THE WEST INDIES.

HL Deb 07 February 1848 vol 96 cc171-218

LORD STANLEY

said: My Lords, four petitions have been placed in my hands; and I think it will be the course most convenient to the House that I should, in presenting those petitions, not only lay before your Lordships the statements which they contain, but endeavour, at the same time, to bring some other circumstances connected with the subject under your notice. I am desirous of stating as fully as I can the state of the West Indies, and the condition of the sugar trade—the alarming condition of both—and the remedies which the parties interested suggest for the relief of the evils under which they suffer. I will state those remedies; and I think it further my duty to state the extent to which I concur with the petitioners, so far, at least, as I have been able to form any opinion. The first of these petitions is from the members of the West India Association at Liverpool; and that petition does, to a certain extent, exhibit the reasonings and the statements contained in the other petitions. All the petitioners concur in representing the state of the sugar trade as most depressed and alarming; and they all concur in representing this state of things as induced by the acts and policy of the British Government, more especially by the operation of the Bill of 1846, admitting the importation of foreign slave-grown sugar into this country in competition with the free-labour sugar of our colonies. The Liverpool Association conclude by a statement that the ruin of which the petitioners complain, is now in active progress; and, unless relief be speedily afforded, there is every reason to apprehend that that ruin will soon be finally consumated. The petitioners impute much of the sufferings and difficulties under which the colonies now labour, to the inconsistent course of legis- lation by Parliament; and that, in consequence, the petitioners were utterly at a loss to know what course to pursue. They threw themselves on the consideration of Parliament, and implored their Lordships at the earliest period to let them know what measures were in contemplation with reference to the colonial possessions in the West Indies. They said, if it was determined to persevere in the course Government had been advised to adopt, that they hoped, in mercy to them, Government would let them know their fate at once, and say whether it was their determination to pass an irrevocable sentence by which the British colonies were to cease to produce free-labour sugar; and that hence-forward this great necessary of life was to be obtained from the produce of slave labour. Such a course would, in their opinion, inflict a less severe blow on their interests than the protracted agony of inconsistent legislation. I concur for the most part in the allegations of the petitioners; I doubt not that most men would do so who looked into the details and documents with which I have been furnished; and it is my settled conviction that any man who looks into the subject will agree with me that the state of the West India colonies is most embarrassing and alarming. I concur with the petitioners in the belief that the unfortunate state of these colonies has been brought on by the legislation of Parliament; and I concur with the petitioners when they say, that, having surmounted a great difficulty, cast on them by the Legislature—of which difficulty I should be the last to complain—but after they had overcome this difficulty, and had the greatest reason to rely on the continuance of protection from the British Legislature—at that moment, when they believed the extent of their trials was known, and the extent of their difficulties ascertained—at that moment, when they received the greatest amount of encouragement, when they had been induced to embark yet larger amounts of capital upon the good faith of British legislation, there came a sudden change in the course of that legislation, which in the highest degree aggravated the evils by which they were surrounded. That is a case which the West Indian interest can substantiate—of that they demand remedy and redress. I propose to state their case, and to substantiate it. On such a question I hope to be permitted to enter a little more at length into the evidence, for I feel that this is a question of vital importance. With regard to the allegations of the petitioners as to the present state of the West Indian colonies, I feel it is hardly necessary to trouble your Lordships with any statements in proof of their accuracy. The West Indian Committee have sufficiently proved that the condition of the colonies is the effect of past legislation. All classes are embarrassed—the merchant and planter find themselves in similar difficulties. Bach feels reluctant to abandon his property, and yet all feel, under the present wasting conflict, unless some remedies are proposed, that ruin would be the result. That, my Lords, is a general statement made by persons perfectly competent to give it on this subject. But, my Lords, it may be possible that individual cases may have more weight with your Lordships, and give you a better idea of the distress that exists at this moment in the West Indies, than any form of general allegation which I could adduce. And, my Lords, I hope I may be permitted on the present occasion to read a statement which I hold in my hand to your Lordships, in reference to an individual case of this description. It is made by a gentleman of the highest respectability, now resident in this country, and ready to substantiate it, if necessary. The noble Lord then proceeded to read the statement in question, which was to this effect:— My estates descended to me from my father, and have been in our possession upwards of seventy years: thirty-two of these years they have belonged to me, and I have great experience of their capabilities. My nephew, the eldest son of the family, has for many years resided on the properties, with his wife, and manages them most ably. The estates are situated in the most fertile part of the east coast of Demerara, and the land yields more than 1½hhd. of sugar per acre. They are free from mortgage. They have the finest machinery both for the drainage of the lands and for manufacture of sugar, and have three steam engines at work upon them. They have a fine people residing upon them, who, from being partners in the profits of the estates, and from long attachment to the family, work willingly and steadily. The weather this last year has been most propitious to the cultivation, and the land has yielded well. The one estate has produced 500 hogsheads of sugar, and 250 puncheons of rum. The other estate 400 hogsheads of sugar, and 200 puncheons of rum. The hogsheads on both estates are what are called heavy hogsheads, averaging a ton weight gross, or 1,600 cwt. net. From the 1st January to the 1st July, 1847, the prices of sugar ranged from 21l. to 18l. per hogshead; from 1st July, 1847, to 1st January, 1848, they ranged from 13l. to 11l.per hogshead, the last price I received being 11l. 14s. per hogshead. By the periods named you will perceive that the great drop in the price of sugar took place simultaneously with the admission of slave-grown sugar, and previous to the monetary crisis. In the extract I send you from my account book, I give you the current expenses alone, and omit all casualties, although they ought to be considered, as each year there are some:—

PLANTATION, NO. 1.
500 hhds. Sugar	£6272	9	11
250 puns, rum	3250	0	0
	£ 9522	9	11
Disbursements of estate in labour, stores, and colonial expenses	£ 11,000	0	0
Showing a loss to the estate of	£1478	0	0

PLANTATION, NO. 2.
400 hhds. Sugar	£5550	7	5
200 puns, rum	2600	0	0
	£8150	7	5
Disbursements of estate for stores, labour, and colonial expenses	£8407	0	0
Showing a loss to the estate of	£256	12	7"

The difference (proceeded the noble Lord) he accounts for, by stating that the sugar raised upon the one was sold by previous engagement, made before the period at which the Legislature had lowered the duty, and along with it the price of sugar in this country: the other was sold at the current rates. My Lords, that is the statement of an individual case, and I have been assured this morning by a gentleman connected with the West Indies, that neither in Demerara, Jamaica, nor Trinidad, the great sugar-producing colonies, is it possible to raise 1,000l. on the security of any property situate there. That is the state in which the West Indian proprietors represent themselves as being placed; and this they attribute to your legislation. My Lords, I must, with your permission, to do justice to my case, go back to a period somewhat earlier than the present; and I hope I may be forgiven, if, with the recollection of the part I took in the settlement of the slavery question, I am anxious to place the state of the West Indies, before and subsequent to the Emancipation Act of 1833, before your Lordships on this occasion. The Act of 1833 declared the utter and entire abolition of slavery at the end of a certain period. That Act was accompanied, my Lords, by a grant, magnificent in amount, as far as the sacrifices made by this country were concerned—a grant which, inasmuch as it was entirely consistent with the claims of justice, policy, and humanity, I shall never be ashamed of having submitted to Parliament; and I am proud that Parliament was induced to consent to it, since thereby that great act of humanity was not stained by a corresponding act of injustice. But, my Lords, great as the sum of 20,000,000l., the amount of that grant, was—great and unanimous as was the sacrifice made by this nation to justice, to policy, and to humanity, on that occasion—and I look upon it as the greatest pecuniary sacrifice ever made by any commercial nation to humanity and justice—formed, after all, but an inadequate compensation for the vast amount of injury inflicted by its operation upon the West Indian planters. And, my Lords, nothing can be more unjust and unfounded than the allegations which have been made by certain parties not conversant with the circumstances of the case, that by this grant of 20,000,000l. the claims of the West Indian proprietors upon this country were totally extinguished, and their case, as regards all further consideration, closed. Let me remind you that when that Bill was first introduced to Parliament, it was the intention of His Majesty's Government on the occasion to give 15,000,000l.,which was subsequently increased to 20,000,000l., for the purpose of pecuniary compensation to the planters, together with a period termed apprenticeship, but in reality modified slavery, for twelve years—I may speak of apprenticeship now in these terms, because the prejudice that then existed exists no longer; and I may describe it as what it actually was—modified slavery—I mean so far modified slavery as this, that a portion of compulsory labour was given to the masters during that period, and that they had a right to a certain amount of the services of the negro. It had been intended to accompany the grant, as I have stated, with a premium of twelve years' modified slavery; and this was the modification proposed. It was proposed that the negro should work three-fourths of the day, or seven hours, for his master; the other fourth being reserved for himself, in which to earn, by his independent labour, the means of purchasing at an earlier period his own manumission, if he chose to effect it. And, my Lords, I believe it would have been to the advantage of the negro himself, as well as to that of the West Indies, if that proposition had been adopted; because while it would have lessened the loss to the planter, by its gradual charac- ter, it would have promoted in the negro those habits of industry and self-reliance, without which no population is important to a country. But a different conclusion was come to by the House of Commons on the subject. The House of Commons determined that the negro should contribute nothing towards his own liberation; and it then proceeded to reduce the twelve years of apprenticeship to seven years' duration. It has been said that the 20,000,000l. given on that occasion were as a compensation for that period of time, as well as for the redemption of slavery; but those who remember the debates will remember that the apprenticeship period was held to be practically as much a portion of compensation as the sum in question. In that form the Act was passed. Subsequently, however, it was determined by Parliament that even the limited period of apprenticeship, fixed under its provisions, should not be permitted to expire naturally; and by a certain degree of compulsion on the West Indian proprietors, it was put an end to in August, 1838, though it should have continued in the ordinary course of things until August, 1840. During this period of anxious discussion on the subject, if there was one point more clearly laid down and assented to than another, it was this—that one great object of the abolition of slavery would be frustrated if there should be a cessation of the manufacture of sugar in the British West India colonies. It was never conceived possible by the West Indian interest, that after taking away from the proprietors of the West Indies the benefit and advantages of slave labour, you would now proceed to place them on the same footing, as free-labour colonies, with colonies where slave labour is permitted, and then say that they have had compensation. Nay, more, it was over and over again urged in the course of these discussions, that though the production of sugar under the free-labour system might be comparatively limited, still that the monopoly of the English market, which the proprietors of West India estates would have, would make good that deficiency to them by the increased price of the production in the market. I do not wish to trouble the House with many figures, but I shall now, with the permission of your Lordships, read from a statement which I hold in my hand—a statement of the production of the West Indies previous to emancipation; also during the period of ap- prenticeship; and, finally, since the establishment of the system of free labour in those colonies. My noble Friend on the other side of the House, in reference to these facts, is stated to have said that the worst result of the present condition of things in the West Indies would be, that they might cease to be sugar-producing colonies. I cannot, however, I confess, look upon the possibility of such a contingency as that occurrence contemplates with the same calm philosophy as my noble Friend. This, my Lords, is a statement of the amount of sugar produced in the West Indies antecedent to the Emancipation Act—that is to say, from 1815 to 1832 inclusive. And this is the point which I wish to impress upon your Lordships' minds in connexion with it—namely, that until the Emancipation Act passed, the West Indies produced a larger quantity of sugar than was consumed in this country; and that, therefore, there was no monopoly, because the surplus sold in the continental market regulated the price of the supply in this country. That which is true of the whole period in this return is true of each single year of that period; and, my Lords, there is no year of that period in which the production of the colonies did not exceed the entire amount of sugar consumed in this country. In these eighteen years 67,707,430 cwts. of sugar were produced in the West Indies, while the consumption amounted to 57,426,679 cwts. The yearly average produce 3,761,511 cwts.; the yearly average consumption 3,281,011 cwts. The highest produce in any year was 4,313,430 cwts.; the lowest was 3,435,061 cwts. The average, as I have already stated was 3,761,511 cwts. The highest consumption was 3,781,011 cwts.; the lowest was 1,726,896 cwts.; and the average was 3,212,593 cwts., showing a gross excess of 10,280,522 cwts.; and an average excess of 573,462 cwts. of supply over demand. From 1833 to 1838 was the period of apprenticeship, and in those years the produce and consumption bore the following relation:—

