Lords Sitting of 11 June 1847

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—la Naturalization of Aliens; Bankruptcy and Insolvency (No. 3); Masters in Chancery Affidavit Office.
2a Naval Mutiny.
3a and passed:—Lunatie Asylums (Ireland); Turnpike Roads (Ireland).
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By the Marquess of Normanby, from Warwick and other places, for the Enactment of Sanitary Regulations.—From Clergy within the Rural Deanery of Westham, Sussex, against the Clergy Offences Bill.

EDUCATION.
The BISHOP of EXETERrose, pursuant to notice, to move—
"That it is the opinion of this House that persons in holy orders not exercising ecclesiastical functions ought not as such to be ineligible to the office of schoolmasters in schools receiving aid from Parliamentary grants."
The right rev. Prelate said he could assure their Lordships that the principle involved in this proposition was of great importance. It was one which could not he estimated as it appeared in the paper, and a more complicated question and one of a larger interest it would he impossible to find; it was whether the House would join with the Government in inflicting upon a meritorious and ill-rewarded class of public functionaries a lasting degradation. The danger which the Government had to apprehend in respect of schoolmasters in schools receiving Government aid was, that if they were capable of giving the scholars valuable instruction, and in fact of being the teachers of much higher classes, then they were likely to resign their situations if they had nothing to hope for but the small pecuniary pittance held out to them by their schools. The Principal of St. Mark's College, Chelsea, and others well acquainted with the feelings of the most competent masters in the National schools, assured him that there was no boon so great, no reward of which they were so ambitious, as to be admitted into the Church; being schoolmasters, they looked forward to the time when they might be ordained as clergymen. In a publication put forth with the sanction of the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Lansdowne), and entitled The School in its Relations to the State, avowedly the work of Dr. Kay Shuttleworth, he found the admission

367
that religious motives could alone induce many of the more highly qualified teachers to sacrifice personal advantages, and continue their scantily paid labours. The writer showed that, unless greater inducements were held out to the training masters, they would be attracted by the greater ease and comfort of commercial situations, and said every means should therefore be adopted to render the office more honourable. These training-masters and teachers knew for themselves as well as the Committee of Council, what they desired, and what were the circumstances which would retain them in their profession. The Minutes held out the prospect of a pension after 15 years' service, provided the master were debilitated and unfit for further service. But a far higher reward might be held out to those persons, and had been so held out by himself. He (the Bishop of Exeter) had offered to ordain these training-masters if they were fit for deacons, and he did so because they were schoolmasters, and were determined to go on as schoolmasters, even though they were in holy orders. He was now about to move that persons in holy orders ought not, as such, to be ineligible to teach in the schools receiving aid from Parliamentary grants. One of the inspectors of the Committee of Privy Council on Education, in his report on St. Mark's College, spoke in very high terms of the acquirements of the training-masters at that institution, and of their high qualifications in an intellectual, moral, and religious point of view. He (the Bishop of Exeter) had also seen these young men, and had read what they had written, and he was satisfied that their attainments were such as would confer high credit upon many of those who came from the Universities and passed under the examination of their chaplains for the Church. Great temptations would be held out to draw these young men to railways and other commercial employments; but if they could look to the possibility of their being ordained, they would thus be induced to remain in the profession. In that very College of St. Mark's, which was now receiving l,000 l. a year from the Parliamentary grant, the master of the ordinary school in which the training-masters were exercised in the practical business of teaching was a clergyman, who had been ordained by the Bishop of London two years ago in consequence of his high qualifications. He would maintain that it was the duty of the noble Marquess to have
368
placed upon the Minutes of the Committee of Privy Council that exclusion which he had now thought fit for the first time to announce. That Committee had resolved, on the 25th of August last, "that the Lord President should cause a resolution to be framed defining the duties of schoolmasters." He should have expected to find in that resolution, so framed by the Lord President, a declaration that no clergyman should exercise the functions of a schoolmaster. But no such statement was contained therein; and yet the noble Marquess now said, that to allow a person in holy orders to fill the office of schoolmaster in schools receiving aid from the State, would be inconsistent with the whole plan of the Government. He hoped the noble Marquess would say whether the matter to be taught in these schools was matter which a clergyman was or was not unfit to teach. What were the duties of the inspectors, as imposed upon them by the noble Marquess himself, in their visitation of the Church schools? The inspectors were to take special care to inquire how far the doctrines and principles of the Church were instilled into the pupils, and whether the liturgy and services