Lords Sitting of 30 June 1848

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2a Imprisonment for Debt (Ireland); Public Health.
Reported.—Commons Inclosure.
Received the Royal Assent.—Great Yarmouth Freemen Disfranchisement; Poor Houses (Ireland); Collectors of Cess (Ireland).
PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Sanquhar, and several other Places, against the Sale of Intoxicating Liquors on the Sabbath.—From Bristol, and a great Number of other Places, in favour of the Public Health Bill.—From Chichester, for the Adoption of Measures for the Suppression of Seduction and Prostitution.—From the Belfast Anti-Slavery Association, against the Intended System of Emigration of the Natives of Africa to the British Colonies.—From Bowden, for the Imposition of the Severest Penalties on all Roman Catholic Priests who shall Denounce Persons from the Altar.—From Manchester, for the Establishment of a General System of Secular Education throughout the County Palatine of Lancaster.—From Saintfield, and Durness, for facilitating the Attainment of Sites for Free Churches in Scotland.—From Forfar, for the Rejection of the Marriage (Scotland) Bill, and the Registering Births, &c. (Scotland) Bill.

PUBLIC HEALTH BILL.
LORD CAMPBELL LORD CAMPBELL moved the Second Reading of the Bill. He trusted that it would receive the sanction of their Lordships, for it was a most important measure, and one which, though interesting to all classes of the community, might be termed, with truth, the poor man's measure. He would make a short statement showing the effect of overcrowding, filth, and defective ventilation in two counties, one agricultural and the other manufacturing. In Westmoreland, taking a population of 10,000, 23 persons died in a year from epidemic diseases, while in Lancashire 55 died of the same diseases in a population of the same amount. In Westmoreland, the deaths from diseases of the respiratory organs were 47 in 10,000, and in Lancashire, 73 in the same number. Of those who died prematurely between the ages of 20 and 60, the number in Westmoreland was 49, and in Lancashire 68. In the union of Ulverstone, in a population of 10,000, 13 persons died from epidemic diseases, while in a union of Liverpool, 75 died from the same causes. The deaths in the whole 10,000 were in Westmoreland, 206; in Lancashire 279. The result of the whole information before them as to the state of the manufacturing districts, was, that one-half the population died before attaining the age of five years, and those who became adult had their lives shortened by a period of ten years. The
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evidence collected by the Sanitary Commission showed that frightful disease and mortality prevailed in the manufacturing districts owing to the non-adoption of precautions for the preservation of health. There was ample evidence that the fatal disease of cholera was aggravated, if not caused, by sewers and standing waters; and when these were removed or freed from their noxious influences, it might be hoped that the disease would either be wholly averted or at least much mitigated. The good effects which arose from attending systematically to sewerage, ventilation, and furnishing a good supply of water, were very manifest from what had been accomplished in improving the sanitary condition of prisons. Their Lordships had often heard of the gaol fever, which used not only to carry off the prisoners, but at the assizes communicated itself to the witnesses and jurors. By proper care the prisons had now been brought into a more healthy state than almost any part of Her Majesty's dominions. As a proof of the diminution of mortality which had ensued from the application of similar beneficial measures, he might mention that in some districts where the deaths had been one in 32, they had decreased to one in 39. The model lodging-houses formed another proof of what could be done in the way of sanitary improvement. Very little, he was sorry to say, had been done for the promotion of the public health through the instrumentality of legislation and governmental assistance. The attention of Government had first been called to this subject, and inquiries had been made under the Poor Law Commissioners. By those inquiries it had been found and proved to demonstration, that a vast proportion of the poverty, squalor, and wretchedness which afflicted our lower classes was caused by the indifferent sanitary arrangements under which our urban population lived. It was not, however, until the Session of 1841 that Government was able to lay a Bill before their Lordships with a view to the remedy of those evils. In that year his noble Friend (the Marquess of Normanby) brought in a Bill for the better drainage and improvement of towns, which was warmly supported by the noble Duke opposite (the Duke of Buccleuch), and received the unanimous approbation of their Lordships. It went down to the other House of Parliament, where strong objections were made to it from several quarters; a dissolution of Parliament took place, and