Gross produce	13,951,137 cwts.
Gross consumption	19,209,436 cwts.
Average produce	3,487,784 cwts.
Average consumption	3,802,709 cwts.

Therefore, instead of a surplus of production over consumption, there was a gross deficiency of 1,258,298 cwts., and an average deficiency of 314,575 cwts. I shall now come to the operation of the free-labour system—that is to say, to the effect of the five years from 1839 to 1843 inclusive. In the first year the fall in the quantity of produce was from 3,521,434 cwts. to 2,823,931 cwts. In the next year it fell to 2,202,833 cwts.; and the year after it fell to 2,148,218 cwts. In the time of slavery, your Lordships will bear in mind that the average produce was 3,761,511 cwts., and in the period of apprenticeship 3,487,784; while in that of free-labour it was only 2,438,681 cwts. It did so happen that during the twelve years subsequent to emancipation in the West Indies, compared with the twelve years previous, there had been an increase in the price of sugar, which indemnified to some extent the West India planter for the reduction in the amount of produce. From 1823 to 1834 the average price was 29s. 5d. per cwt., while from 1835 to 1847 it was 38s. This difference made up in a great degree for the diminished production to the West Indies as a body, but not to the West India proprietor; for not only was the production of sugar on his estates diminished, but the price of labour to him has been extraordinarily increased. The difference went from the pockets of the planter to those of the labourer in this instance; and if there be a population on the face of the earth in a state of greater comfort than another, it is the negro peasantry of the West Indies—and I may say, in passing, that as far as moral conduct and good behaviour are concerned, none better deserve it. I saw a letter addressed to a noble Friend of mine, this day, stating the cost of production at different periods, from 1830 to 1846, inclusive, and it was as follows:—From 1830 to 1834, it was 4s. 5d. per cwt.; from 1834 to 1838, which was the period of apprenticeship, it was 6s. 7d.; from 1838 to 1842, it was 16s. 11d.; and from 1842 to 1846, it was 21s. 7d. The petition that I have presented to your Lordships, coupled with this information, leads me to conclude that from 20s. to 22s. per cwt. is not far from the average expense of the production of sugar in the West Indies at this moment. The petition from Trelawney states 20s., exclusive of freight and other charges—of which 13s. 4d. go to the labourers, while the remainder, viz., 6s. 8d., is all that is left to the planter to meet the disbursements of the estate. I have made those statements, my Lords, for the purpose of showing your Lordships that at a very early period of that legislation for these colonies—especially that period in which slavery was abolished, an act in which I concur and rejoice—the Legislature of this country imposed grave practical difficulties and obstructions in the way of the sugar-planters of the West Indies; and I insist that for this reason they have now a distinct claim upon the consideration of Parliament. Not withstanding, however, these difficulties—notwithstanding the increased expense of cultivation, the proprietors of estates in our West Indian colonies did not absolutely despair of receiving compensation for their outlay in consequence of free labour, because they relied upon the solemn assurance of the Parliament that protection should be afforded them. They had seen East Indian sugar introduced into this country on the same footing as the produce of the West Indies; they had also seen Mauritius sugar brought in on the same footing; but still they only desired that you, having crippled their right hand, as it were, by taking away from them the benefits of slave labour, should give them that amount of protection which was necessary to secure them against the competition of slave-grown sugar. They had no reason to believe that Parliament did not intend to afford them protection against all competition up to 1840, although in that year the highest price that had been obtained for sugar—viz., 48s. 2d., became the subject of discussion. On that occasion the Parliament, acting under the instigation of the then Prime Minister of the Crown, refused to entertain a Motion made by one of the ordinary supporters of the Government, and declared that, in honour and justice, it was bound to maintain the existing protection to the West Indies. Even at that time the noble Lord at the head of the Colonies decided to continue that protection. The House of Commons, however, declared that they would not admit slave-grown sugar for home consumption, in competition with the produce of free labour in own colonies; and a general election was the consequence, in which that declaration was sanctioned by the vote of a large majority of the people of this country. I ask whether, under these circumstances, the West Indian proprietors were not bound to have confidence, and consider themselves safe in extending their operations—to have reliance on the good faith of Parliament to protect them from foreign competition? Under such circumstances has not the British merchant a right to rely that he might safely invest capital upon consignments of the produce of that soil to which procection had been thus solemnly guaranteed? Therefore, my Lords in the year 1845, it was thought expedient—and I concurred in the vote—at once to reduce the amount of duty chargeable upon the produce of our own colonies, thereby to stimulate the consumption of it; and it was also deemed advisable to permit competition with those countries against which it could not be alleged that they had the advantage of possessing slave labour. There was some modification of the Bill of 1844 introduced in 1845, and that strengthens my case; because, as in 1844, so in 1845, when the measure was brought under the deliberation of Parliament, with a view to an alteration of the law, the principle was laid down that slave-grown sugar should be prohibited from being introduced into this country; or, at least, put upon such a footing with regard to duties as to operate in effect as a prohibition. My Lords, these were the circumstances under which your planters were encouraged to increase their operations, the colonies to incur enormous expenses with a view to the immigration of free labour, and the inexhaustible resources of the East Indies thrown open—all with the same object alike—viz., to contribute the increased quantity which was necessary to meet the consumption of this country. Thus it was that the merchant thought he might place reliance on the faith of Parliament for the security of his advances, without which the cultivation of sugar could not be carried on; and it was under these circumstances that by the sudden and rapid change of policy in 1846, not only was slave-labour sugar introduced into competition with British free-labour sugar, but also released from that discriminating differential duty which in 1840 the same Minister had deemed to be expedient and indispensable for the protection of the colonies. Instead of the discriminating duty of 12s., there was imposed one only of 7s., which was to be diminished year by year, until after the lapse of six years, when it placed the slaveholding countries of Cuba and Brazil upon precisely the same footing as our own colonies, with this exception, that Cuba and Brazil have an unlimited supply of that efficient labour which you say your own colonies shall not have. The Act of 1846, then, is in effect a bounty given to slavery; and at the same time that you thus hold out an invitation and encouragement to slavery, you squander the lives and waste the energies of your seamen upon the pestilential coast of Africa, in vain attempts to suppress the slave trade—attempts which you yourselves admit to be most unsuccessful—nay, so utterly and hopelessly unsuccessful, that the evil intended to be put down, has, through them, become every day more and more aggravated. You go to all this expense—this outlay of life and money—for the purpose of putting down the African coast slave trade, while at the same time you are, by your unwise legislation, putting millions into the pockets of the slaveowners, of Cuba and Brazil wherewith to foster that same trade. Now, mark what has been the consequence:—In 1835, you introduced a supply from the East Indies and the Mauritius, which in the case of the latter has, under your encouragement, increased its production to an amount, last year, exceeding by 60,000 tons the produce of the former period. But, in the case of India, the increase is still more remarkable, and these are pretty nearly the results. The total exports from India in the year 1834–5 were of the value of 1,526,475l., while in 1846–7 they were 4,459,422l.; showing an increase of 2,932,947l. Of these the exports in 1834–5, of sugar, were of the value of 134,226l., while in 1846–7 they amounted to 1,690,032l.;thus showing that under your system of encouragement the increase of export in that single article of sugar amounted to 1,555,805l.—an amount exceeding the total exports of all descriptions from India in 1834–5. That was the progress which had been made in the cultivation of sugar in India at the period of your last change; and at present sugar is almost the only article of great produce in India which is made by ryots themselves, and upon their own grounds. It is a produce capable of indefinite extension, provided there be a certain price for it in the British market. But the moment that price falls below that certain amount, immediately the supply from India was cut off, for the simple reason, that unless the price in England exceeded, in a certain ratio, the price offered in the markets of India, the population there retained and consumed all the sugar themselves. Thus, for instance, if in Calcutta the price was 22s. the sugar would come to this country; but if in this country the price fell below that, and only 20s. could be obtained in the Calcutta market, the export would cease, and then not only was there the loss of these large remittances from India, but there was a loss of freight to the mercan- tile navy usually engaged in the trade, and, in addition, a great market was utterly closed to our manufacturers at home. This point is an important one. Now, let me call your Lordships' attention to this last point on which I have touched. I have stated the increase of sugar exports from India to this country. Is it unaccompanied by corresponding benefits to the British manufacturer? The total exports to India in the year 1834–5 amounted to 1,574,182l.; in 1846–7 they amounted to 4,241,072l.;; increase 2,666,690l. And in what way was that increase brought about? The advocates of free trade were urging on your Lordships in the course of that policy, and your Lordships will now see the result. My Lords, of the 1,574,182l. imported into India in 1834–5, the value of the cotton manufactures was 735,687l.; while of the 4,241,072l. imported in 1846–7, the cotton manufactures amounted to 3,087,135l.; showing an increase in the import of British manufactures into India during those ten years of the value of 2,351,447l. Thus while the increase of the total imports into India in that period amounted to 2,666,690l., the cotton manufactures alone amounted to 2,351,447l. I am, therefore, my Lords, justified in saying that the continuance of the supply of sugar from our East Indian possessions is an object of deep importance to the general interests of the country, and to the manufacturing, mercantile, and maritime interests of the empire. But while these results have been produced under your encouragement—and your own merchants and colonists, your fellow-countrymen, have exerted themselves to the utmost in applying their skill and capital to an amount beyond what was oven prudent under the circumstances, in the hope that having secured the British market they would be enabled to supply an infinitely larger amount of sugar than before—what has been the consequence of your sudden change of policy, without any previous notice or indication of it? Why, the consequence has been that this large importation of sugar has only led, in their case, to ruinous losses on the part of both merchants and planters, and to the bankruptcy of your colonies; 500,000 cwts. of sugar were imported from the British colonies last year, and the price was generally 37s. This year the price has been as low as 21s., and now it is 23s. This fall of price, I do not hesitate to say, is the direct result of your legislation of 1846. But although there has been a fall with us of from 10s. to 12s. per cwt., in the market of Cuba, there has been no fall at all, but rather an actual rise in price. The price of sugar as between the Cuban and British West Indian proprietor has risen 35 per cent in favour of the former upon the cost of the article. There was a great deal said of the gain to the manufacturers by the large exports to Asia; and, according to their own theory, the result ought to have been the same to the Brazils and to Cuba. But no such thing has happened. Let the experience of the sixteen months previous to September, 1846, and of the sixteen months subsequent be tested, and how did the account stand? To Brazil, Cuba, and Porto Rico, in the first period, the exports had been 2,308,000l., and in the second 2,477,000l.; thus, while they measured the exports to Asia by the million, the increase to the slave-labour countries amounted only to just 