Lords Sitting of 19 July 1847

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—2a Poor Removal Act Amendment (No. 2); Consolidated Fund (Appropriation); Commons Inclosure (No. 3).
Reported.—Herring Fishery (Scotland); New Zealand (No. 2).
3a and passed:—London Bridge Approaches Fund; Canal Companies; Destitute Persons (Ireland, No. 3); Highway Rates; Militia Pay; Copyright (Colonies); Public Works and Drainage (Ireland); Constabulary Force (Ireland); Mussel Fisheries (Scotland).
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Lord Beaumont, from Cardiff, and a great number of other places, against the Proposed Plan of Government Education.—By the Duke of Richmond, from Norwich, for Repeal of the Existing Laws relative to Rating, and the Law of Settlement; from Sussex, for Repeal of the Duty on Malt; and from Agricultural Tenants of Nottingham, for Compensation for unexhausted Improvements, and to place them on the same footing as Tradesmen and Manufacturers as regards Fixtures and Buildings erected by them for the purpose of carrying on their Business.

MR. R. OWEN'S PETITION.
LORD BROUGHAMpresented a petition from a gentleman of great philanthropy, and whose merits were of a high order, though most of their Lordships differed in opinion with him on certain subjects—he meant Mr. R. Owen. This gentleman had devoted a long life, and Spent the bulk of a large fortune—the acquisition of his honest and skilful industry—in benefiting his fellow-creatures. He was the real and first author of Infant Schools, having formed the earliest establishment of this kind at New Lanark, in the year 1802. The only step which he (Lord Brougham), in concert with his noble Friend opposite (the Marquess of Lansdowne), Mr. J. Smith, Mr. Mill, Mr. Macaulay, Mr. Wilberforce, Lord Dacre, and others who joined him, had made, was this—that Mr. Owen's, in 1802, was connected with his manufactory; and Mr. Fellenberg's, in 1810, was connected with his farm; so that the children belonged in each case to the establishment; consequently, this could not become an institution of a general nature; and then he (Lord Brougham) and his associates took the simple and easy, though important step, of separating the school from any establishment, either manufacturing or agricultural, and planted it in Westminster, near the House. His noble Friend (the Marquess of Lansdowne) and himself sat for several mornings early there to receive the poor children—nearly 200 in number— and this school flourishing, was the parent of all the others now established; among the rest, of Mr. Wilderspin's, which was a year after planted in Spitalfields by Mr. Wilson—one of their (Lord Brougham's and the Marquess of Lansdowne's) associates in the Westminster school of 1819. But they had all merely taken Mr. Owen's plan; and he had lent them the schoolmaster and mistress for half a year; but
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they remained for six years. Therefore, Mr. Owen it was who alone had the unspeakable merit of being the author of this most important system. His other opinions and principles belonged to a different class; but humanity and perfect tolerance presided over them all. Differing with others widely, he never objected to the most vehement attacks on his very peculiar opinions. He had many years ago examined the state of Ireland, and felt confident at that time, as he did now, that his economical system was pecularly adapted to meet and relieve the distresses of that country. As soon as he heard of those distresses he had started over from America to tender his help. His petition described his principles, and prayed that either a Committee or a Commission might be appointed to examine his plans fully. This petition his Lordship now presented.

LEITH HARBOUR AND DOCKS BILL.
LORD CAMPBELLmoved that this Bill be now read 3a.
LORD REDESDALErecommended that the Bill should be recommitted, as it was impossible to deal with it in a satisfactory manner, unless by discussing it clause by clause.
LORD CAMPBELLobjected.
LORD REDESDALEsaid, that under these circumstances he should move that the Bill be read a third time this day three months.
After a short conversation, in which Lord BROUGHAM, Lord CAMPBELL, the Duke of RICHMOND, Earl GREY, and other Peers took part,
On question that the word "now" stand part of the Motion, House divided:—Contents 26; Not-Contents 20: Majority 6.

List of the CONTENTS.

DUKE

VISCOUNT.

Norfolk

Falkland

MARQUESSES.

BISHOP.

Clanricarde

St. Asaph

Lansdowne

LORDS.

EARLS.

De Mauley

Auckland

Camoys

Grey

Cottenham

Fingall

Wrottesley

Radnor

Montford

Devon

Stafford

Granville

Strafford

Bruce

Dunalley

Minto

Lilford

Bessborough

Sudely

Fitzhardinge

Campbell

List of the NOT-CONTENTS.

DUKES.

Montrose

Richmond

Buccleuch

509

MARQUESSES.

VISCOUNTS.

Ayslesbury

Combermere

Huntley

Sydney

EARLS.

Harewood

LORDS.

Nelson

Sondes

Enniskillen

Colville

Rosse

Walsingham

St. Germans

Redesdale

Stradbroke

Gray

Cardigan

Colchester

Resolved in the Affirmative: Bill read 3a accordingly.
The further Proceedings on this Bill were as follows: Amendments made. Then it was moved, in Clause I, to leave out ("Forty-seven") and insert ("Fifty-two"): on Question, That the Words proposed to be left out stand Part of the Bill, House divided;—Contents 21; Non-Contents Hi: Majority 5. Resolved in the Affirmative. Then it was moved, to leave out Clause II; objected to; and Motion (by Leave of the House) withdrawn. Then it was moved, in Clause III., to insert, after the Word ("them") the following Words ("up to the Term of Whitsunday one thousand eight hundred and fifty-two"); objected to; and, on Question, Resolved, in the Negative, Then it was moved, after Clause III., to insert the following Clause: ("And be it enacted, That all Powers of borrowing or raising Money under an Act passed in the Second Year of Her present Majesty, intituled 'An Act to regulate and secure the Debt due by the City of Edinburgh to the Public; to confirm an Agreement between the said City and its Creditors; and to affect a Settlement of the Affairs of the said City and the Town of Leith' shall cease and determine, and the same are hereby repealed"); objected to; and, on Question, Resolved in the Negative. Then it was moved, to leave out Clauses ("IV.") and ("VI."): on Question, Resolved in the Affirmative. Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

NEW ZEALAND (No. 2) BILL.
On Motion that the House do go into Committee,
EARL GREYobserved, that the efforts of the Government to restore tranquillity in New Zealand had been attended with the happiest results, and he was glad to say that there was now every prospect of the colony being placed in a position of prosperity.
EARL ST. GERMANS, as one who had always taken a lively interest in the colony, was happy to have an opportunity to express his gratification at the excellent prospects which now appeared to be opening before it, and also to award the need of his approbation to the wisdom which had distinguished the policy of the Government with respect to the colony.
Bill reported.

POOR REMOVAL ACT AMENDMENT (No. 2) BILL.
LORD CHURCHILLmoved that the Bill be now read 2a.
LORD REDESDALEobjected. He considered it objectionable in many respects, but in none more so than in these—that it involved the principle of union rating, and necessitated boards of guardians to become tribunals for the decision of questions of settlement. The Committee which had sat to consider the law of settlement had not recommended an union settlement. He trusted that ample opportunity for discussion would be afforded when the Bill was committed.
On question, resolved in the affirmative, Bill read 2a
House adjourned.