Lords Sitting of 10 July 1848

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Ecclesiastical Patronage Suits Compromise (Ireland).
2a Exchange of Ecclesiastical Patronage between Her Majesty and the Earl of Leicester; Payment of Debts out of Real Estate,
PETITIONS PRESENTED. Prom Medical Men in Halifax, in favour of the Public Health Bill.—From Lancaster, and other Places, against the Sale of Intoxicating Liquors on the Sabbath,—From the Chamber of Commerce of Edinburgh, in favour of the Law of Entail (Scotland) Bill.—From Ardconaig, and a great Number of other Places, in Scotland, for Facilitating the Attainment of Sites for Free Churches.—From Birmingham, and Manchester, in favour of the Sale of Beer Regulation Bill.—From an Odd Fellows' Lodge of Dewsbury, for the Extension of the Provisions of the Benefit Societies Act to that Order.—From the Dukinfield Waterworks Company, against the Public Health Bill,—From Ratepayers of the Nenagh Union, for a full Inquiry into the Working of the Irish Poor Law,—From Suffolk, for the Adoption of Measures for the Reformation of Juvenile Offenders.

CLUBS (IRELAND).
LORD BROUGHAMwished to direct the attention of Her Majesty's Government to a subject connected with the present state of matters in Ireland; and, in doing so, he hoped it would be understood that he was not asking for information. He alluded to the organisation of secret clubs of a dangerous character in that country. The well-known existence of these clubs was causing the greatest alarm even among persons of firm minds, as the system of organisation by which they were formed and sustained was very much calculated to lead away the ignorant and unwary. He hoped, therefore, that the attention of Her Majesty's Government was directed to this subject, and to the adoption of means for obviating the dangerous consequences of that kind of agitation in Ireland which had ever been the pest and curse of that unhappy country. He was sure that if the Government wished any means taken to strengthen their hands in this matter, they would find no difficulty

305
either in that or in the other House of Parliament with regard to the passing of any I measures that might be deemed necessary to put an end to such a perilous state of things.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEthought it necessary only to say, that the attention of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland as well as of Her Majesty's Government had been directed to this subject. With respect to the perils of those clubs the existence of which had been referred to by the noble and learned Lord, he believed there could be no difference of opinion.

SCOTCH FREE CHURCH.
The MARQUESS of BREADALBANErose to present 162 petitions, complaining of the refusal of sites for Free churches in Scotland. He had about fifty other petitions to lay before their Lordships, but these he would delay till the Bill respecting sites came from the other House of Parliament. The noble Marquess then quoted several passages from the report of the Committee on Sites, to the effect that they had found on investigation that there were a number of Free Church congregations in Scotland without any place of worship, and which were accustomed in consequence to meet in the open air; that 725 churches had already been built by the Free Church, and that sites had been refused to 35 congregations; and also the hope expressed by the Committee that every just ground of complaint would be speedily removed by those who bad it in their power to redress such grievances. Such was the state of matters when the Committee reported, and he found on inquiry that there were still 35 congregations, including 16,000 people, who were refused sites, so that the grievance existed to as great an extent as it did when the report of the Committee was adopted. He regarded this grievance as inconsistent with the principles of the British constitution; and he regretted to say that it was one which he could not expect all their Lordships to condemn, as there were Members of their Lordships' House who stood among the number of those by whom these sites were refused. He imputed motives to no one; but he trusted that those noble Lords, when they came to know all the circumstances, would no longer consider themselves justified in refusing sites to the Free Church. Would any of their Lordships be justified in taking steps to prevent a man
306
from earning his daily bread? Surely not. Then, how could any man be justified in preventing others from obtaining eternal salvation in the way which their consciences pointed out? No man was entitled to interpose between a man and his Maker and that eternal salvation which God had provided. Who were they to whom sites were refused? They were members of the Free Church of Scotland—that denomination of Christians who from conscientious motives had seceded from the Established Church of that country. This church had 698 ministers, and the number of churches in existence was 701; 241 manses were built, and 53 more building. Since their rupture with the Establishment they had raised, for purely religious and educational purposes in 1843–4, 363,713 l.; in 1844–5,344,483 l.; in 1845–6,301,000 l.; in 1846–7, 311,698 l.; and in 1847–8, 276,493 l., making in all a total of 1,600,000 l. in round numbers. Having thus brought this grievance under their Lordships' notice, and having stated what this Christian people had done, he hoped that they would obtain that redress which a British Legislature should afford to British subjects, when they had occasion to complain of infringements upon their rights and privileges. The noble Marquess then presented the petitions.
House adjourned.