169,000l. upon the aggregate sum of 2,500,000l. In the meantime, what have been the exports to your own colonies during the same periods? I find in the first period of sixteen months, our exports to India, Mauritius, and the British West Indies, were of the value of 5,479,855l.; while in the second period they were 4,140,629l., being a decrease of 1,339,224l. to set against the increase to Cuba, Porto Rico, and Brazil, of 168,082l., which leaves an actual loss of trade on balance of 1,171,142l. I think, then, my Lords, I have established a case to show that our sugar-growing colonies have been and are still subjected to injurious legislation at our hands; but that the great and crying evil under which they have been labouring, and under which they must continue to labour, until they finally sink beneath it, is the flagrant injustice, by the Act of 1846, of the introduction of slave-grown sugar. The petitioners in their prayer re quest the mitigation of this evil; and although there is some difference in the nature of their demands, they all concur in requesting an abundant supply of free labour by immigration from Africa; the equalisation of the duties on rum and spirits; the admission of molasses into breweries and distilleries; and the remission of the duty at present existing upon British colonial sugar admitted into this country. The petitioners from Demerara also ask a loan for the purpose of thorough draining; and the petitioners from Jamaica demand the repeal of the navigation laws. I cannot see what advantage the people of Jamaica can derive from the repeal of those laws, while I perceive much injury to this country from the adoption of such a measure; and I cannot here but observe, if every important interest of the country is to succumb one after another—if the agricultural interest, the West Indian interest, and, lastly, the maritime interest of this country are all to be abandoned before the spirit of reckless innovation, I do not see where we shall stop, or what is to arrest us in the career of destruction. The West Indian colonist may say, "You place us on a level with the slaveholding countries, except in the restrictions upon slave-labour; remove this, and don't talk to us about your distilleries and breweries in England, and your seamen, your merchants and landed proprietors, your maritime and your agricultural interest; you have passed the Rubicon of free trade, and you must play the game out to the end; and we claim from you that there shall be no restriction what ever put upon us bringing our produce in the cheapest possible way to the dearest available market." The colonists may thus address you. But I, my Lords, do not abandon the ancient policy of this country, and I hope to see the Legislature again return to it. And with respect to the repeal of the navigation laws, I do not think the measure would benefit the West Indies. Admitting that the consequence of the repeal of those laws would be, to throw the carrying trade between the colonies and ourselves into the hands of the United States, which I believe would be the case, I do not see how the West Indies would be benefited by the transfer to the vessels of slaveholding countries of the conveyances of the pro duce of Cuba and Brazil, which is at present mainly carried, I believe, by British vessels. The abolition of the privilege of the carriage to this country of the produce of Cuba and Brazil, which the navigation laws now give to the ships of this country, could only lead to a monopoly of that carrying trade on the part of slaveholding countries; and this, I repeat, I cannot see would be of any advantage to the West Indies. I will not enter on the question of another demand that the petitioners make—namely, that their sugar and me lasses should be introduced to the breweries and distilleries of this country, and that their rum should be introduced at an equal rate of duty with that which is imposed on British spirits. I will only say, with regard to this subject, that here is another lamentable instance of the vacillation and uncertainty which paralyse all our mercantile and commercial enterprises, by the course which has been taken by the Government and Parliament of this country. I am told that the Government have intimated their readiness to consent to the introduction of molasses into distilleries, and to the equalisation of the duties upon colonial rum and British spirits. But, bear in mind, that these very questions were subjects of repeated and anxious investigation in the course of the last Session, and that the Chancellor of the Exchequer then stated that molasses could not by possibility be introduced into distilleries without absolute loss and ruin to the Excise, and that it would be impossible to provide for the difficulty. Again, with regard to rum and spirits; that was a question very keenly discussed with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who contended that it was only fair that the British distiller should have a differential duty in his favour. My Lords, one other subject to which I shall advert, is that of immigration. The question of an unbounded supply of labour has had much stress laid upon it, and it is hardly necessary for me to say that a large supply of labour for any colony must have a material influence, by the reduction of wages, upon the prices of the articles produced in that colony. But, in the first place, I very much doubt whether it will be practicable for the West Indian colonists to procure such a supply of free labour from the coast of Africa as to produce any sensible effect on the wages of labour in the colony. I am most anxious to furnish the colonies with the necessary supply of labour, provided it can be furnished in such a manner as not to be inconsistent with higher and more important considerations. During the time that I had the honour to hold the seals of the Colonial Department, I endeavoured to meet the demand of the West Indian proprietors with regard to the introduction of labour; and I feel some satisfaction when I recollect that, in the latter end of the year 1841, we framed a measure for effecting a large importation of Coolie labourers into the Mauritius. As to Coolie immigration to the West Indies, I confess that I was never very sanguine in the hope that the introduction of Coolies there would be attended with much advantage. It is to Africa that the West Indian proprietors should look; but for the West Indian planters and merchants themselves to go to any portion of the coast of Africa, not subject to the control and authority of the British Government, and there to enlist emigrants from amongst the barbarous tribes on that coast, for the purpose of making them free labourers in the colonies—I will not say that this would be a revival of the slave trade—but it would afford to foreign countries a great and reasonable cause of jealousy if they are not prepared to draw the same fine distinctions that we do. Though I admit to the fullest extent the benefit of the freedom which the immigrants would enjoy on their arrival in the West Indies, yet I very much doubt whether it would be practicable to obtain the remedy upon which so much stress is laid, without practically reviving a slave trade, which, although not a slave trade for the purpose of making slaves, yet would be an encouragement to all those intestine wars in Africa, which have hitherto been the effect of the slave trade. The petition from British Guiana states, "that from circumstances arising out of the social condition of the Africans in their own country, it is impossible to procure them in sufficient numbers without negotiating with and conciliating their chiefs, in order to induce them to permit their vassals and dependents to emigrate to the British settlements." Well, my Lords, if, when out of the control and authority of the British Government, British merchants are to go to the African coast and there obtain free labourers, they will only obtain them, not by communicating with the parties themselves, but by "negotiating with and conciliating," that is, paying "their chiefs for permitting," that is, selling, "their vassals and dependants" to go out as free labourers. I ask for no differential duties as against the West Indian colonies on the part of this country—I do not ask for distillers here, or agriculturists here, that their fellow-countrymen in the colonies should be placed under disadvantages—I desire not to throw any impediment, on the contrary I wish to give every facility, to the increase of immigration of free labour to the West Indies. I do not object to the introduction of the produce of our colonies into the breweries and distilleries of this country; but I desire to ask the question, whether you intend also to introduce in like manner the produce of Cuba and Brazil? Upon the whole question my opinion is firm and decided, that—do what you will, apply what palliatives you please, it is impossible—the result of the first year has shown it—that, in the present state of the West Indies and our other colonies in every part of the world, they can, upon equal terms, compete with the slave produce of Brazil and Cuba. You have now on hand a larger stock of sugar than was ever known. And the competition of slave-labour produce has supplanted and thrown out of the market, where there was a demand for it, the produce of your own colonies, to the extent of 36,000 tons. At the present moment the planters in the colonies, and merchants here, are almost afraid to speak of their losses. I may mention one case of a single house, whose transactions were of the most extensive character, and whose misfortunes are now publicly known—I allude to the house of Reid, Irving, and Co. They had con signed to them this year, if I am not greatly mistaken, no less than 10,000 tons of sugar, the produce of estates in the Mauritius, for the cultivation of which they had advanced the means, and are responsible; and the fall of prices imposed upon that house alone a permanent loss of at least 100,000l. a year, or, measured at the rate of 10 per cent interest, an aggregate loss of no less than 1,000,000l. sterling. Now their loss is the immediate result and consequence of your legislation. In 1840 you said the West Indian proprietors could not compete with foreign slave produce under a 12s. differential duty. And what is the differential duty now? Seven shillings! Within the last six months you have paid to Cuba, and to other foreign countries producing sugar by slave labour, 625,000l. for the produce of their slave labour, over and above what you have paid in any former year. You have raised the price of sugar in Brazil and Cuba by your legislation; but you have made it ruinously low in your own colonies. You boast of having lowered the price of sugar to the extent of 10s. the cwt.; but are you sure that your triumph will be durable? Are you sure that present prices will last? Are you sure that, when, by the encouragement you have given to Cuba, you shall have discouraged your merchants and disheartened the colonists, so that they will no longer continue planting—are you sure that succeeding years may not find you deprived of the sugar from your colonies, and yourselves at the mercy of the slave-producing countries?—that you, with your professions of humanity and justice, have transferred slavery from your own colonies to the possessions of other countries; and that then all your notions of humanity—all your notions of religion—and all your love of freedom—evaporate at once before the temptation of a penny a pound on sugar—that penny a pound being the result of your "penny wise and pound foolish" legislation—the result, moreover, of all your inconsistency, folly, and pride. Why, if you mean to encourage slave-grown sugar, in God's name withdraw your squadron on the coast of Africa, and put a stop to the continued waste of human life! But you will find in the end that you have not accomplished your object; that you have not secured even the miserable been of cheap sugar to the people of this country; that you have not stopped but encouraged slavery and the slave trade, whilst you have effected the entire ruin of your own colonies. If you are determined not to change the course which you were induced to take in 1846, at all events let there he a postponement of the ruinous reductions which you further contemplate. But if no other remedy can be devised for the relief of the West Indies, then recur to the national principle of keeping out slave grown sugar by the imposition of differential duties. I freely admit that the West Indian colonies stand in a different position from any other of our colonies, and that they have additional and strong claims to the imposition of differential duties. But I should be concealing my opinion if I did not also say that I have not altered my opinions, and have seen no reason to alter them, but quite the contrary, with regard to that general policy of free trade to which, one after the other, all the great interests of this country are to be sacrificed. Now I, for one, have not bowed down to this idol of noble Lords opposite; for I regard their idol as a very sorry idol, after all. It has a front of brass, but the remainder of the image is composed of even a baser and more brittle material. And I believe that Her Majesty's Government will at length find that they have been following a phantom to their own destruction, by bringing ruin upon themselves and upon the great colonial interests of the country. The noble Lord then presented the petitions.