of the Church were carefully explained to them. Were these duties which a clergyman was incompetent to discharge? According to the interpretation put by the noble Marquess on the present Minutes, they involved a breach of faith; for, under the former Minutes, the managers of the schools had the power of appointing or of dismissing masters, without being subject to any of these conditions or restrictions. The right rev. Prelate then proceeded to read and comment upon extracts from what was understood to be the report of the negotiation between the Committee of the Privy Council and the delegates of the Wesleyans; but he was only very indistinctly heard. The chief grievance put forth by the Wesleyans, he said, appeared to be, that the ranks of the new teachers for these schools were to be, as they apprehended, recruited from the order of deacons. This they considered to be a great grievance; and it was the main ground of their objections to the Government measure. Now he (the Bishop of Exeter) could understand that the Wesleyans might offer some objection if parochial clergymen, actually performing the duties and receiving the money of a parish, should also be receiving salary as teachers in these schools. He could conceive that such an arrangement might be considered

369
by them as affording good grounds for objection; but he could not understand how they could object to the appointment of persons who were only in holy orders, and who were not performing any specific parochial or ecclesiastical duties. In one part of the correspondence with the Wesleyan delegates, the noble Marquess made use of the expression, that he felt it to be his "duty" to grant an audience to one of the body who had applied to him for one. Now, he (the Bishop of Exeter) could understand how the noble Marquess should, as a matter of courtesy, grant an audience, even although it was to an individual, and not the whole delegates; but he could not see on what ground he should have done it as a matter of right. His doing so at all, in his individual capacity, as one member only of the Committee, appeared to have been highly irregular. He felt it to be his painful duty, also, to call the attention of the House to another part of the communication between the Committee of Council and the Wesleyans. The latter complained that in schools which were to receive aid from the State—that was to say, more especially in the Church of England schools—the learning of the catechism was to be made compulsory; and also that permission would be refused to the children in such schools to attend those churches or chapels which their parents might prefer. It was quite true that in all the Church of England schools the reading of the catechism and a portion of the liturgy formed part of the system of instruction; and, unless the Committee of Council were prepared to turn round completely on the Church, that system must continue. But what was the noble Marquess's reply? He said, that when the school was considered as a national institution, the managers of it would recognise the present state of the law as to the toleration of diversity of religious opinion; and more especially when applications might come from a denomination, having for the basis of its faith the Apostles' Creed, and which approached so nearly to the Church itself as did the Wesleyan body. This was the answer of the noble Marquess to that objection of these Wesleyans—an answer which, he did not hesitate to say, encouraged resistance to the fundamental principles of the Church of England. It had been distinctly understood that the requirements of the Church of England should be observed in the schools in question; but the declaration
370
of the noble Marquess to the Wesleyans, which he had just referred to, was as much as to say to them, "Be quiet, bide your time, and you will get rid of all these restrictions." This seemed to him to involve a breach of faith, and a disregard of stipulations. This was not only done in a corner, and done for the first time, and done in a clandestine manner, but it was done in direct opposition to the principle upon which the Committee of Council professed to proceed, as their forms for conveyance of sites for schools very evidently showed. In these forms it was provided that the schools should be conducted upon the same principles as the schools of the Incorporated National Society, and that they should in like manner be open to the inspectors. Those forms were drawn up by themselves, and were in conformity with the rules which they told the deputation from the Wesleyan body they were willing to dispense with. When they saw the concessions thus made to the Wesleyan body, they naturally asked who that body was? Did they constitute any large proportion of the population? From a statement published in the year 1845, it appeared that in the whole of Great Britain they did not amount to more than 340,000; they did not form two per cent of the whole population; but by managing their cards well they were able to extort concessions from the Government contrary to good faith. To show the energy and perseverance with which that body guarded their interests, he would refer to an extract explanatory of the application of their funds. The Wesleyan body expended 700 l. to establish the validity of the lay baptism of infants; 315 l. to oppose the education clauses of the Factory Bill; and to those clauses their opposition was so effectual, that Sir J. Graham was compelled to abandon them. He did not blame them for so exerting their influence, but he referred to these facts to show their activity; to which he might add their expenditure of 250 l. to oppose the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. It was now unnecessary for him further to trouble their Lordships. He conceived that he had laid sufficient grounds to justify him in proposing the resolution as above.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEsaid, that the Motion of the right rev. Prelate expressed nothing, and, even if it should be carried, it would leave the matter now before the House precisely in the same position as it was in before the present discussion; and, looking at the terms of the

