HL Deb 05 May 1846 vol 86 cc94-109

The Order of the Day that Her Majesty's most Gracious Message should be considered, read.


My Lords, I am about to perform a duty which is no less gratifying to myself, than I hope it will be to your Lordships. It will not, however, be necessary for me to trouble your Lordships at any length upon the subject I am about to mention; because, in the course of the present Session, upon no less than two occasions, I have been called upon to detail to your Lordships the eminent services of the Governor-General and the Commander-in-Chief in India. I then thought it my duty to state to your Lordships the circumstances under which those glorious victories had been recently achieved by the British arms in that part of the world; and your Lordships were pleased to receive the statements I made, and the Motions with which I concluded, with such cordial unanimity, that it would be an idle waste of time were I to travel over the same ground upon this occasion. I am sure, however, that your Lordships will have felt that, when Her Majesty was pleased to raise to the honour of the Peerage those two distinguished individuals, it was upon every account a most appropriate exercise of the Royal Prerogative. It was one which it was as natural for Her Majesty to grant, as it must have been gratifying to those individuals to receive; and I am quite certain that you will feel it to be not less an honour conferred upon yourselves than it is upon the individuals to whom I have alluded, to have seats in this House of Parliament. I venture, there- fore, to presume that, in submitting the Motion for an Address to Her Majesty with which I shall conclude, your Lordships will be heartily inclined to concur in it. That Address will be to the effect that your Lordships will concur in taking measures for carrying into effect the object Her Majesty states in Her Message She has in view in recommending Viscount Hardinge and Lord Gough to your consideration. But, my Lords, Her Majesty in that Message refers not merely to the brilliant services which it has fallen to the lot of these two gallant men recently to perform, but She adverts also, amongst the motives which induced Her to bring this subject by Message under your consideration, to other and earlier services which it has been in their power to render to their country; and I think it will be right that I should shortly advert to those earlier services, in order to show to your Lordships that the merits of these two distinguished officers are not confined to their late efforts, but that they have been in both cases manifested in a long career of noble, gallant, and successful exertions in the profession to which they belong. My Lords, neither of these gallant officers is young—the younger of them has been forty-two years in Her Majesty's army—I refer to Viscount Hardinge. He entered that service at a very early period of life—at the commencement of the present century; he joined his regiment before he was fifteen years of age; he joined it in Canada, and came home a lieutenant after the peace of Amiens, when so large a portion of the troops who were then on foreign service returned to this country. But he was not desirous of wasting his time in idleness, or the enjoyment of the comforts of home; and he therefore took advantage of the institution which is now the Military College at Sandhurst, for the purpose of there pursuing that scientific course of study which is so advantageous to those who wish to acquire all that is necessary for efficiency in the service, and which has sent forth to the army such a number of distinguished individuals. In 1807, I think it was, he was appointed to the staff of the corps commanded by Sir Brent Spencer, which was then destined for foreign service; but the destination of that corps was afterwards changed, and it was sent to Portugal, to serve under my noble Friend the noble Duke behind me (the Duke of Wellington), and Lord Hardinge was present as a young lieutenant, I believe, in the first two battles fought in the Peninsula, at the commencement of that campaign, the memory of which will never expire in this country. He was present at the battle of Vimiera, and there he received his first wound; for he has had the misfortune—I will not say misfortune, for that would seem to be an inappropriate term—but it has been his fortune to be wounded three times. However, at Vimiera, he received his first wound; but he continued with the army in its inarch into Spain under Sir John Moore, who was so struck with his bravery and talents as a young officer, that he placed him on his own staff; and he was one of those who had the melancholy task of witnessing the expiring breath of that gallant and distinguished commander. He came home with that army when it returned; but no sooner were reinforcements sent out, and further military operations contemplated in the Peninsula, than he made application to accompany them. He was then appointed Assistant Quartermaster General of the Portuguese army under Field Marshal Beresford; and no doubt he was selected for that duty on account of the peculiar skill he had displayed in the management and formation of troops; and he continued in that situation for the greater part of the remaining campaign in that country. He was present, I think, in almost every battle that was fought; his name was mentioned in several, and he did his duty in