EARL GREY

said, that he was deeply impressed with the importance of the subject which had been introduced to their Lordships' notice by the noble Lord. He was hound to admit that distress did exist in the West Indies—that it was most severe and most painful—and that he feared the accounts given of it by the noble Lord were in the main quite correct. In this he concurred with the noble Lord, and could assure the House that it was impossible for any one to regret more sincerely than he (Earl Grey) did that such distress existed. But the noble Lord had gone on to say that he agreed with the petitioners in opinion that this distress had been brought upon them by the legislation of the British Parliament. Upon this subject he entirely differed from the noble Lord, and he thought he could show good grounds for differing from him. In the first place, he must take leave to remark that while he admitted the existence of West Indian distress, he must also say that it was greatly aggravated by the peculiar circumstances of the present times. The West Indian interests were suffering in common with every other branch of trade and industry from the general state of affairs in this country. The noble Lord himself would agree in the truth of the observation, that the existing state of affairs and general causes had had much to do with the distress prevailing in the West Indies. The fall of price on many other articles—and these articles of a kind which made them a fair subject for comparison with sugar—had not been less serious than the fall in the price of sugar. For instance, there was the fall in the price of tea, sago, rice, and other articles. And when the noble Lord attributed the existing distress to the measure of 1846, let him (Earl Grey) remind the noble Lord that for several months after the enactment of that mea sure by which foreign sugar was admitted for consumption on more favourable terms, the sugar market was not in a worse state than before, but that, on the contrary, not a year ago, the price was considered to be rather more favourable. There was no doubt that the general paralysis experienced by trade and commerce had checked the power of consumption in this country; and this accounted for a portion, at all events, of the distress which now prevailed among the West India interest. At the same time, whilst he made this admission, he also felt, with the noble Lord, that there were causes operating on the West Indies of a more special and permanent character. The noble Lord, in the speech he made that night, had contradicted his own clients; and he had said that which was in contradiction to all the letters he (Earl Grey) had received for the last nine months, and to all the pamphlets—and there had been many—which had been published during the same period of time. The distress was not dated by these writers from the year 1846, but from a much earlier period. It was only the day before he himself had received a letter, which stated that up to 1838 the West Indian estates had been prosperous, but since then they had been in a different condition. Now, his opinion was, the distress of the West Indian interest dated from a much earlier period than 1838. He had a lively recollection of the noble Lord, in the House of Commons, describing the condition of the West Indian colonies in that year, and that he then said that for nearly half a century previous there had been alternations of short periods of delusive prosperity and long periods of extreme distress. He thought that his noble Friend himself could not have forgotten that he had so expressed himself, and that he sup ported that statement by a document of a remarkable description—namely, a report of a Committee of the House of Assembly of Jamaica. Whilst dwelling upon these facts, he wished to be understood as being quite ready to admit that since the period of the abolition of slavery in the West Indies, the period of prosperity had ceased, and that distress, which had formerly been frequent, was now continuous. Since 1838 it was, he admitted, impossible to show that there was anything like prosperity amongst the general body of the West Indian colonies, because there were some exceptions to be found even to that observation. The speech that had been made by the noble Lord rendered it necessary for him to trouble their Lordships with stating what, in his opinion, were the true causes of the distress; and in doing so he had no hesitation in saying that the great and the real cause of the distress which weighed upon the West Indian colonies was the mistake which the Parliament here had made in its legislation of 1833. He believed that the mistake they had made in their manner of carrying emancipation was the true, the original, cause of that distress. He objected to the measure proposed in 1833, when it was brought forward, because he saw how it would work. The consequences that he then anticipated had since happened, with this single exception—that, on the whole, the measure had worked less ill than he anticipated it would have done; and more sugar had been produced under its operation than he had supposed there would have been produced. He did not wish to revive old and almost forgotten controversies with the noble Lord opposite; and he should not now refer to them if they did not bear so strongly on the arguments which he meant to address to their Lord ships. With this apology for now referring to them, he asked what was the great fault of the measure of 1833? He thought the measure was defective in this—that, instead of making any provision for the obvious consequences likely to follow from emancipation, it left the negroes without any adequate motive to labour. The apprenticeship had that night been admitted by the noble Lord to be a modified kind of slavery; but when he (Earl Grey) had said so in 1833, his assertion was treated by the noble Lord as if he had given utterance to an absurdity. But, however, the noble Lord now admitted it was a modified kind of slavery. Instead of dealing at once with the difficulties of the case—instead of taking some means to bring to bear on the mind of the negro an adequate stimulus, when the stimulus by which he had hitherto worked was withdrawn—instead of doing this, you contented yourself with merely adjourning the difficulty for a period of a few years, and by doing so you aggravated all the difficulties by which, under any circumstances, the momentous change must be inevitably accompanied. He owned that he was surprised to hear the noble Lord opposite say, that in 1833 he (Earl Grey) was of opinion that emancipation should take place without precaution. The pre cautions were indispensable, and the noble Lord did not provide them. What he did say was this, that Parliament ought not to provide them—that Parliament was to tally incapable of legislating for the de tailed management of the affairs of that part of the world—and he said that if Parliament would content itself with laying down the great principle that every man should be free, and that the law should be applied, the local legislature could then safely be trusted with the task of legislation and of regulation—then it could execute the task which you were totally incapable of performing. They knew the circumstances of each individual colony—they could adapt measures to the peculiar circumstances of each—they could pass the laws—he said let them do this, and that they might be able to do it, let the period when emancipation took place be somewhat more remote than the noble Lord proposed. He said, that a year was not too much to give to any legislature; that if freedom was established, if the law was applied to all classes, the colonies might safely legislate for themselves. To any system of qualified labour, to any quantity of modified slavery, he said the local legislature ought not to be trusted; they would of necessity pass laws which would not be satisfactory to all. Then, he said, it would not be their fault, but it would be impossible for them to do otherwise. You could not make laws by which forced labour could be obtained otherwise than by harshness and severity. The noble Lord, when he first brought forward his scheme, was sensible of these objections, and stated that he meant Parliament to provide regulations to accompany apprenticeship; but when he came to undertake the task of drawing up the regulations—and if he referred to his own speech, he would see that what he (Earl Grey) said was strictly and literally borne out—the task of adopting precautions was omitted. It appeared to him, that in legislating, the great and permanent object was to subject the negro to some adequate motives for labour. He, for one, never attached the slightest importance to the theory of those who believed that in the negro race there was some special and peculiar indisposition to labour. He firmly believed that the negro race, on this subject, was very much like the white; and that they would be governed by the same motives by which white men, in similar circumstances, would be actuated; but when he considered what was the actual condition of slaves in Jamaica at the time of emancipation, it was clear to him that if emancipation took place without adequate precautions, there would be no stimulus whatever to the negro to work. What was that condition? The Jamaica slave received from his master supplies to the anual value of from 45s. to 50s., which was, in point of fact, very much the same as if he were obliged to work for 1s. a week, or something less, paid in kind. This, with a patch of ground for his subsistence, and a cabin, was all he cost his master. Now, it was perfectly obvious to him (Earl Grey) that the moment the negro became free, he could claim the value of his labour—he would be able to earn in less than one day in each week more than he before received for a week's labour from his master. That being so, why was he to work more than an hour a day? Was it rational to expect that, under those circumstances, he would consent, for any wages they could offer him, to give that amount of constant and continuous labour to his master which was absolutely necessary for the profitable cultivation of his estates. That was the argument which he (Earl Grey) used in 1833; and he contended that the truth of what he then advanced had been fully borne out by the result. The whole difficulty arose, in his belief, from the gratuitous use of land by the negro in Jamaica. The extent of land which had been granted, so infinitely exceeded the wants of the population, that it bore, in point of fact, no value in the market, and the negro could always obtain it for a mere nominal consideration. He would, therefore, still obtain the use of land as he did previous to emancipation; and he would in the same way continue to derive the greater part of his subsistence from the cultivation of his land, and would work for wages only so far as to enable him to purchase those articles of necessity which he could not raise for himself. The consequence was, as he had at the time anticipated, and as he declared over and over again, that in the absence of some legislation to raise the price of land, and to render it incumbent upon the negro to work for his master, that the production of sugar must be greatly diminished. He never asserted, as many had done, that the consequence of emancipation would be to cause bloodshed and anarchy in our colonies. The worst result which he had anticipated was the cessation of sugar cultivation. But did he think that that would be a light evil? Far from it. He always thought it of the greatest and most vital importance—far less to this country than to the slaves themselves—that the sugar cultivation should go on. He thought, unless the sugar cultivation were continued, that in the uncivilised and barbarous state in which the negro population then was, the very thing which would tend most to their improvement would be marred and destroyed; and he believed that it was necessary for the real welfare of the negro that he should be brought into a situation in which he should be compelled to do a reasonable amount of work in return for his subsistence. Upon that point he differed at the time from many excellent friends of his, who then took a very active part in the anti-slavery cause. They appeared to think that everything that was bad for the planter was good for the negro. He took a very different view of the matter. He believed that, rightly and truly understood, the interests of the planter and the labourer were identical, and that the interests of both required that slavery should be abolished, but that it should be so abolished that the negro should not be tempted to withdraw himself from the regular cultivation of the ground. At that time, then, another plan passed into a law, the plan of apprentice ship. A few years afterwards that system was abolished, but not by the authority of Parliament, for all that Parliament did was to pass laws restraining abuses which undoubtedly had existed under the system of apprenticeship. At the same time he must say, that he thought the West India colonies were cruelly and hardly treated in that matter of apprenticeship. The system was none of their seeking—they never demand ed or desired it—and he had no doubt if the Government at home had required immediate emancipation that the Assembly of Jamaica would have acquiesced