371
Motion, he could not but feel that their Lordships and the public must come to this conclusion, that something more was meant than the words used by the right rev. Prelate might under ordinary circumstances be expected to convey. That which had no existence, the Motion, even if carried, could not be supposed to touch; but beyond that the Motion might fairly he considered as covertly intended to assert that money voted by the House of Commons for one object, could, by a decision of their Lordships, be diverted to a totally different purpose. Anything more mischievous than that could not possibly go forth to the public. For the purpose of explaining this it would be necessary to recall to their Lordships' recollection that votes of public money for purposes of education had at various times been agreed to by the House of Commons; but until lately they amounted to no very considerable sum. Her Majesty had, however, not long since, been pleased to consign the duty of administering the sums so voted to a Committee of the Privy Council; and after that the votes of the House of Commons, for the purposes of Education, were increased to a very considerable sum. To other Governments who preceded the present Administration in office the management of those sums had been confided; and those who were now the responsible advisers of the Crown had in the due course of official tenure succeeded to the administration of those funds, a Committee of the Privy Council still remaining the active authority in the matter of public education. It was now his duty—and he was by the speech of the right rev. Prelate compelled to perform that duty—to declare that those grants were made for the purposes of education, and for the purposes of education only, and that they were on no account to be diverted from those purposes; that they were not to be handed over, as he should presently show it was the concealed intention of the right rev. Prelate that they should be handed over, to purposes wholly foreign to those which the House of Commons contemplated—at least, he thought that the speech and the Motion of the right rev. Prelate would enable him to show that. If it were intended that the services of the Church should be made available for the purposes of education, then let that be stated openly and in a straightforward manner. If such grants were required, and were thought expedient, lot them be moved for plainly and not covertly. If
372
the country required to have, and that it was expedient forthwith to give the nation, a great system of moral and religious education, let that at once be clearly and unequivocally stated; but a proceeding of that nature would not preclude him from showing that one of the great objects of the votes of money granted by the House of Commons was to create a separate profession of schoolmasters. That fact had been constantly alleged whenever the present question happened to be before their Lordships. Neither he nor those who thought with him were ever very sanguine as to a full realization of the expectations which were entertained on that subject; but they had hoped—and he believed means would be found to fulfil such a hope—that satisfaction could be given on this subject to a great portion of the community; that they might expect to satisfy a very large portion of the religious public—a very large proportion, as well of members of the Church of England as of Dissenters; and if he succeeded in satisfying those large classes, he must put up with the mortification of not satisfying the right rev. Prelate who had brought the present subject under the notice of their Lordships' House. Thus, then, the subject of education had, from time to time, been brought before the House, and the objections to such votes had frequently been laid before Parliament. As for himself he pleaded guilty to the charge that they desired to conciliate the Wesleyan body—that they desired to conciliate the opinions of those whom the right rev. Prelate would perhaps describe as certain hostile powers. However, if they were to be considered hostile, he left their hostility altogether to the right rev. Prelate—he was himself disposed to meet those powers in a spirit of fairness, and he did not deny that he actually wished to conciliate them, although they did not form a majority of the people of England, nor a majority even of the Dissenters. Undoubtedly the principles they laid down, and the opinions they entertained, cut short all controversy, all argument, and made it impossible to arrive at any very successful issue. With other bodies of the people the Committee of Council proceeded to hold the same sort of communication; but they held it in the first instance, and chiefly, with the Wesleyans, who, as the right rev. Prelate had stated, were a very powerful body, embracing a large portion of the people of this country, and of whom it was averred, upon no less authority than that of the most rev. Pre-

373
