to put to the noble Earl was with reference to a subject on which he had 458 made some inquiries during the last Session, namely, the exorbitant and enormous rate of taxation imposed by the British Colonial Legislatures, and especially in Canada, upon persons emigrating from this country. That tax he believed the noble Earl would agree with him in thinking was far greater than was necessary. Now, whilst he (Lord Stanley) was quite ready to admit the right of the Colonial Legislatures to protect themselves against an indiscriminate pauper emigration, still he believed the noble Earl must be of opinion that what had been done was far beyond the necessity of the case. As emigration from Ireland was likely to be carried at the present season to a very great extent, as the period was fast approaching when the emigration would be commenced, he trusted that the noble Earl would be able to inform the House and the country that the Colonial Legislatures were likely to reduce the heavy taxation previously imposed by them. The question which he now put to the noble Lord was one in which he was personally interested, for be was quite sure that a considerable number of his own tenants were likely to become emigrants during the present year, and that they would come to him to know his advice as to whore they ought to go; and his assistance too, if they had not the means to carry themselves out; and in such cases he must say that the answer given by him would, ill no inconsiderable degree, be influenced by the answer which he now received from the noble Earl. It would depend upon that answer whether he should tell them to transfer their labour to the British Colonies, or, if driven from it by a heavy rate of taxation, to seek a refuge on the more hospitable shores of the United States of America.
§ EARL GREYsaid, that after the noble Lord had referred to this subject last Session, he addressed a despatch to the Earl of Elgin, Governor General of Canada, in relation to it. By the last mail, which arrived only a few days ago, he had received a communication from the Governor General, stating that he had been in deliberation with his Council upon the subject of the tax, and informing him that it was the intention of the Executive Council of Canada to propose to the Legislature some modifications in the law which was passed last year. At the same time, the Governor General distinctly stated that though the tax was very considerable, it was not, 459 in point of fact, more than sufficient to meet the expenses incurred by the province on account of the emigrants. When the noble Lord talked of emigrants being attracted from Canada to a more hospitable quarter, namely, New York, let him turn his attention to the fact, that in Canada emigrants received a much greater amount of assistance than in New York. In New York no assistance whatever was rendered to them except in cases of sickness, when they were sent to an hospital; but, in Canada, besides hospital accommodation, those who were unable to pay for it themselves were provided with gratuitous conveyances, at the cost of the province, to the most remote districts, and to those parts where they were fully certain of finding employment. This constituted a very material difference, and, even after reckoning the Canadian tax, he believed that on the whole, the route to the regions of the west by Canada was at this moment considerably cheaper for emigrants than the route by New York. At the same time, Lord Elgin and his Council were desirous of reducing the tax, believing that it was objectionable in principle; but, upon the other hand, the circumstances of Quebec and Montreal were very different from those of New York. In the large commercial city of New York, employment was almost always to be found for emigrants upon their arrival; but in the much smaller population, having much fewer resources, of the two cities he had named, it was at times quite impossible, when a fleet of emigrant ships arrived, to provide all the emigrants with employment. The consequence was, that unless some means of conveyance into the interior were provided, an intolerable burden was thrown upon those cities, whilst, if those means were not provided, the emigrants would have to sustain greater inconvenience than the tax now complained of. It was, however, the disposition of the Executive Council, and, he believed, of the Legislature also, to deal with this question in the most liberal way towards the emigrants. They felt it to be their interest to do so. They knew that the freight of produce by the St. Lawrence was reduced if the vessels carrying it could earn something by taking emigrants outward. At the same time, they were bound to consider the whole interests of the province. The calamities that followed from the extensive 460 emigration of 1847, were of a description so frightful that it was impossible they should not establish what they considered adequate precautions against a repetition of those evils. He might also observe, that even with the restrictions that had been imposed, the emigration to Canada, last year, fully equalled the means which the province had of disposing of the emigrants that arrived. The completion of the great public works upon the St. Lawrence caused a great diminution in the means of employment. It appeared by a report from Mr. Cannon, one of the engineers engaged upon those works, that a very large proportion of the emigrants were unskilled labourers. For farm-servants, he said there was no difficulty in finding employment in the far west; but when no public works were in progress, the difficulty in finding employment for unskilled labourers was very great indeed. Even last year, when the class of emigrants was much better than in the year before, a large proportion consisted of labourers of this description. Before he sat down, it would be proper for him to add, as the noble Lord had intimated that the question was now under consideration, whether intending emigrants were to be directed to our own colonies or to foreign countries, that the Governor General of Canada, the Executive Council, and the emigration agents, all concurred in stating that there was no prospect of a great deal of employment there in the present year; and they strongly advised that a very large proportion of emigrants should not he recommended to proceed thither instead of the United States. This was a subject, however, upon which it appeared to him desirable that the most accurate information should be placed before their Lordships and the country as speedily as possible. The despatches therefore which he had received should be printed immediatedly for the use of the two Houses of Parliament, and in a few days he hoped also to lay upon the table the correspondence that had already taken place.