in such a step. When that great change was about to take place, he, in his place in the House of Commons, again, but without avail, urged the necessity of some precaution are measure being adopted, founded on the disproportion between the amount of land and the population. In 1833, the planters were prepared to establish a new system, and to act upon the now state of things; whilst, on the other hand, the gratitude of the negroes for the change in their condition knew no bounds; and both parties entertained the best feeling towards each other. But in those five unhappy years, from 1833 to 1838, that state of things had greatly altered. The negroes had discovered that though they were told they were freemen, they were still, as the noble Lord admitted, in a state of modified slavery, and that they did not enjoy the advantages which they had anticipated. The planters, on the other hand, found that they had not reaped the benefits which some of them expected from the apprenticeship; and more than that, they knew that the apprenticeship system was to be but temporary in its duration, and the object of many of them was to make as much as they could during that period, in addition to the compensation, and then to retire from what they looked upon as a ruinous and falling speculation. The consequence was that the pastures were not properly kept up, that the live stock were not properly maintain ed, and that the necessary preparations for succeeding crops had not been made. But, more than that, the compensation had originally been given in a manner which prevented its coming in aid of the real necessities of the colony. It went almost entirely to pay off existing mortgages, and did not go to provide new machinery, or to the improvement of the system of cultivation and labour. The consequence was, that in 1838 the change to complete freedom took place under the most unfavourable circumstances which it was possible to imagine; but it also took place without any attempt whatever on the part of the Legislature to subject the negro to any species of moral restraint. He must say that such being the case, it was to him not a matter of astonishment that the consequences had been so disastrous as they had been; on the contrary, his surprise was that on the whole the system had worked so well as it actually had worked, and the more so because there were other circum stances which exposed the planter to considerable difficulties. Amongst these, without going at all into the detail of the subject, he might mention one—the sys tem of taxation adopted in almost all our colonies. He thought, if that were the proper time and place to go into that question, he could show their Lordships that the system of taxation was so contrived as to make it the interest of the negro to de vote his labour to his own provision ground, rather than to work for money wages for the planter. But there was another circumstance which perhaps their Lordships would be surprised to hear him enumerate amongst the causes of the planters' difficulties. Nevertheless, however paradoxical it might appear, he maintained that one great source of the planters' distress was the existence in that country of that system of protective duties upon their produce which they had cherished as of such vital importance to their welfare. He thought he could, he said, show their Lordships, by the plainest reasoning, that the existence of that system of protection had materially aggravated the difficulties of the planter. It had done so not only by teaching the planter to look more particularly to this country as the market for his produce, but in a far more direct manner that system had told to the disadvantage of the planter. He had already endeavoured to show that the great difficulty of the planter arose from the want of an adequate supply of labour, mainly to be attributed to the want of sufficient motive on the part of the negro to work for hire; and now he would show that the effect of protective duties had been directly to limit that amount of labour. This was the way in which protection operated. The negro, as he had shown, in the peculiar circumstances of those colonies, under-peopled as they were, and possessing so large an extent of fertile land, could always command the highest wages which the planter could possibly afford to pay. That being the case, it was obvious that the higher the price the planter could afford to pay, the smaller the amount of work which the negro need perform. The higher the price on which the planter could reckon for his sugar, the higher the price he could bid against his competitors for the labour of the negro; and the more that price was forced up, the fewer number of hours in the week it was necessary for the negro to work, in order to live as well as the negro thought it desirable to live. That was, he thought, clear upon the ordinary laws which governed supply and demand. But it so happened that upon this subject he was not left to mere inference of what was likely to result from protection, but he could show them by positive facts that the higher wages had been, the less had been the amount of labour done. A deputation upon this subject waited the other day upon his noble Friend at the head of the Treasury, at which he (Earl Grey) was present. One gentleman, Mr. Greene, made a statement upon that occasion as to the cost at which his produce had been obtained during a series of years in the island of St. Kitt's, with which he was very much struck. Indeed he thought the statement of so much importance that he requested the gentleman to furnish him with it in detail, and he had done so. In one part of the letter, referring to a previous statement, Mr. Greene said— The expenses for labour during the first four years amounted in the aggregate to 6,560l., in producing 15,965 cwts. of sugar; the labour in the last four years cost 8,663l. to produce 14,800 cwts. That was to say, whilst the labour cost upwards of 2,000l. more in the last four years than in the first, the amount of the produce fell off by upwards of 1,000 cwt. He would not trouble their Lordships with the details of this part of the subject; but he might remark that when apprenticeship was first abolished, the negro scarcely knew the value of his labour—he was content with very moderate wages, and for those moderate wages he did a fair amount of work. But the existence of protective duties made the planters compete with one another for labourers; wages consequently gradually rose, and as they did so the labourer became more and more independent of his master, and did a less and lees amount of work; and year by year did that become more apparent, as was shown by the statement furnished by Mr. Greene. He thought they would admit that that was a somewhat remarkable corroboration of the argument founded on the general reasoning which he had addressed to them. But he went further. He held in his hand an extract from a despatch, received only a few days ago, from Governor Higginson, the Governor General of Antigua. In this most able and admirable despatch, which he should take an early opportunity of laying before the House, and every line of which was well worthy the attention of Parliament, the Governor General said— It cannot, I conceive, be said that the resources of local or native labour have yet been fully developed, and therefore I entertain hopes that the present unprecedented pressure may, in this respect, be attended with beneficial effects. The wages of field work have, within the last three months, fallen from l0d. and 1s. to 6d. and 8d. sterling per day, and the price of task or job work has been proportionally diminished; in some cases the latter has been entirely discontinued, which seems injudicious, as tending to check instead of to foster habits of industry, and to hinder those who are willing to devote the whole of their time to working on estates, making the most of their labour. He then went on to say—and he (Earl Grey) begged their Lordships' most particular attention to this part of the despatch— Nor is it apprehended, that by this unavoidable measure the working classes will be subjected to any serious deprivations, for as there is reason to suppose that at the higher rates, by working three days in the week, they were enabled to sup port themselves and families in ease and comfort, it is anticipated that at the lower rates, by giving their labour more freely and continuously, they have accomplished the same object. He also held in his hand another despatch, relating to a totally different subject, dated the 1st of January, 1848, in which the writer, Governor Light, incidentally observed— The labourer of ordinary work in the field completes his task in four or five hours, hitherto paid at the rate of four, five, or six bits (equal to 1s. 4d., 1s. 8d., and 2s. 1d.). Supposing each ratio to be reduced a bit, the labourer, by adding another hour to his work, can still earn as much as before. He had also seen it stated in the local newspapers, that on the east coast of De- merara, where a contemplated reduction of twenty-five per cent in wages had taken place, it had been met cheerfully and in perfect good humour by the negroes, who would submit to the reduction of wages when they saw it was necessary, but who, when they saw the planters anxiously competing for their labour, would endeavour to get the last farthing they could obtain. The consequence of that reduction was, that at once, and without the expense of immigration, the colony obtained the ad vantage of an increase of one-fourth to its working population. If that were the case, would any man tell him that the system of protection was to the advantage of the planter? He (Earl Grey) held, on the contrary, that if protection were admissible on the grounds of the general interests of the country, it would be for the interest of the planter himself that we should adhere to the wise determination which Parliament came to in 1846. But there was another ground why protection should not be given to the West India colonist, and that was the burden which it imposed on the people of this country. Was it just, he asked, that the hard-worked and over-taxed people of this country should pay 3,000,000l. a year—for that was the smallest calculation of the amount of the tax which would be levied in this country by the renewal of protection—in order to keep up wages in Demerara to such a point that the labourer could earn 2s. 1d. by five hours' labour, instead of working six or seven, or possibly eight hours a day, in order to earn a like amount? He was sure the case only required to be stated in order to be admitted. The planter would gain by the abolition of protection, because the cost of protection would be reduced, the amount of his produce would be increased, and he would have the advantage of a more constant and a steadier market, free from those vicissitudes which prevailed under the protective system. For these reasons he could not concur with the noble Lord opposite in thinking that the measure of 1846 was to be charged with the extreme distress which at present existed in the West India colonies; nor could he think that Parliament ought now to retrace its steps. Indeed he found that in the opinion of many of the West Indian proprietors themselves it would be vain so to do. He had received a letter a few days ago, in which the writer stated that even if Parliament did retrace its steps it would be impossible to restore confidence in any system of protection. The state of public opinion, enlightened as he believed it now to have become upon the subject of protection, was such that it was beyond the power of any Parliament to create the slightest confidence in any system of protective duties. But it certainly was right and just that whatever Parliament could do should be done for the relief of the West Indies, and he would briefly advert to the measures of relief proposed by the Government which had been touched on by the noble Lord. In the first place, with regard to the immigration from Africa, he must say that the opinion of the noble Lord was almost precisely the same as his own. Following the views of the noble Lord, the Government had endeavoured, as much as possible, to send to the West Indies all the captured Africans taken on board the slavers; and he thought it was of great advantage that they should go there, for it had been found by experience that they rapidly amalgamated with the population there, that they greatly improved in civilisation, and that they were of great benefit to the colony; but, on the contrary, when they were left at Sierra Leone, the case was far different. It was impossible to contemplate the picture of Sierra Leone without the most melancholy reflections. Every attempt which had been made in that colony for the improvement of the negro had most lamentably failed, and he feared that they would still continue to fail. Its local disadvantages were so great, the want of a sufficient quantity of good land was so much felt, and its fatal, dreadful climate, were almost insuperable obstacles to any decided amendment. It was absolutely painful to hear of the constant vacancies which occurred in the civil establishment; and, numerous as the applicants were, he could not bear to send men to such a climate, where, just as men were beginning to know something of the colony, and