late, not then present, who was at the head of the Church of this country, that they were a body whom he held more in esteem than any others who dissented from the Church. It was quite true that that body urged the Committee for an immediate answer. They stated that they had some scruples, and required some explanation; and here came, singularly enough, the charge of the right rev. Prelate. The moment the Committee were called upon to give the explanation, he (the Marquess of Lansdowne), wonderful to say, being the President of that Committee, took upon himself to have recourse to an insignificant Member of that Committee, the First Lord of the Treasury, whom the right rev. Prelate seemed to think no authority upon the subject—and with the concurrence of the noble Lord, he (the Marquess of Lansdowne) ventured to indulge those persons with an explanation, which they asked to have soon, because the whole of their body was about to meet a few days after, and they were anxious to communicate that explanation to them. Was there ever a more reasonable thing? The right rev. Prelate seemed to think that the Committee should have said, "No; you are Wesleyans, and do not deserve one word of explanation on the subject." The Committee, however, acted on a different principle, and he was not ashamed to admit it. They endeavoured to give them the best explanation they could, and the grounds upon which that explanation proceeded, and subsequently at once they gave the same explanation to other bodies, to Independents and Presbyterians. The object of the Committee was that all those bodies should be separately informed of the intention of the Committee, for they seemed to be alarmed lest their religious scruples should be affected, and their religion interfered with; and above all to apprehend, as he (the Marquess of Lansdowne) thought, unjustly, that there might be some design of diverting the funds intended for education to some other object;—and, strange to say, when it was his duty, as he felt it was, to endeavour to remove their scruples; when he said, "Depend upon it there is no such intention in Parliament—there is no such intention with the Privy Council—it is voted for education, and it is to he applied to education only;" and when he went still further, and said he was confident that any future Committee of Privy Council, formed of other statesmen and other parties, would be incapable of so diverting those funds—all the different
374
sects said unitedly, or rather, separately—for they met the Committee separately—"Will not the Bishop of Exeter contrive to have so and so done?" Whether they looked to the superior ingenuity of the right rev. Prelate, or to any other cause, he did not know; but certainly they all united in saying—"What you tell us may be true, but there is one person who will contrive to do so." He had, at the time, no reason to believe that the right rev. Prelate would endeavour to make that diversion. He must, however, admit, without attributing to any of those religious bodies, whether Wesleyans, Independents, or Presbyterians, the gift of prophecy, that they did prophecy justly when they said that a very short time would not elapse without the right rev. Prelate making some attempt of that kind. But the right rev. Prelate had accidentally confounded two things entirely different; namely, the aid given for the purpose of building schools, and the aid given for the purpose of annexing to them stipends. The right rev. Prelate said, "Whoever heard of this difficulty springing up before? You seem to have used no precautions before with respect to your schools. You never inquired whether the persons appointed as masters were clergymen or not. You built schools, and left it to chance whether the masters were clergymen or not." He (the Marquess of Lansdowne) could tell the right rev. Prelate, that about 4,000 schools had, under the administration of those invaluable grants successively given by Parliament, been founded, created, and fostered; and he believed that of not one in those 4,000 was the schoolmaster a clergyman. It never occurred to the right rev. Prelate before to make deacons of those schoolmasters; but, no sooner was a stipend given, than he said it was convenient to annex those stipends to deacons, although they were given for a totally different purpose, because the avowed object was, not to make clergymen, but masters of schools. He did not say that the right rev. Prelate might not he justified in wishing to maintain schools in. connexion with the Church; but whoever heard before of a clergyman being the master of a village school? He had no hesitation in saying, that if, at the instigation of the right rev. Prelate, they came to the practice of making deacons of these persons from the moment they received stipends, a totally different object would be answered from that which was intended when the educational vote was granted; and

375
the result would be, that those persons who gave that vote, upon the assurance that it was given for the benefit of persons of all denominations and religions, would find that they had year after year been providing funds for training deacons for holy orders. And amongst whom would the right rev. Prelate choose those deacons? Amongst the worst? No. He presumed amongst the best. Then what object would be answered? Would not those persons be diverted from their profession of schoolmasters? And was it not within the experience of the right rev. Prelate—he would not pay so bad a compliment to that profession to which the right rev. Prelate was so great an ornament as to except them from the general rule of all human nature—that from the moment a person got into the lowest grade of that profession he would occupy his thoughts with how he could get into a higher one? The right rev. Prelate would not tell him that by making those persons deacons, he would not turn their minds away from that profession in which they had been placed, and defraud the public of the expenditure which was exclusively given and allowed by Parliament for the purpose of making and providing schoolmasters. Without a few figures they could hardly tell what the effect of that expenditure could be. Now, it appeared from a paper which he held in his hand that the cost of apprenticeship for five years of persons ultimately to become schoolmasters was 95 1. To maintain the same individuals in the normal schools would be 70 1. more, and a salary