all. He was present at the battles of Vimiera and Corunna: at the passage of the Douro; at the battle of Busaco; and at all the operations connected with the defence of the lines of Torres Vedras; and next at the famous battle of Albuera, one of the most remarkable specimens, I think, of gallantry and success that has ever been exhibited. He was colonel at that time, I believe; but whatever his rank was, high or low, the share he had personally in directing some of the operations in the course of that battle can never be forgotten by those who witnessed them, or by the army to whose victory he so essentially contributed. He was present at both the first two sieges of Badajoz, and at the siege and capture of Ciudad Rodrigo; he was also present at the third siege of Badajoz; at the battle of Salamanca; at the battle of Vittoria, where he was severely wounded; and at the battle of the Pyrenees, that desperate affair, which lasted no less than three days, and where there was more or less of the variety of fortune, but which ended in a victory over one of the most gallant and distinguished officers of the French army, Marshal Soult. He was afterwards at the passage of the Nivelle, at the battle of the Nive, and at Orthez. In every one of those actions he bore a part; and the situation he held enabled him to acquire more knowledge of the art of war upon a large scale than falls to the lot generally of the regimental officer; for the duties he has to perform are generally confined to the regiment to which he is attached; and I am bound to presume at least that it was the knowledge of his capacity for the discharge of duties of that kind that induced my noble Friend, the noble Duke, in 1815, to attach Colonel Hardinge to Marshal Blucher's army; and I recollect that, in one of those letters, which, happily for the honour of this country, for the benefit of future history, and for the eternal renown of the author of them, have been preserved, my noble Friend, the noble Duke points out Colonel Hardinge to Marshal Blucher, and says, "I send him to you, and he has my entire confidence." Now, my Lords, did any man ever acquire the confidence of that noble Duke without deserving it? And I think there cannot be a greater proof of the talents Lord Hardinge displayed in whatever situation he was placed, than the fact of his being selected by the noble Duke, and enjoying all his confidence to fulfil a most important duty at a most critical period—for it was just before the battle of Waterloo, upon which the fate of all Europe depended. In the execution of that duty with Marshal Blucher, he was present at the battle of Ligny; and there he was for the third time severely wounded. He lost his left hand, which rendered a most painful operation necessary; but he did not abstain from doing his duty in spite of that. I believe he was present at the battle of Waterloo, or some part of it, although he had been under the necessity of undergoing that most painful operation, which to a less ardent spirit would have prevented his taking a share in those operations. My Lords, he has received as a reward for those services, nine medals, one cross, and five clasps. They were given for his service at Badajoz, Albuera, Busaco, Salamanca, Vittoria, the Pyrenees, Nivelle, Nive, Orthez, and last, though not least, Waterloo. Now, I think it may fairly be presumed that a man who has been presented with these nine medals, for services in nine battles which are connected with the history of the last war in Europe, is a man whom we may safely deem to be deserving of the notice which his Sovereign has taken of him, and of the compliment which your Lordships have been called upon to pay him, in conferring upon him the rewards which have been proposed. I do not know, my Lords, that it is necessary for me to say more with respect to Viscount Hardinge; for I am addressing those who do not require to be instructed, but who know as well as I do what his merits are. With respect to Lord Gough, my Lords, he also is an officer whose whole life has been passed in the service of his country. He has been fifty-two years in the army. In the earlier part of his career he was employed in foreign service; he was in a great variety of instances exposed like others to the chances of war; and always performed his duty so as to gain the approbation of the officers under whom he served. In 1806 he joined the army in the Peninsula with his regiment, the 87th, and served with that regiment through the whole of that campaign; and he was present in command of that regiment at Salamanca, Barossa, Vittoria, and Nivelle. He was present also at the siege of Cadiz, and the siege of Xarifa. At the battle of Talavera, his horse was shot under him, and he himself was afterwards severely wounded in the side. At Nivelle he was severely wounded for the third time. It has been his lot, as well as Lord Hardinge's, to suffer three times by severe wounds. He afterwards commanded the land forces in China, and, as your Lordships are well aware, your Lordships were pleased to vote him your thanks, within the last three or four years, for the services he performed; and no doubt those thanks were richly deserved. He is now colonel of that regiment with which he served in the Peninsula; and that regiment, my Lords, is an Irish regiment, and Lord Gough is an Irishman, worthy of Ireland, because whatever differences there may be amongst