were becoming able to do something for the improvement of the negro, they were probably swept off by that dreadful scourge which rendered the country so fatal to the white man. It was most lamentable to contemplate the mortality which existed especially among the missionaries, chaplains, and medical officers, who were so useful there. He thought, therefore, it was of the utmost importance that those captured Africans should be sent to the West Indies, where they would be of the greatest possible use, instead of remaining in a state of barbarism in Sierra Leone at great expense to this country. Hitherto the colonies had been willing and able to pay the expense of conveying those Africans to the West Indies; but looking at the actual state of distress existing in the colonies, he thought it fair to say that for the future that expense should be de frayed from the British Treasury instead of being borne by the colonial merchant. Beyond that, he had endeavoured to establish immigration from the coast of Africa; no immigrant, however, would be allowed to be sent to our colonies in the West Indies, except from our possessions on the coast of Africa, or from that part of the African coast where slavery was known not to prevail, viz., the Kroo coast. From the Kroo coast no emigrants were allowed to be shipped, unless a British officer was present to see that no abuse was practised; and, from the experience already derived, he was in great hopes that this emigration would be productive of much benefit to the West Indies. It was a great object to obtain a return passage to the coast of Africa to a certain number of these emigrants, after they had laboured in the colonies of the West Indies, because upon their return they invariably reported to their countrymen the high wages they received. Their emigration was thus encouraged; and it was likely to prove very successful, because upon a late voyage of Her Majesty's steam-sloop Growler she carried back from Demerara to the coast of Africa a number of these men, of whom the Governor reported that twenty-nine had accumulated no less than 571l. l5s. l0d. by their industry. This circumstance showed the high rate of wages in Demerara, and that the Kroomen, who had such an extraordinary affection for their native land that they never consented to leave it permanently, could accumulate sums of money to take back with them. He could not help believing that the return of Kroomen to their own country with so much money would have considerable effect in stimulating emigration of this character; most of them during their residence in the West Indies must necessarily pick up more or less of the English language, with ha bits of civilised life, so that their return to Africa was likely to be of no slight importance in advancing civilisation and knowledge in those vast regions. So much having been accomplished in this respect, he had to state that Her Majesty's steamers would no longer be employed on this service, because it had been found possible to make arrangements by which merchant ships bound to the West Indies would, for a very moderate charge, take the coast of Africa in their way for the purpose of carrying emigrants to those colonies. In al most all the colonies there existed colonial laws, under which bounties were granted to those who brought in emigrant labour, which were amply sufficient to remunerate shipowners who succeeded in obtaining an adequate number of passengers; but vessels were unwilling to take the coast of Africa upon their way on the mere chance of securing passengers. Her Majesty's Government had therefore made an arrangement whereby the shipowners would be remunerated for this service, not by the colonies, but by this country. Eight ships had already sailed upon this service, two of which were for Jamaica, two for British Guiana, and two for Trinidad. It had been urged by some parties that entire and unrestricted emigration ought to be allowed from the coast of Africa. He need not remind their Lordships, after the statements he had made, that emigration to the British colonies in the West Indies was entirely unrestricted. Any emigrant, from any part of Africa, who might find his way there, would be received. All that the Government said was, that neither the public money nor British ships should be employed in carrying negroes to the West Indies, who, there was reason to suppose, had been purchased for that purpose. There were some Gentlemen, for whom he entertained the greatest respect, who strongly urged the removal of every restriction. Why not, they said, go to the coast of Africa, and at once buy the slaves there, take them to the West Indies, and make them free? It would improve their condition and benefit the colonies, according these Gentlemen. No doubt the colonies would be benefited by the accession of so much labour, whilst the individuals so removed would find their condition ameliorated; but there was this fatal and in surmountable objection to the plan, that it could not possibly be adopted without stimulating all the horrors of an internal slave trade in Africa itself. Create a new demand of this kind for slaves upon the coast of Africa, that demand would be sup plied by internal wars, by fraud, cruelty, and treachery of every description, which would be extended into the furthest recesses of that great continent. He was convinced that no British Minister and no British Parliament would for a moment listen to such a proposal. This was his answer to those who complained that Her Majesty's Government refused unrestricted emigration to the West Indian colonies; the only restriction remaining in force was that to which it would be contrary to their most sacred duty to accede. There was one measure which, applying only to two colonies, required some explanation. It was proposed that an advance, not exceeding 200,000l., should be granted by way of loan, under the sanction of Parliament, to the two colonies of Guiana and Trinidad for the purpose of enabling them to en courage emigration. In 1844 the noble Lord (Lord Stanley) sanctioned the adoption, by those colonies, of plans for raising money by loan for the purpose of emigration. That principle, he believed, had been of some service; but, looking at the cost of Coolie emigration—the temporary nature of the advantages derived from it, inasmuch as it was part of the contract with the Coolies that they should have a free passage back—it was clear that, however well Coolie emigration might have answered for the Mauritius, it was not so well adapted for these colonies. This being the case, he did not think it wise or prudent to charge the whole expense of it upon the permanent resources of the colonies, be cause the benefit would be gone at the end of five years, whilst the charge would re main. The Government might, perhaps, lament that the noble Lord had been induced to sanction such an arrangement; it had, however, been sanctioned, and during the last three years a very considerable number of emigrants had been introduced into those colonies at their expense. Her Majesty's Government conceived that, under these circumstances, they were justified in recommending Parliament that a loan to the extent he had named should be granted; and the more so, because if they did not, it would be absolutely necessary to arrest at once the experiment of emigration from Africa, which was just commencing with favourable prospects of success. It was also proposed to recommend to Parliament that certain loans which had been advanced some years ago to several colonies which had suffered by hurricanes, earthquakes, and other disasters, which loans were now in course of repayment by instalments, should have the time for re payment postponed. The loans to Barbadoes, St. Lucie, and Tobago, originally amounted to 948,150l. In 1840 an Act was passed to grant some delay in the period of repayment; and it was now pro- posed to extend that period for five years more. The amount now due was 657,000l. In 1843 a further loan to the extent of 135,000l. was granted to Antigua, Montserrat, and Nevis; and it was intended to allow a similar indulgence of five years' postponement of the repayment. He trusted that, under the circumstances, Parliament would find no difficulty in passing the measures proposed by Her Majesty's Government for the relief of the West India interest. Among those measures was an extensive alteration in the navigation laws; but as that question would come regularly before the House before the end of the Session, he would not enter into the differences of opinion on this subject which appeared to exist between the noble Lord and himself. He was glad, however, to hear the admission of the noble Lord, that if the protective system was not restored to the colonies, it would be absolutely necessary to grant this relief. The next measure of relief to the West India interest was the admission of molasses into distilleries. On this subject the noble Lord (Lord Stanley), had been very severe, exclaiming "what a vacillating and uncertain course you are pursuing—how is it possible trade can flourish when you do one thing this year, and undo it next? Last year," continued the noble Lord, "you refused to admit molasses in your distilleries, but this year you are disturbing that arrangement." If the facts were as the noble Lord had stated, he (Earl Grey) admitted the Government would deserve the censure passed upon them; but they were very different, as the noble Lord would have found if he had been at the trouble of consulting Hansard. The real case was this. Last year his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer provided for allowing sugar to be introduced into breweries and distilleries. He stated at the same time there were difficulties with regard to molasses; but the Excise were engaged in inquiries, the result of which he trusted and believed would be that molasses might be admitted; and if their admission was found, practicable, he pledged himself to propose it in the present Session. The inquiries referred to had been prosecuted; and the Excise, by whom they were made, had reported there were means, not liable to the dangers of abuse or fraud upon the revenue, by which molasses could be admitted into distilleries. Molasses were accordingly to be admitted into distilleries; but the means had not yet been found of admitting the same article into breweries. If it were possible, he wished them to be admitted. With regard to rum, the facts were the same. From the first, Her Majesty's Government had declared that the principle which they thought Parliament should adopt, was to place the West Indian and the English distiller upon the same footing; but it was a question of calculation. The English distillers claimed a protective duty of a considerable amount upon their rum, in consequence of certain disadvantages to which they were exposed. The Government thought 6d. per gallon was sufficient. When the subject, however, was discussed in Parliament, there was a manifestation of opinion so strong that the differential duty was raised to 9d. In doing so, however, his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer stated the calculation was not entirely satisfactory to his own mind, and it would again require the attention of Parliament. He believed that all parties were now agreed that the burden should be alike upon all. Such were the measures Her Majesty's Government intended to propose to Parliament with the view of relieving the West India colonies. The noble Lord had told them they were utterly and entirely deceived, and that if they were not prepared to return to the old protective system, it would be true mercy to let ruin fall immediately upon the colonies. He (Earl Grey) should be wanting in candour if he were to pre tend that any measure which Parliament could by possibility adopt would have any very great or material effect in putting an end to the distress which unhappily prevailed in the colonies; but he would re mind the House, that during the time the West Indies were in the enjoyment of protection, it stood recorded that their com plaints of distress were most grievous. And what did the noble Lord do, under these circumstances, when he held a responsible office? Why, as far as he was aware, the only thing proposed by his Administration was a breaking in upon the principle of protection. By their Act of 1844 they broke in, most completely and successfully, upon the principle of protection against slave grown sugar. He was really almost surprised the noble Lord could keep his countenance when he told their Lordships that the measure of 1844 did not practically expose the colonies to competition with slave-grown sugar; that it merely defined a distinction between slave-grown and free-grown. What, however, had been stated by the principal author of the Bill of 1844 as to its practical working? His (Earl Grey's) argument had always been, that it was an absurdity to maintain that a distinction of this kind could be kept up. A certain quantity of sugar came into the market, partly grown by free and partly by slave labour. From that general supply you took the portion which was free labour, and you supposed you did not thereby affect the demand for the other. It was real childishness to suppose the remainder would not be affected; and it reminded him of the Irish servant, who thought that