Lords Sitting of 4 February 1847

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS.—1a Chelsea Pensions.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Ilkeston, and Fornham, St. Martin's, for the Abolition of the present Law of Settlement, and the Enacting of Laws more conducive to
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the Welfare of the Poor.—From Cork, for the Adoption of such Measures as will ensure a proper Supply of Food to the People of Ireland.—From Clackmannan, and Kincardine, against the Proposed Measure for Lowering the Duty on Rum.—From T. T. Crybbace, A.M., for the Adoption of Measures for the Better Regulation of Wages, and for the Employment of the People of Ireland.

IRISH POOR IN LIVERPOOL.
LORD BROUGHAMsaid, he found he had been led into error by a valued correspondent in stating that the soup-kitchens of Liverpool were shut upon the Sundays. He had received a communication from the committee, in which they denied the statement; and he was bound to say he had been misinformed, his friend, no doubt, having made the statement, not upon his own authority, but upon that of others. He found, however, that in Glasgow the fact was so. He then held in his hand a bread and soup ticket, given by some charitable person in Glasgow, which would entitle the holder to a certain amount of bread and soup on any day until the 1st of May, except on Sundays. These words were printed on the card, so there could be no mistake in that case. But that was of a piece with the usual conduct of the Sabbatarians of that city. A fire took place in Glasgow some time ago, wherein damage was done to the amount of thousands. The fire was on a Sunday, and the proprietor was in Edinburgh. Of course his presence was very necessary, and application was made to the railway authorities that a person might be allowed to go for him by the mail train; but this request they absolutely refused, so that those persons thought that works of mercy and necessity were great crimes if performed on a Sunday. The influx of Irish paupers was still going on: on the 30th of January, no less than 1,063 were landed; and on the 31st, 2,278. From Cork, on the extreme west coast of Ireland, there came 240; from Sligo, 701; Drogheda, 692; Newry, 272; and from Dublin, 911; with others from various places, making 3,340 persons in two days; while thousands were still flocking down to the ports for the purpose of following. What was to be done under such circumstances? The Government ought not to confine their relief to the Irish landlords and the Irish generally. Was Liverpool to have no relief? He had seen it stated that Ireland need not despair while there was a guinea in the English Exchequer. What! was that to be the rule? The English were suffering as well as the Irish and the Scotch; they were not dying of starvation,

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but they were wearing out their lives by a slow but no less sure progress. Was it not a grievance that Liverpool was to be so inundated that in eleven days they were compelled to afford relief in 198,000 cases in addition to their own poor? Did the people of Liverpool want no relief? They asked for it, and in his opinion they had a right to demand it.

THE PRICE OF FOOD.
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNEpresented a petition from the mayor, aldermen, and burgesses of Cork, praying of their Lordships to take some measures for the purpose of diminishing the price of food in Ireland. The noble Marquess took that opportunity of stating that he concurred in the opinion expressed by his noble and learned Friend opposite (Lord Brougham) the other evening, that the Government ought not to take any measures which would interfere with the market price of food. The system had been tried, and it had been found to operate most injuriously. The result was a grievous scarcity of provisions in every place the very week following that during which it had been tried; and in some instances, the provision dealers were obliged to shut up their shops, in consequence of the losses they had sustained. He was also perfectly ready to concur in opinion with the noble and learned Lord, that it was the duty of the Government, as far as possible, to remit obstructions to supplies of food being obtained by the people.
The DUKE of RICHMOND: I think it is desirable that it should not go forth to the country that there is likely to be a great dearth of provisions in this country. So much has been stated about famine in Ireland, it is now said in many parts of England that there will be a scarcity of corn, and that all the evils of a famine may be apprehended. Now, I believe that that is not the case, as I believe that there is a great deal of corn in the hands of persons in this country. Besides, when, coupled with this, we see such large imports of grain from the United States, there is little reason for people to consider that the country will encounter a famine. I, for one, have no apprehension of a famine here.
EARL FITZWILLIAMhad not the slightest doubt that the supply of wheat, both in England and Ireland, was sufficient for those who were consumers of wheat. This would necessarily be absorbed,
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and certainly the finer qualities of wheat would be scarce, and perhaps there might be a scarcity in the secondary qualities also; but he was anxious to correct one mistake which might be injurious out of doors. An impression had been created by the words of his noble and learned Friend, and he was anxious to correct the notion, that the people of England were suffering anything like the same destitution as that which was experienced in Ireland. The people of Ireland were not consumers of wheat, but of other produce; and as the potato crop had totally failed, want was not only felt in Ireland, but there was absolute destitution. This was a notion which he earnestly desired to correct; for if it were not corrected, it might lead to a relaxation of those efforts which were indispensable to relieve the Irish people from starvation.
LORD BROUGHAMwas anxious to explain that he had never entertained the idea that the destitution in England was in any degree equal to that in Ireland. When he made the observation to which his noble Friend referred, he had in his eye Glasgow, Liverpool, and Bristol, the ports on the western coast where a scarcity of corn had been severely felt. The point which he desired to bring under their Lordships' notice was the fact, that while great exertions had been made for the relief of Ireland, nothing like the same effort had been manifested for the poor of Scotland and England. He found no fault with the contributions that had been made for the suffering poor in Ireland. In his opinion, it did the people of this country great honour; for all classes had equally exerted themselves to succour those whom he would call their fellow-countrymen, and among the most active was that amiable, that excellent body, the Society of Friends, who, although only a small community, had contributed the munificent sum of 30,000 l.
House adjourned.