§ LORD MONTEAGLEwas glad that this conversation had occurred, although he much regretted to hoar the last observation made by the noble Earl, and which was directly in opposition to information he had himself received from Canada. He had not been led to think that the arrival of strong and healthy emigrants would be 461 other than a benefit to the colony. That there should have boon difficulty in providing for the emigrants to Canada in 1847 could be easily understood; but what had then been objected to in Canada was not the number of emigrants, but the disease that accompanied them. As to the statement made by the noble Earl that the colonial emigrant tax had not been productive, no one could be surprised at it. It had impeded emigration by its amount, it was a bad financial measure from its excess, and therefore it had failed. In proportion as the tax on emigrants had been increased, that emigration had been diverted to foreign countries. In the early part of last Session, his noble Friend had introduced an amended Passenger Act, which was intended to protect the colonies from the pressure of disease. That Act he (Lord Monteagle) and other friends of emigration reluctantly supported. But contemporaneously, and without being aware of what was in progress hero, the colonies increased their tax on emigrants. The result of those double burdens imposed in Europe and in America, had been that the whole tide of British emigration was diverted to a foreign country. The noble Secretary for the Colonies had said that more care was taken of the emigrant in British North America than in the United States. He doubted the fact. Take the colony of New Brunswick as an instance. There a tax had been levied on emigrants for many years. What became of the produce of that tax? Was it applied to purposes calculated to relieve or forward the emigrant? No; it had been for years appropriated by the colonial legislature to colonial purposes, and the abuse was considered so gross that it had been remonstrated against by several successive governors. In New York, on the contrary, the produce of the tax was exclusively applied for the purposes of the emigrant. By looking at papers upon the subject which had been presented to the House, their Lordships would find that the system of transmitting the emigrants to the interior, of which his noble Friend boasted, had been in parts of British North America, he would not say so cruel, but so careless, so remiss, so signally defective in all the precautions that ought to have been taken even for the security of human life, as to have caused much of the disease which prevailed; they would find that the diffusion of fever in Canada was mainly attributable to the mode of transmitting the 462 emigrants which had been adopted. The fact had been admitted by persons connected with the Government during the last Session. On the contrary, the United States provided for the proper transmission of emigrants. [Earl GREY: No, no!] He would show to his noble Friend and to the House that the cheapest, the simplest, and most effectual mode of transmitting emigrants was adopted by the United States, not by steamboats, but by railroad. In the railway acts of New York, and he believed of other States in the Union, there was a special provision made for cheap trains for the express purpose of transmitting emigrants to the interior. This duty was imposed upon the railway companies by the legislature, and by such means much more effectual assistance was given by the United States legislature than by providing those dens of fever and pestilence which had unhappily floated along the St. Lawrence, carrying death and disease into the interior of Canada. He did not mean to say that there was no hope of a better state of things in British North America. In spite of the noble Earl's speech he could not surrender this expectation. All that he desired was that the colonies should act in such a manner on the subject of emigration as should be most conducive to their own best interests. We had no right to make use of the colonies merely as a means of getting rid of an excess of population. We should never overlook or disregard colonial interests from selfish views. But our interests, so far from being conflicting, were identical. The Canadas and the other colonies in British North America admitted that the introduction of labour of a proper class, was the abundant source of improvement to the colonies themselves. There were good arguments against the emigration of 1847, when the people flocked not only in excessive numbers, but in contagion and fever, and when in some cases they were sent away without proper precautions; but there was no argument against a better and a properly-regulated system of emigration: all the calamities of the most calamitous years only proved, that the Government and the Legislature ought well to consider what that system ought to be. He was convinced that in relation to the state of Ireland—and even in relation to the state of this country—the question of colonisation was one which must force itself upon their Lordships' attention. On the next occasion their Lordships met it was 463 his intention to move for certain returns which he believed would not be objected to, namely, a return of the number of emigrants who left our shores during the past year, and the different parts to which they went, distinguishing the number taken from Great Britain and from Ireland.