that gallant and high-spirited people, I believe there is no instance on record in which, in the service of their country, by land or sea, these differences have ever produced the slightest relaxation of their exertions, or impaired the efficiency of them. The sound of the trumpet and the roll of the drum appear to silence all differences whatever; and they have but one contest then, and that is who shall best do the duty entrusted to them. Lord Gough is an officer, as I have stated, of long service—of gallant and distinguished merits, and he is a fine old gentleman. [Laughter.] Your Lordships may smile; but I do not think that that characteristic of an Irish soldier is deserving of a smile, except of approbation. He is a man beloved by the troops he commands, and by all the officers who serve under him; and I will mention a circumstance which occurred, when it was proposed to grant him the honour of the Peerage, which is strongly characteristic of the old Irish gentleman. When one of his friends—I believe it was his son—was asked what title Sir H. Gough would have, he said, "My father was always called 'Old Gough,' and I do not think he would like to go to his grave under any other name." That is a fact which makes me think cheeringly of the man; and although it has nothing to do with the high honour he has attained, yet I do not think it misplaced to allude to that little circumstance. My Lords, Her Majesty in this Message invites your Lordships to co-operate with the other House of Parliament, in making some provision for these two distinguished individuals. It is not for me to state to your Lordships what the precise nature of that provision may be: originating as it does in the other House of Parliament, it will doubtless find its way here; but I do wish to state to your Lordships that the Court of Directors of the East India Company, under whom Lord Hardinge and Lord Gough immediately serve, have felt it to be their duty to take such steps as are in their power for granting a pension to Lord Hardinge for life, and one also to Lord Gough; and I am bound to say, in justice to the East India Company, that it was their own spontaneous act. I might, recollecting what had been done in other cases of a similar kind, have felt it was probable, and I did so feel, that the same course would be pursued in the present instance; but I said not one word directly or indirectly to them upon the subject; the liberality they are prepared to show is entirely their own spontaneous act, and is, I think, an honour to them, as it is to those upon whom their liberality is bestowed. Those acts on the part of the Directors of the East India Company cannot, according to the law which regulates their proceedings, take effect immediately; but after having been agreed to by the Court of Directors, must be brought forward by the Directors at the Court of Proprietors, and a certain time must elapse between sending it there and their entering into consideration of it. Still there can be no doubt that the Court of Proprietors, who are never wanting in liberality upon occasions of this kind, will cheerfully and readily concur in what is proposed by the Court of Directors. That, however, is a circumstance which does not render it fitting that we should abstain, whenever the opportunity arises, from recording our sense of the services of those officers; and, therefore, all branches of the Legislature will have done their duty, and the East India Company will have done theirs; and I am sure there can be but one feeling in the minds of these two distinguished officers, of gratitude for the confidence, the approbation, and the liberality of Parliament. The noble Earl then moved the following Addresses:— That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, to return Her Majesty the Thanks of this House for Her Majesty's most Gracious Message, informing this House 'That Her Majesty, taking into Consideration the important Services rendered by Henry Viscount Hardinge, a Lieutenant General in. Her Majesty's Army, and the Governor General of India, in the course of the recent Hostilities which have taken place on the Banks of the Sutlej and in the Punjaub, is desirous to confer some signal Mark of Her Favour, for these and other distinguished Merits, upon the said Henry Viscount Hardinge, and the Two next surviving Heirs Male of the Body of the said Henry Viscount Hardinge,' and to assure Her Majesty that this House will cheerfully concur in such Measures as may be necessary for the Accomplishment of this important Purpose. That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, to return Her Majesty the Thanks of this House for Her Majesty's most Gracious Message, informing this House, 'That Her Majesty, taking into Consideration the great and brilliant Services performed by Hugh Lord Gough, a Lieutenant General in Her Majesty's Army, Commander in Chief of Her Majesty's and the East India Company's Forces in India, in the course of the recent Hostilities which have taken place on the Banks of the Sutlej and in the Punjaub, is desirous to confer some signal Mark of Her Favour for these and other distinguished Merits, upon the said Hugh Lord Gough, and the Two next surviving Heirs Male of the Body of the said Hugh Lord Gough,' and to assure Her Majesty that this House will cheerfully concur in such Measures as may be necessary for the Accomplishment of this important Purpose.