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for a time the subject was necessarily suspended. When the Administration of Sir R. Peel was formed, the noble Duke did not in the slightest degree relax from his exertions in this holy cause; and the Earl of Lincoln, who deserved the highest degree of praise for the skill and ability he had applied to the subject, introduced the Bill into the other House of Parliament, and used his best efforts to get it passed. But the subject at that time was too intricate, and the late Government was unable to make any progress with it before they retired from office. On the formation of the present Government his noble Friend Lord Morpeth, the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests, took up the question with the greatest zeal, and, he might say, enthusiasm, and had given it his closest attention up to the present moment. If any blame could be imputed to that noble Lord, it must be for thinking that more could be accomplished than was found to be practicable. Under the superintendence of the noble Lord the present Bill had been framed and carried through the other House; this Bill he had now to offer to their Lordships for a second reading, and to which he asked their sanction. By this Bill it was proposed to create a board of general superintendence, to be presided over by the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests, and to include two other Commissioners, one of whom would receive a salary. This Board would have the power to appoint district inspectors of sanitary matters, men of science, and wholly uninfluenced by local interests and prejudices. In cases where no local Act existed, the Board would have the power of making provisional orders, which the Privy Council would enforce; and if the present Bill met with their Lordships' approbation there would be an annual Bill to carry into effect the provisional orders made by the General Board. It had been thought too much to depute to any board the power to enact that which would be the law of the land. There would also be local boards, with a view to the more thorough and efficient operation of the new system. Where the district comprehended a municipal corporation, the local board would consist of the town-council; where no part of the district was under a municipal corporation, a board would be elected, as in the administration of the poor-laws, by the ratepayers, according to the scale thereby settled. Where the district was partly under a municipal corporation, the board would
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consist one-half of the town-council, and the other half of elected commissioners. The Bill also gave a power of taxation, which he hoped would be most economically and sparingly exercised for its purposes. Some had objected to the measure on the ground of the expense which would be occasioned by its working; but for his (Lord Campbell's) part, he was convinced that, instead of there being a waste of money a profit would remain, and it was easy to see how this might be effected. Some places suffered from an accumulation of manure, which was now wasted, but which, well employed, would be most precious for the profit of those towns; others suffered equally from the accumulation of water. He believed that the apprehension of excessive rates was quite unfounded, and that the result in many eases would be that the poor-rates would be lowered, because it was well known that the poor-rates were raised by disease, by the necessity for medical attendance and aid. If they considered the vast number of infants to be maintained in the poorhouses in those districts where deaths were frequent, and the vast number of persons reduced to premature old age, it would be found that the rates might be much lowered by money well laid out. The most unfounded insinuations had been made, because the Bill did not include the city of London; whereas, in fact, it excluded, not the city of London in particlar, but the whole of the metropolitan districts. The metropolitan district included a population of 2,000,000 souls; the city of London did not contain above 150,000, and it did not contribute more than one-tenth of the amount raised in the metropolitan districts. When they legislated for the metropolis, he hoped they should legislate for the city of London; when a Bill was introduced for the metropolis, he should very much lament if the city of London were to set up its privileges and immunities to mar a measure so important and beneficial. But in the present state of affairs he thought it was most prudent, and he took to himself the full share of the responsibility, to postpone the Bill for the metropolis. There were in the metropolis great peculiarities; there were eight or ten different commissions of sewers, 100 different paving boards, all which bodies must be considered. The machinery of the present Bill would not be applicable to London; there must be another Bill for the metropolis, gaining the same object by different

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means. He was happy to inform their Lordships that a Bill for that purpose was in contemplation. A very extensive inquiry had been made, with a view to the introduction of such a measure; and he hoped to see one laid on the table in the course of the present Session, so that it might stand over, and be considered during the recess. He trusted that this Bill would meet the assent of that House, and that their Lordships would set a great example to Europe of an anxious desire to improve the condition of the humble orders of society. They would not hold out vain promises and expectations; what they offered, that they would perform. He believed this was the very first time that the Legislature of any country had proposed to frame a general measure for improving and securing the general health of the community, and he hoped that the measure would be available for that object. He believed that at the present moment Governments would be much better employed in trying to improve the social condition of the inhabitants of the countries over which they ruled, than in adopting revolutionary measures, conceived in chimerical delusions, and aiming at accomplishing that which was impossible.