of five years would cost 125 1. more; so that at an expense of 290 1. they would be providing for deacons and the career of the Church persons who were never intended for that profession, but were educated by the public for village schoolmasters. A greater diversion from the object which was contemplated by the public, could not exist. Although there had been no precaution omitted to secure religious education being given—although every care had been taken, by making the schools subject to the inspection of the clergy, to provide for their religious character, yet it was never intended that the mind of the actual teachers should be given to the abstruse doctrines of theology, which might enable them to rise in the Church, but to the more sober and more humble kind of knowledge, which might enable them to impart practical information to the great mass of the community. That was the object with
376
which the Legislature had given those grants; they had been made for the purpose of raising the schoolmasters in the estimation of the public; of training them to that profession; and when they had been so trained, of keeping them attached for ever to the graver duties of national education. The right rev. Prelate had gone into another topic. He seemed to think that this plan was somewhat inconsistent with the adherence the Committee had given to the rules of the National Society. That adherence had been founded upon the great practical object of connecting schools with the Church under the National Society. Undoubtedly, all the schools that had come under the superintendence of that society had conformed to its rules; but, notwithstanding that circumstance, a large and most respectable body had been in favour of a relaxation of these rules; and if this plan were adverse to them, it was so in consonance with the opinions of a large and most respectable body of persons. With respect to the Motion, it would have no practical effect whatever. It said, "That it is the opinion of this House that persons in holy orders not exercising ecclesiastical functions ought not as such to be ineligible to the office of schoolmaster in schools receiving aid from the Parliamentary grant." They were not ineligible now. They would not be more eligible if the Motion of the right rev. Prelate were agreed to. But it appeared to him that if it were, funds which were granted and intended for one object, would be made subservient to another; and of this he was confident, that if it were put in that distinct shape, and that object wore to be avowed, a more effectual course for stopping those grants and preventing future appropriations for the purposes of education, by the assembly which represented not only the Church of England but those whom the right rev. Prelate seemed to regard as the enemies of the Church, could not be taken. The majority of that assembly were convinced that the grant was to be confined to education, and education only; and if they entertained a belief that there was any design to wrest it to any other purpose, however laudable it might be in the opinion of the right rev. Prelate, but distinct from education, it would most effectually check those votes, or, if not, would call forth an expression of opinion the very reverse of that which the right rev. Prelate had thought it wise and discreet to provoke on

377
that occasion. He would state, that as far as his own opinion went, the adoption of the Motion of the right rev. Prelate would have no effect at all. It would leave the clergy eligible precisely as they were before; and the want of any distinct expression being given to the views of the right rev. Prelate would not, in the slightest degree, impede Her Majesty's Ministers in administering the vote as they proposed to administer it.
LORD STANLEYsaid, the question lay in a very narrow compass, although much extraneous matter had been introduced into it both by the right rev. Prelate and the noble Marquess. The question was this, and only this—was it right and just, at the request of the Dissenters, to lay down such rules as would exclude from schools in connexion with the National Society receiving aid from the Government persons otherwise qualified, because they were in holy orders? That was the question brought before their Lordships by the right rev. Prelate; and he knew not upon what ground the noble Marquess could suppose that the right rev. Prelate had any ulterior object or design beyond that. He had had no communication with the right rev. Prelate out of that House; but, judging from what had taken place in that House, he should say, that if the fact were as stated by the noble Marquess, that the Motion of the right rev. Prelate would, if carried, not alter the existing state of things, or that there was no declared manifestation with regard to schoolmasters being in holy orders, the end of the right rev. Prelate would he answered by such a declaration. On the other hand, he was bound to say, that if he correctly understood the noble Marquess to state that the Dissenters who had applied to the Committee had laid no claim to the exclusion of persons in holy orders from those schools that were made the charge of the National Schools, why then cadit quœstio.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEsaid, that the Dissenters had made no such claim; they only desired to have some explanation.
LORD STANLEY: Then it appeared the fact stood thus—that the clergy of the Church of England were not ineligible to receive stipends as schoolmasters of the National Society's schools; and although the noble Marquess laid down that rule, yet, in point of fact, in 99 out of 100 cases, or indeed 999 out of 1,000, the persons receiving the stipend would not be clergymen.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEexplained (as was understood) that the Dissenters objected to this.