by drawing the wine out of the bottom of the cask, his master would not perceive the loss from the top. This subject was made clear by the author of the Bill in his place in Parliament in January, 1846, long before the present Sugar Bill was thought of. The amount of free-labour sugar brought into competition with British colonial sugar, has not at all equalled my expectations. I calculated the amount of free-labour sugar, if I recollect rightly, at 250,000 tons; but the amount actually brought in for home consumption has fallen far short of that. I believe the defalcation may be accounted for chiefly by the failure of the crop Where? In Java? In any colony producing free-labour sugar? No, but —"by the failure of the crop in Cuba, and by the consequent increased price of sugar on the continent of Europe, and the diversion thither of supplies which would have been brought to this country from other parts of the world in which there is free labour." ^* He must say he thought this statement from the lips of Sir Robert Peel most effectually ended the delusion of supposing that this distinction could be maintained. If you were to let in any sugar besides that grown in your own colonies, it was idle to attempt to distinguish between sugar the produce of slave, and sugar the produce of free labour. He was well aware it did not lay in Governments or Parliaments to make any branch of industry prosperous. If they flourished, and became prosperous, it must be by their own inherent vigour, and by the energy and enterprise of individuals. When Governments and Parliaments interfered, they might easily do mischief—they could not do good. If that was a justification of the noble Lord, it was also a justification to him (Earl Grey); but he thought they were bad friends to the West Indies who told them their cause was hopeless: that there was nothing for them to do but ^* Hansard (Third Series) Vol. lxxxiii. p. 253. to fold their hands in despair and give up the contest; that slave labour was necessarily and essentially cheaper than free labour. He denied the truth of that allegation upon the highest authority that could be quoted. There was no distinguished writer or philosopher, of ancient or modern times, who had not stated that slave labour, in spite of its apparent cheapness, was really less efficient and more costly than free labour. In the last century Hume the historian, and Dr. Franklin, held the same position; and he felt the utmost surprise at hearing the contrary doctrine from those who had formerly been active in the work of emancipation. What was the great argument of the Anti-Slavery Society? Why, that free labour was cheaper than slave labour. This was the substance of their speeches and pamphlets, and it was supported by elaborate proofs of its truth. Nothing had yet happened to shake his conviction in this great truth. He firmly believed that a wise and gracious Providence had so constituted human nature, that that which was not morally right was never really profitable. He appealed, however, to experience, and he found that wherever free and slave labour had been exposed to com petition on equal terms, free labour had invariably gained the victory. How was it in the United States? Could the slave States of the Union compete in any one article with the free States, which their climate and soil enabled them to cultivate? He referred to the cultivation of Indian corn as an example. What had been the case with indigo? At the beginning of the present century our supplies of indigo were derived from the West Indies, but we obtained them now from the East Indies. The fact was, the free labour of the East occupied in producing indigo had entirely destroyed its production in the West, where it was cultivated by slaves. He believed, indeed, that if 150 years ago free labour sugar had been admitted upon the same terms as the slave-labour sugar of the West Indies—in other words, if we had not protected slavery against freedom—his conviction was, that the Bill of 1833 would have been unnecessary, and that competition with the free labour of the East Indies would have abolished slavery in the West Indies. Let the noble Lord point to one single instance, where the battle had been fairly fought, of free labour having been defeated. If the noble Lord had it in his power to do this, he would yield to him. But he would go further, and show that the difference was in favour of free labour in the colonies themselves, upon a comparison with slave labour of the negroes immediately prior to emancipation. The only means of comparing them was by taking piecework in both cases. Day-labour would prove nothing, because though the individual slave cost little, there were such large deductions to be made for sickness, want of skill, and unwillingness to work, and other matters, that no proper comparison could be made from a mere day's work. It was worth a great deal, however, to compare the prices paid to contractors for work done. In Jamaica it was the practice, when the labour upon an estate was in arrear, to contract with the owners of jobbing gangs to perform that labour; and it was known that the jobbing gangs were the hardest worked of any slaves in the colony. Of course there was a good deal of competition, and the planters always got their work done at the lowest rate they could. Previous to emancipation the prices for these jobbing gangs were from 4l. 10s. to 5l. 8s.; now, however, the same labour could be contracted for at from 2l. 14s. to 3l. 2s. But he might be told to quote nothing but what was official. Well, then, within the last two days papers had been delivered to their Lordships, which were in continuation of the annual reports first required by the noble Lord (Lord Stanley) from the colonies for presentation to Parliament. By the establishment of this practice, the noble Lord had conferred great service upon Parliament and the country. Now, in a despatch of April 2, 1847, their Lordships would find the following statement from the Governor of Tobago, Major Græme. He said— It is an error to suppose that in Tobago we give a high rate of wages. The price of field labour varies from 6d. to 1s. per diem, according to age, for attached negroes, that is, for such as have houses and grounds; but 1s. 4d. is demanded on Saturdays, which is still, I regret to observe, considered as a day of exclusive freedom, and of exemption from the estate's employ. This alluded to a very bad system which existed in those colonies of mixing up rent and wages. He believed there were few things which had created more dissatisfaction between parties than the mixing up of two things which ought to be kept so entirely separated. He then went on:— It may not here be out of place to give a striking instance of the economy, laying other considerations aside, of free over compulsory labour. The charge in slavery for preparing and opening an acre of land in this island, by the employment of a task gang, was 8l. sterling. The same amount of work was performed very recently for 1l. 19s. 10d., upon a Saturday, too, when the people, as stated above, demand the higher rate of wages. The gang consisted of twenty-six men and women, with four water-carriers; each person opened 100 four-feet cane holes, which very nearly cover the surface of an acre of ground. Now, those who objected to the authority of pamphlets would, he hoped, admit that he was not without official authority to sup port him in saying that free labour was cheaper than slave labour. But he did not despair of the success of these colonies. He was bound to say that he did not believe it was within the power of Parliament, or of any measures that their Lord ships could possibly adopt, to enable the West India colonies to flourish under the system that had hitherto been adopted with regard to them. For a proprietor in this country to believe that he could by means of agents cultivate land and carry on a manufacture at a profit was, he was satisfied, an entire mistake. He would ask, could the same thing be practicable in this country? He would ask the noble Lord, did he believe that if the very large estates of his family were taken entirely into his own hands, cultivated on his own account, by his own labourers, paid by himself, could he, even with the advantage of being on the spot and of residing on the estate, hope to succeed in making such a system of management work profitably? Their Lordships would, he was sure, agree with him that the case became still more impracticable when the entire management was en trusted to an agent. An agent had not that freedom of action, and he might add sentiment, with regard to his own interest, which was absolutely necessary for the proper cultivation of the soil. Profit depended in Jamaica, as it did in England, on a careful attention to economy of details, combined with a judicious and spirited employment of capital in improvement. This union was absolutely necessary, in order to enable the Jamaica proprietor to compete successfully with the proprietor in Cuba or the Brazils. But so far from believing that the existence of slavery in Cuba and Brazil gave a facility to those countries to compete with Jamaica, he believed precisely the reverse. He believed that but for emancipation the contest between Jamaica and Cuba would have been infinitely more severely felt in the former island than it had been. And they should remember that the business of a planter was not merely that of an agriculturist, but that he was a manufacturer also, and that, too, a manufacture of the nicest kind, requiring the application of the highest principles of chemistry, and operations of the greatest care. Let them look at what was accomplished in Franco in regard to the manufacture of beet-root sugar. The imposition of equal duties on the beet root sugar with those imposed on the colonial produce, it was supposed would entirely annihilate the former; and yet the very re verse had been the result. The manufacture was one of the nicest kind, requiring all the skill of the farmer and of the manufacturer; and to suppose that it could be carried on across the Atlantic by a proprietor residing in this country and ignorant himself necessarily, in the majority of instances, of the details which his agent con ducts, was in his mind the greatest delusion. But a very great change was going on in the West Indies at the present moment. Among many documents which had passed through his hands connected with the state of these colonies, he was very much struck with one which he had received the other clay from a number of planters in the western part of Jamaica, and who stated that they had invested capital to the extent of not less than 142,000l. in plantations in the colony; and they added, what was a most remarkable fact, that with one exception they had all purchased or leased their plantations since emancipation. That showed what a change of system was in progress in that island; and he believed that in the course of a few years more they would see the soil of Jamaica cultivated by planters carrying on business for them selves, and forming resident owners or les sees of the land. So far from believing that the prospects of Jamaica were bad, he was not aware of any part of the British dominions in which there was so favourable a prospect for the investment of capital at this moment as Jamaica. He believed that a man of intelligence and of scientific knowledge, who was not ready to despise local experience, and who was willing to avail himself of all the aid which he could get from any parties in the colony, but, above all, combining the great principles of science, on which cultivation of every kind mainly depends for success, and adopting those plans which they knew had in some foreign colonies been adopted with so much success, of irrigation and draining—and he was told that the former, namely, irrigation, was the great secret of the success of the sugar cultivation in other colonies, though it was a new application in Jamaica—he believed that such a man would have a greater prospect of realising a fortune in Jamaica, than in any other field of investment. He believed that if five or six men were mutually to assist and support each other, and to establish that great improvement which he believed would, by degrees, be generally acted upon in the colony, of having a central manufactory for sugar, he felt persuaded that such a party of men could not fail, with prudence and industry, to succeed. He was convinced that the measures which had been already adopted had stimulated the colonists, and would lead to the general adoption of the wise course which he had alluded to; and he was persuaded that in this manner they would see in a very few years a great change in the condition of the West India colonies. He took a deep interest in the welfare of these colonies; and his strong conviction was that days of great prosperity were in store for them. On the grounds on which he founded these anticipations, he would not detain their Lordships; but he would now conclude merely by again saying that he confidently appealed to the judgment of their Lordships and of the country, whether he had fairly proved that the distress of the West India colonies had not arisen from any measures that had been adopted by the discretion of Parliament, or from any advice given by Her Majesty's present Government.