§ EARL GREYfelt called upon to express his deep regret that his noble Friend had shown such a disposition to censure the legislatures of the British North American colonies: connected as his noble Friend was with Ireland, the speech of his noble Friend would not dispose those legislatures to receive those who sought their shores with more of friendliness. Notwithstanding all the noble Lord had said, he still maintained that the colonies had been most unjustly censured. When he recollected the sacrifices they had made in 1847; when he remembered the noble efforts they had made to mitigate the sufferings of the emigrants, and the evils of such an immigration as then took place, it was hard to censure them. In his answer to the question of the noble Lord opposite, he had confined his observations to Canada alone: his noble Friend had not followed the same course. In New Brunswick, it undoubtedly was a great abuse that the produce of the emigrant tax should be appropriated to other objects than the assistance and forwarding of the emigrants; but that abuse was put an end to by the Act of 1847. His noble Friend then went on to say, that no wonder the tax did not answer its purpose, that it was a bad financial measure, and limited emigration. He begged to inform his noble Friend, that according to the opinion of the very able gentlemen now in the government of Canada—and he could assure the House that there was no government carried on with greater discretion and ability than that of Canada—the able members of the Council of Lord Elgin, had recorded their opinion that the number of emigrants which arrived last year, was as great as the colony could receive with advantage. He spoke from memory, but he believed the number which landed in Canada was 28,000; and, of course, had the immigration been larger, and the means of affording employment being deficient, the produce of the tax was not sufficient for the purpose of providing for and forwarding the emigrants; and in fact, upwards of 1,000l. beyond the whole produce of the tax was so spent. His noble Friend had said the United States forwarded the emigrants 464 from New York by means of cheap trains on railroads. There might be a law in America providing cheap trains, just as in this country we had cheap Parliamentary trains provided for a certain class of travellers; but he would venture to say that emigrants were not conveyed at a lower cost than the cost of their transport, even in America. His noble Friend had complained of the manner in which the emigrants were forwarded on the St. Lawrence; but his remarks applied to 1847, when no one denied that great evils existed—evils which it was then impossible to avoid or avert—because the immigration was excessive and unexpected. At that period there were not the means of transport upon the St. Lawrence for such numbers as then arrived; but now the great internal line of communication was completed, and emigrants, however large in number, could be forwarded in safety and comfort to the very remotest parts of the far west. Steamboats now existed on the whole route, which had been provided at the charge of the provincial government. The arrangements, as they were worked during the last year, were perfectly satisfactory; at all events no effort would be wanting on the part of Lord Elgin and his Council to render them complete. There was very little doubt that the commercial depression under which Canada, along with the rest of the world, had been suffering, would pass away, the demand for labour would increase, and emigrants would be gladly received; but no policy would be so bad as to endeavour to force the colonies to go faster than they themselves wished. If their Lordships fully looked at the papers on the table of the House, they would be astonished at the extraordinary increase which had taken place in a few years in Upper Canada, in population, in wealth, and the extent of land which had been brought into cultivation—it was daily increasing as a field for emigration. In justice to the colonies, he must again say that they did not deserve the censure which his noble Friend had cast upon them; they had always received the emigrants who sought their shores with the utmost hospitality.
§ LORD MONTEAGLEsaid, he had not cast such sweeping censure upon the colonial legislatures as his noble Friend fancied. He had spoken in strong but well-merited censure of New Brunswick. He had condemned the emigrant tax as excessive; but, as an apology, had himself 465 suggested that the legislature had acted in ignorance of provisions made for emigration in England, while we were in ignorance of what provisions they had made in America; and the result of the mutual ignorance was, that a double burden had been thus thrown upon the unfortunate emigrants. In both cases, however, he rejoiced to state that the laws were temporary, and would soon expire.
§ EARL FITZWILLIAMdenied that his noble Friend had cast any censure upon the colonial legislatures. His noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies had said, the colonial government had represented that it was not desirable that any large number of emigrants should arrive in the colonies until some public works were in progress. He wished to know why such public works were not in the course of execution, seeing they would give employment to so many? The colonial legislatures ought to be encouraged to forward such works immediately.
§ Subject at an end.