LORD STANLEYhoped it would not be supposed that he was a bigot in matters of education, or in favour of exclusive education, or that he would deprive the dissenting population of the aid afforded by the State to schools; and if the Dissenters had laid down the claim that their own schools should not be interfered with, or their efficiency impaired, or that united schools should not have clergymen as schoolmasters, he thought they would have a right to say that the masters should not be clergymen, and he would be prepared to admit that such a claim on the part of the Dissenters would be just and fair and reasonable, and that the Government would be right in acceding to it; but the Dissenters had no plea or pretence for laying down, as a condition of their accepting the aid of the Government, that the schools connected with the Church of England should not receive aid exclusive of their own restrictions. The Dissenters had no right to prescribe, as a condition of their accepting aid, that clergymen of the Church of England should not receive aid in connexion with other schools. The noble Marquess objected to the diversion of the stipend of masters to other purposes, and he objected to the application of the stipends to what he said was not for the purposes of education, hut for increasing the Church of England. He did not think this a fair representation of the right rev. Prelate's proposition. It was not sought to grant the stipends to the clergymen quia clergymen; but it was sought not to lay down a rule, that because an individual happened to belong to the clerical order he should be debarred from receiving any portion of the sum voted for tuition and education by the country; and that, as respected Church of England schools, ministers of the Church of England should be disqualified from conducting education. He could understand that there would be some objection to the prospect that, by receiving stipends as clergymen, a greater number of young men would be led into the Church, out of which a selection could be made of a larger number to perform the services of the Church. That might be possible; but was it a reasonable objection to a plan, that, in carrying out the purposes of the State, it increased the efficiency of the Church? He did not think it an objection which the Dissenters had a right to

379
make, or the Government to entertain. He believed that no step could be taken which would more improve the condition of the English schools than if they were placed within the acceptance of the inferior orders of the clergy, who would carry with them, by their position, greater respectability in the eyes of those whose education they had to superintend. Another objection taken by the noble Marquess was, that the schoolmaster should not be allured into other professions; but not only would the admission to holy orders not tend to divert these persons from the profession of schoolmasters, but a great impetus would be given to the profession of schoolmaster; for, after admission to holy orders, they could not enter upon other pursuits, and this fact would tend to hind them more firmly for the rest of their lives to their profession of schoolmasters. With respect to this very plan, the noble Marquess proposed that the scholars should receive Government rewards.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE: But not to continue schoolmasters at the same time.
LORD STANLEYdid not suppose that the noble Prelate proposed, after the parties took orders and had duty, that they should continue schoolmasters; and as to the objection of the cost of preparing them as schoolmasters and then losing their services, what security was there under the present plan that, after their training as schoolmasters, they would not enter into other occupations? whereas, after they became clergymen, they would be debarred from entering upon other professions. For these reasons he did not think, though the noble Marquess had dwelt with much sarcasm upon this point, in opposing the Motion of the right rev. Prelate, that he had substantiated the justice of the exclusion; but as the noble Marquess declared that no pledge had been given to render the appointment of clergymen impossible, the object of the right rev. Prelate had been answered by the discussion, and in the state of their Lordships' House he did not think it would be wise to press the Motion to a division.
The BISHOP of NORWICHrejoiced to hear from the right rev. Prelate that it was his intention to ordain deacons, and he was ready to follow his example, for they must open the doors of their Church much wider to procure a sufficient number of clergymen. He was ready and willing to ordain young persons even from those
380
schools if they should be competent; but he wished to act straightforwardly, and not to receive for this purpose money out of the public funds which ought to come out of their own private sources. He was sure that the right rev. Prelate's proposal would not be carried in the other House, but that it would create disgust throughout the country, especially amongst the Dissenters; and he agreed with the noble Marquess that this was not the moment when they ought to oppose or exasperate other bodies not connected with the Church. He was for conciliation in the best sense of the term; and he objected to striking a side blow which would not satisfy the country, nor, he believed, the better parts of the Church. He was willing to ordain deacons, but he was unwilling that they should remain schoolmasters; for he thought it would excite considerable suspicion against the schools if they remained schoolmasters, and that Dissenters and others unconnected with the Church would be driven away from the schools. Indeed, he was strongly opposed to any system like that proposed by the right rev. Prelate, which would pay out of the public funds for the education of those who were in point of fact educated for the Church.
The EARL of CHICHESTERthought that the right rev. Prelate's resolution, coupled with his speech, would produce the most disastrous effects. In the present state of the Church, he was opposed to the proposal of the right rev. Prelate, because he thought it incompatible with the good government of the schools and the general welfare of the people. He considered the plan of Her Majesty's Government to have been devised with great wisdom, and also with great justice to all parties; and he believed that to be the opinion, not only of a great body of the Dissenters, for whom the right rev. Prelate supposed this concession to be made, but to the great body of the members of the Church themselves.
After some observations by the BISHOP of SALISBURY, which were wholly inaudible,
The BISHOP of EXETER said, he would not press his Motion.
Motion withdrawn.
House adjourned.