The DUKE of BUCCLEUCHagreed in all that had fallen from the noble and learned Lord opposite, as to the importance of the present measure, and congratulated their Lordships that it had come up to them with a fair prospect of being passed into law. He did not think it would have been expedient to include the metropolis in the present Bill, but was glad to hear there was a measure for that purpose in preparation, and trusted that it would he speedily brought forward, in order that their Lordships might have an opportunity of knowing what was likely to be enacted, and that the difficulties anticipated as likely to arise in respect of the city of London might be obviated. If the city were not brought under general superintendence equally with the rest of the metropolitan districts, it would be in the power of the local bodies, if their works were not executed in a proper manner, to obstruct the drainage of the whole district. He was happy to express his satisfaction with the measure, so far as it went, and was favourable to giving largo powers for the objects of the Bill; indeed, he apprehended that more stringent powers would be required than were given by the measure on the table.
LORD PORTMANsaid, he was strongly of opinion that Government, and all those persons who had assisted in framing this measure, and especially the noble Lord in the other House (Viscount Morpeth), to whose good feeling and conciliatory conduct its successful progress had been mainly owing, were entitled to the warmest thanks of that House for having brought the Bill before them. He was sure the whole community must rejoice that there was at length a fair prospect of passing a measure for the improvement of the sanitary condition of the people. The Bill contained a provision which was not to be objected to, because there was no other mode of attaining the object. He alluded to the power of levying a rate. There were already twenty-three or twenty-four separate assessments and modes of levying money in the local taxation of the country; and they must regret that it had been found necessary to add another rate—another body of persons for levying this rate—and another set of machinery for assessing the money. He was sure that no subject could be more worthy the attention of that House, or the consideration of Her Majesty's Government, than to devise some mode of carrying out the recommendations of the able report made by the Poor Law Commissioners in 1843, as to consolidating the local rates of this country. They would thus not only get rid of the discrepancies in the various rates, but relieve a great number of persons from the burden of collecting those rates. He believed he was right in stating that the local taxation at the present moment exceeded 20 per cent upon the income-tax valuation of the property of this country. The land tax, the highway rate, the church rate, the poor-rate (which included the county rate), exceeded in the aggregate 10,000,000 l. per annum. That was no less than 23 per cent on the rated value of property in this country, and upon the income-tax valuation it amounted to 11 per cent. Added to that taxation, the borough rate amounted to 2,000,000 l—the charges for turnpike roads to l,659,000 l.—the local courts to more than 100,000 l.—and there was the sewerage rate, the exact amount of which it was difficult to ascertain; and all these sums put together amounted to rather more than 20 per cent on the rated income of the country, estimated at 85,000,000 l. In addition to this, they were now about to impose a further rate for sanitary purposes. Another measure was before the

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other House of Parliament, of which their Lordships would hear something soon, for a new system of highways in this country. That would create a further burden; he-cause, although the Bill was a beneficial one, officers would he appointed under it, by which expense would be incurred. From a report which had lately been laid on their Lordships' table, it appeared that the increase in the poor-rates was frightful. In the year 1834, the last under the old system, the amount of poor-rates was 8,338,000 l., and the price of wheat was 51 s. 11 d., and the number of quarters of wheat required to pay that poor-rate was 3,206,953. In the year 1839, when wheat was at the highest price, according to the averages since 1834, the poor-rates were 5,613,000 l., requiring 1,633,000 quarters of wheat to pay it. In the year 1847, when the price of wheat was 59 s., being 10 s. 4d. less than in 1839, the poor-rates were 6,964,825 l., and instead of 1,633,000 quarters of wheat, 2,360,957 were required to pay that amount. In looking over those papers, he found that there had been a regular annual increase in the expenditure for the relief of the poor and for