LORD STANLEY

begged leave to trespass for a moment on their Lordships, on a point on which the noble Lord had charged him with having misrepresented the views of the Government. He had alluded to a statement made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the course of last Session; and he now begged to read the words used by the right hon. Gentle man on the occasion. The noble Lord here read several passages from the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Committee on the resolution for the use of sugar in breweries and distilleries in the last Session of Parliament, referring to the motives which had induced Her Majesty's Government not to include molasses in the Bill about being then introduced. He then continued: He found there a positive declaration that it was not the intention of the Government to allow molasses to be introduced in distilleries, and he made his statement on that declaration.

EARL GREY

said, that what the noble Lord read was perfectly consistent with his statement, as it appeared from the speech of his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that molasses were not to be admitted, merely because they did not know how to guard against fraud to the revenue.

The BISHOP of OXFORD

said: I hold in my hand a petition, the prayer of which is nearly the same as that of others which have been laid on your Lordships' table. It is a petition from the Council and Assembly of the island of Barbadoes, complaining of the same disasters, and pointing to the same cure as the others I have referred to. Important as I have felt this petition to be, on account of the source whence it comes, I should have begged the parties who committed it to me, to commit it rather to some other person, if I felt that this question could properly be considered a mere fiscal question. I should be glad to leave a subject of that nature to be discussed by the lay Lords I see around me. But I think this question is drawn up into a much higher region, and must be judged on higher principles than a mere fiscal question. This is at once my excuse for addressing your Lordships on the subject, and the reason why, not viewing with the same dread as others do the principle of abolishing protection generally, I think, in this instance, protection ought not to be abolished; for I believe that there are circumstances in which the warmest advocates of free trade would at once allow that the principle ought not to be applied. The man would be thought insane who should claim a liberty to introduce infected bales of goods to spread death and desolation around, on the principle that free trade required that no restrictions should be imposed on establishing an open market; and he would be thought almost equally mad who should deny the legality of a national blockade for the same reason, or who should say that a nation ought to allow its subjects to give pirates firearms in exchange for food, because firearms were dear, and nowhere else could goods be got as cheaply. Any man would be held insane who would speak of this as a free-trade argument. In my judgment, this case comes under the same law. I think the denial of what is called protection to the West Indies, but which I believe in very deed is the assertion of the righteous determination of England to have nothing to do with the slave trade, is an invasion of justice both to the planter and to the negro. This petition points out that the inhabitants of the West Indian islands entered on a vast social experiment at the peril of all their earthly goods, on the faith of a hearty co-operation of the mother country with them. Having entered on that great and, to them, fearful experiment, they complain that you, at the first moment you seem to be pinched your selves by anything like a sacrifice, turn round, leaving them to bear all the loss, and saying, "Let us have all the credit." This is altogether unjust in a great nation. What has been the argument of the noble Earl? This—that the depreciation of the produce of the West Indies is the result not of the competition of slave produce of Cuba and Brazil, but the general depreciation of all mercantile affairs. But the noble Lord did not answer—I do not know why, unless because it was unanswerable—the argument of the noble Lord (Lord Stanley), when he asked the pithy question, why was it, if the general depreciation of mercantile affairs sank the price of West Indian sugar, that the price of Cuban and Brazilian sugar had risen during the same time? That argument is, I think, unanswerable. The produce of Cuba is just as much exposed to the general depreciating causes which the noble Lord says have operated against West Indian produce; but the fact is, the sugar of the West Indies is now, for the first time, brought into ruinous competition with sugar that can be produced more cheaply. What was the only other argument used by the noble Earl? He told us, that just as the protective duties sank, the price of labour sank also, and that therefore the West Indian proprietors, no longer obliged to give extortionate wages, would be able to produce sugar with gain to themselves; while the negro would still have abundant remuneration for his support, even after the reduction. What did the argument go to? Nothing more than this—that it is necessary the West Indian proprietor should never know anything like prosperity; that he should always be kept on the verge of ruin in order to keep him from paying higher wages than were paid elsewhere, and to compel the black labourers to work as they ought. But one thing the noble Lord has overlooked. We do not deny the difficulty the planters have to contend with in dealing with men who are every year more aware of their value in the labour market, who can provide for all their wants by a few hours' labour, and who are every year able to drive a harder bargain with masters who must employ them, having no other supply of labour, in consequence of the abolition, of slavery and the operation of a new social system, in which they relied on your assistance to carry them through. A prompt command of labour is an absolute necessity in the tropics. Every one knows the importance of a full command of agricultural labour at certain times of the year in England; among the vegetation of the tropics that necessity is increased tenfold; in that climate, where the weeds increase with every shower, the planter must give the price necessary to keep them down, if he would secure any return at all, and thus he is obliged to give almost any rate of wages for labour at these particular sea sons. Thus it is that, after all, the ad mission of slave labour in competing countries makes the difficulty of the West India proprietor. We are told that if men of capital, prudence, and skill, will only go to the West Indies, they could cultivate the land with advantage. We have heard this so often that one begins to hear it with something of suspicion. There are no better judges of where money can be laid out well than those who govern the money market of England; no one will deny that there are masses of money in this country only waiting for any investment that will give a moderate return: if this is the case, and if these good judges, these sagacious men, say it is impossible to lay out money advantageously in the West Indies, I think that it is a practical answer to the some what theoretic suggestion on which the noble Earl's speech was based. No answer has been given to the argument that it was an injustice to deprive the West Indian planters of the support they had been led to expect. The Minister of the Crown, in his place in Parliament, said, so it was to be; and Parliament assented to every assurance that they should be protected. This last part of the argument I might carry further even than the noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley). In my judgment a still greater security was given in the pledge furnished by the religion and morals of England, that it would have nothing more to do with the slave trade. That pledge was not a mere question of how far you were bound by acts and treaties; it was a pledge found ed on the labours and sacrifices of all the great men of successive ages—the cautious preparation of Pitt, the zealous exertions of Fox, the labours of those who devoted their whole lives, not to building themselves a great name or vast fortune, but to wiping away a stain from England—to giving a pledge that she as a nation would never more have anything to do with the ac cursed slave trade. This is a bond stronger than a parchment deed, an engagement more binding than the promise of any Minister. I say you are now sinning against these great men—against these solemn pledges; let the argument be drawn out as finely as you will, you are, in plain English, sharing a future profit with the slave owning and slave trading planters of Cuba. The noble Earl tells us it is in vain to exclude slave-grown sugar from the markets of this country—that we shall but drive it to the Continent; and it comes to the same thing whether the 150,000 tons of slave grown sugar are sold there or in England. All the same, my Lords? Is it the same thing whether I buy stolen goods, or know that another man does it? Is it the same thing whether I keep my hands clean of such an enormity, or commit it because if I do not another man will? Surely this is an argument we ought not, as a nation, to tolerate; it does not agree with that high tone which broke out in many parts of the noble Earl's speech. It seems to me an argument the people of this country will not endure to have urged upon them: they will answer it by saying, even if the evil be done, we must not be the doers of it. Let us remember what the noble Lord stated at the close of his speech; and it may be a prophetic truth, that if we first ruin the sugar growth of our own West Indian islands, we shall give over to the planters of Cuba and Brazil, not only the supply of our own market, but of all the markets of the world. It is a peculiar at tribute of slave-produced sugar that it is easily cheapened suddenly, and for a time, by an increase in the importation of slaves. The planter has only to give an order to the slave dealer on the African coast; a large number of full-grown negroes are imported; a great quantity of virgin soil is broken up; the market is filled with slave sugar to the ruin of the competitor, according to a well-known plan of trade. Men say they are prepared to undersell a rival for a few months, drive him out of the market, then raise their prices and pay themselves abundantly. This is what we shall do by putting it in the power of the importer of slaves to ruin our own slower and safer production. Remember another point bearing closely on this subject. The noble Earl has told us it was an old abolition argument, that free is cheaper than slave labour, and that it was altogether inconsistent in us to urge for an instant the supposition that the West Indies could not compete with Cuba be cause it is supplied with slave labour. This is entirely a mis-statement, though an un intentional mis-statement, on the part of the noble Earl. It was not an abolition argument that free is cheaper than slave labour, but an emancipation argument. It was always admitted that it was cheaper to import slaves full grown, without the expense of their youth or age, and work them to death in the sugar plantations, supplying their place with others. The argument was first used by Mr. Cropper, of Liverpool; he said, as the slave trade was abolished, it would be cheaper to prepare the slaves for freedom by working them as a black peasantry. I believe free labour is cheaper than slave labour. I believe that Providence has so ordered things that what is wrong cannot be really profitable. But what is the measure of profit? Is it the greatest amount of money got in the shortest given time by the least given quantity of labour? If that is the true value of profit, we ought not to hold up as crimes the acts of the pirate and robber who by piracy and robbery makes himself suddenly rich. But in the long-run God sets his hand against wrong-doing; not by such a suspension of ordinary laws as would make six hours of a freeman produce as much as eighteen of the tasked slave, but by filling the heart with such terrors as those felt by the rich Cuba planter, who trembles, knowing that his wealth of to-day may be lost in an out break of his slaves tomorrow, by breaking down all the fabric of morality, peace, and happiness, which alone makes life dear, and wealth worth having. These are the ways in which God testifies at last against the infraction of such laws as this. The question returns simply to this—Shall we, as the English nation, after so many sacrifices to abolish the slave trade, for the sake of one penny in the price of a pound of sugar content ourselves to share the profit of the Cuba planter? Let the House and the country remember, that great as were the abominations of the slave trade, they are now still greater. If the blockade does nothing else, at least it does this, it aggravates a thousand-fold the sufferings of these wretched victims of man's cupidity. You have attempted with your war-vessels to close the ports of Africa, and in thus rendering exportation more dangerous and hazardous, you have made it the interest of the exporter to cram his victims still closer than before in those ships which are now constructed with the one regard to speed; and in this way you but increase the agonies and add to the deaths of those whom you strive to save and preserve. And when they reach Cuba, how, again, do they fare? I am ready to admit that there is no code of slave-laws in the known world which contains, on paper and parchment, so many securities for the life and protection of the slave as the code of Cuba; but in such a state of society as is there presented, that code is a dead letter, and an unobserved document merely. There is no safety, no law, for the slave; and I believe there never was a country where the sufferings and endurance of the slave were greater than they are at this moment in Cuba and in the Brazils. Every horrible feature which has been marked in the history of the enormities of the field-slave system in the olden time is found to be exaggerated fourfold in the unhappy lands of which I speak. Things which were never known, never heard of, in the worst days of slavery in our own West Indian colonies, are there taking place unconcealed in the face of day. The professed importation of the one sex alone, the evident intention to work them, and not to reproduce them, the in variable use of the lash to compel to labour, and the presence of bloodhounds in the plantation by the side of the miserable driver—these things are evidences of the horrors of the system. As one of these drivers said, when the question was put to them, "Do you think I could trust my life in the field if I had nothing more than this lash to defend myself? I must have these brute animals for guardians, and I must have these weapons in my belt, and by these only could I compel the code under which my victims are to live." And this, observe, my Lords, is the system which, as I contend, you are called upon to sup port and perpetuate. Most truly do I, in my conscience, believe that if these truths, in all their revolting aspect, were made manifest—if the English people would but recognise these facts, and see that it is not a question of protection, one way or the other, but whether or not they shall have sugar cheaper by the sufferings of these slaves of Cuba, the settlement of this discussion would be certain and immediate. Let the principle be comprehended, and the mind of the people will insist upon mo- rality and honour; they will dash at once from their lips the chalice you offer to them, tinged as it is with the blood of fellow-creatures sacrificed to economy. I am convinced that the people have been misled, and that they are ignorant of the inevitable truth that if they violate their most sacred duties and the holiest feelings, and become abettors in the guilt of others, they will be condemned, in sonic way or other, to be partakers in the punishment; for, as the noble Lord has eloquently re marked, it is impossible that any nation can continue long to set at defiance the plainest laws of God, without some, corresponding suffering accruing to the sinners. You cannot share the Cuba profit without incurring your share of the Cuba guilt; and you cannot incur the Cuba guilt without having recorded against you the Cuba chastisement. Let, then, this question, in all its forcible simplicity, be stated in England, and I doubt not of the result. It may be a little sooner or a little later; but I hope, as ruin to the West Indians is impending, and we may shortly be called upon to abandon ourselves to new treaties with other States, the present moment will be made available to our purpose. Our colonists confessedly tremble on the verge of destruction—let us not forget the proof which the history of the world furnishes, that, the moment lost, we cannot recall the prosperity we might have preserved. This remark will apply especially to the condition of society in the West Indies; and it may be that if the ruin which threatens arrives, no efforts we may wake, and no exercise of our power, will be able to re store the position we ought to have maintained. I have ventured to press this matter upon your Lordships once again, because I feel that it is a question of the deepest national morality, as well as of the deepest national prosperity. I have endeavoured to state the argument fairly; and I cannot believe, if the subject be but viewed in a clear light, that after all our anti-slavery labours we will now consent thus palpably to frustrate our own designs, and contradict our own principles. I, for one at least, do declare, if we barefacedly admit this produce of slave labour, on the single ground that sugar will be 1d. per pound dearer if we do not admit it—that is, in point of fact, to make our abolition struggle a deep and indelible disgrace to this country; to convert our cordon of ships on the coast of Africa into a glaring piece of hypocrisy; and to render our treaties with neighbouring States an insulting and degrading mockery.

LORD ASHBURTON

then rose, but the noble Lord was nearly inaudible. He was understood to express an opinion favourable to the experiment on a large scale of immigration of free labour. In the mean time, however, in the depressed condition of colonial enterprise, much further loss would accrue (pending such an experiment) if the Government did not resort to other modes of relief. If it was admitted to be a national necessity that slave-labour sugar should not be altogether excluded from our markets, then, as we exposed our colonists at such odds to such competition, we were, as it appeared to him, in justice bound to assist them through the transition stage in which they were now passing. He anticipated some benefit from the loans which the Government proposed to tender to the West Indians; but as to the demand which was made for the abolition of the navigation laws, he thought the discussion on that point might with propriety he postponed. The noble Lord laid several petitions on the table, one from the standing committee of the merchants and planters connected with the West Indies resident in the city of London; and another from the planters and other inhabitants of Mauritius, the concurring prayer of which was for the application of some immediate remedy or remedies to the position in which the petitioners had been placed by recent legislation.

The petitions laid on the table.

House adjourned.