the charges for medical relief. There had been a regular increase in the fees paid to registrars and various other officers. There had been a regular annual increase in the county rate, and in the amount of medical relief. There had been, happily, a decrease in law charges, owing to a change with reference to poor removals, by which litigation had been avoided. The survey expenses, too, had decreased, but the great items of the poor-rates and county rates had regularly and steadily increased. The relief afforded in workhouses during the last year, had, in proportion to the total relief given in the whole kingdom, increased 15 per cent. In 1840, the total number of paupers in proportion to the population was seven per cent. In 1847 it had increased to ten per cent. He thought, therefore, seeing that the local taxation exceeded 20 per cent, with a probability of its soon reaching 25 per cent, that it became exceedingly important that Parliament and Her Majesty's Government should look carefully into the subject. There was a great amount of property in this country that did not contribute its fair proportion to the maintenance of the poverty of the country; and unless the question was very seriously looked into at a very early period, he was quite sure that great difficulty would arise. No doubt it was very dif-
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ficult to adjust these inequalities; but some attempt ought to be made to do so. He thought that something in the form of a union rate ought to be established; or, at all events, that some plan ought to be adopted by which the area of local taxation should be extended. It was impossible not to see that if all commodities were to become cheaper, the value of the property of the country must fall too. If the annual value of property, which was now 85,000,000 l., should fall to 60,000,000 l., the present rate of local taxation would be 30 per cent; and, he would ask, what would the state of property be then, seeing that, under the present system of local taxation in many well-managed estates, the surplus, after paying those burdens, was nil? He hoped their Lordships would not think he had acted improperly in taking this opportunity of calling their attention to this subject.
The BISHOP of OXFORDsaid, he did not wish to trouble their Lordships with any observations upon this Bill. He merely desired to call the attention of the noble and learned Lord who had charge of the measure to the 74th and 75th sections, for regulating interments within towns. Those clauses took no notice of the provisions of the present law of the country, which required that the consent of the bishop of the diocese should be obtained to the change of parochial burial places. The power given to the boards under this Bill might very easily be abused, for parties who established a private burial ground might take measures to prevent the continuance of interments in churchyards, in order that such interments might take place in the ground in which they were interested. He also considered that the clauses, in their present form, would seriously affect the right of the poor to parochial sepulture, for no provision was made for such cases. He might add, that it afforded him great gratification to find that this Bill had been sent up to their Lordships from the Lower House, for he had a deep conviction of the necessity of such a measure.
LORD REDESDALEsaid, that this Bill would unquestionably render additional local rates necessary; but those rates would—except in very few cases—he paid by persons who would be most materially benefited by the measure.
The DUKE OF ARGYLLcould not allow the second reading of the Bill to pass without expressing his anxious and earnest hope

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that the attention of the Government would be directed to extending the benefits of this measure to the country with which he was more immediately connected. He would venture to say that the great cities of Scotland—Glasgow and Edinburgh—were perhaps in a worse condition with regard to sanitary reform than any cities in England. He congratulated their Lordships upon this Bill having now escaped the difficulties which had surrounded it, and having reached the calmer consideration of their Lordships' House.
LORD CAMPBELLbegged to assure the right rev. Prelate who had spoken on this subject that his suggestions should receive the most respectful consideration of the Government. With regard to the remarks of the noble Duke who had just addressed the House, he (Lord Campbell) could only say that there were at present difficulties in applying a measure of this kind to Scotland, but he hoped that—perhaps in the course of the next Session—that country might enjoy the benefits of sanitary reform.
Bill read 2a.
House adjourned.