My Lords, I wish to say a very few words upon this subject. I have already had the opportunity of expressing the deep sense which I entertain of the eminent services and heroic actions of both the individuals who are the subjects of this Message; and I have the satisfaction to be made aware that, in expressing that sense, I was only expressing the unanimous feeling of this House; and, my Lords, I feel now, that it would be to run the risk of being wearisome to your Lordships, if, indeed, any sense of weariness could be entertained in connexion with a consideration so conducive to the glory and the future prosperity of this country, were I now to repeat all that I then felt, and which I still continue to feel, upon the subject. My noble Friend who has moved the Address in answer to this Message, has most fully and particularly, and I must say, most naturally, taken this opportunity of adverting, not only to those great events which are immediately present to your Lordships' recollection, and have recently demanded your attention, but he has also taken this opportunity of adverting in detail to that series of actions which in both the cases now before your Lordships have marked from the earliest dawn of their career the life and conduct of these two eminent individuals. It is the fortune of the great majority of those who are engaged in public life, whether military or civil, that it is only at the close of their career, and when death has put an end to their efforts, that the public are excited to a general review of their past conduct, and are enabled justly to appreciate the whole of their career, and to weigh and pronounce upon the qualities and extent of the merits they have displayed. But some are so fortunate that, as in the present case, it happens that some great and brilliant achievement is performed, which throws a light so intense, so vivid, and so brilliant, that it is at once reflected back upon the whole of the past career of the individual by whom it is accomplished, and that the more recent transactions are viewed only as the crowning halo of past glory, and as placing the capital on the summit of the column. Such is the case in the present instances; and we are enabled to feel not only that we are admitting among us persons whose recently earned honours no one will be found to depreciate, but persons who, through a long course of usefulness, and in many distinguished services, have never ceased to prove their title to the dignity they have ultimately attained. My Lords, I say, with the fullest confidence that I am speaking the sentiments of all your Lordships, that at no time has this House by Her Majesty's command, ever opened its doors to two more noble spirits, or two more welcome guests. Having said that, I can add nothing to what my noble Friend has stated; but as it is notorious, and as it has been stated by my noble Friend, that the Mes- sage has been presented with the view of calling for your Lordships' concurrence in proceedings which it is expected and hoped will take place in the other House of Parliament, for the particular purpose of conferring pecuniary rewards upon these two eminent persons, I wish to take this opportunity of stating, that, concurring in the Message in this respect, I do not do so to confer any pecuniary reward for exclusively military services; I do so because, in consequence of the advice of Her servants, Her Majesty having been led to promote these two eminent individuals to the Peerage, I think it fitting that this grant should be made to enable them to sustain the dignity which is their reward. I think it is at all times necessary that when a Peerage has been conferred for services, care should be taken by Her Majesty's advisers that the persons so elevated should be able to maintain themselves in the rank in which they are placed. The rank and situation thus given absolutely disqualifies the heirs of these persons from seeking an honest and honourable livelihood in many of the various professions in this country which are open to others; and therefore that it is more especially incumbent on Parliament to take care, as far as they can, that their independence should be preserved, and that there should be provided not only the honour, but such a fortune as is necessary to secure that independence. It is not for me, however, to condemn or to object to the act of liberality of Her Majesty's Government; it should be in their discretion to grant any rewards of this sort; and it is a discretion which ought not in such instances to be exercised by either House of Parliament. I neither mean to call for its exercise or to object to it, but wish to place the vote I am about to give, on the Answer to this Message upon the consideration that the great honour of the Peerage having been conferred, it is in all cases incumbent on Parliament and upon each House to take care that it should be conferred on individuals whose independence should be perfectly secured, and who should be, as to circumstances, on a footing of equality with the great body of your Lordships. My Lords, I will add no more, save that I most cordially concur in the Address which my noble Friend has moved, and which will, I am sure, meet with our unanimous concurrence.


wished to occupy the attention of their Lordships for a few moments. He was the more desirous to do so, because, on the former occasion, when the names of these gallant Officers had been mentioned, so many noble Lords had spoken in praise of them, that he did not wish to intrude upon their time by any observations of his own. At that moment he could not, however, refrain from expressing briefly, and it might be inefficiently, his sentiments. He wished to say that he, as an individual, felt proud to belong to the army. He felt on this occasion, as he was sure every soldier must feel—he felt most proud to belong to an army like that in the East Indies—an army that had acted so gloriously; and he was sure that there was no person, from the humblest ensign to the field marshal, like himself, who must not be proud to belong to the same army. He was sure these events must give great satisfaction to their worthy Commander in Chief (the Duke of Wellington), to witness the conduct of those officers whom he had bred and trained. He wished to say how much he approved of the conduct of those gallant commanders—of Lord Gough and the present Lord Hardinge. He could not refrain from testifying his admiration for the gallantry and bravery shown in these battles, each of which seemed to rise beyond its predecessor in fame, and to entitle them to still greater renown.


My Lords, I am sure that I only echo the sentiments of all your Lordships when I say, that as the illustrious Prince has so fitly and so well expressed his satisfaction at belonging to an army in which there are such officers and such men; so we may equally congratulate ourselves that we belong to an assembly whose doors are now thrown open to those illustrious warriors; and I trust that nothing I am about to add will be deemed by any possibility to betoken any exception—it is impossible to take any exception—it is impossible to dissent from one word which has been spoken in praise of the gallant officers on whom the Crown has conferred the honour of the Peerage, or to cast a shadow of a shade of doubt on the conduct of the Government or of the House in approving of the vote about to be passed in accordance with the recommendations of Her Majesty's Government. My gratitude is great towards these men, founded partly on their great services in the field, and partly on the skilful and judicious operations of the Governor General before the army took the field; but above all, for that happy termination of that gallantry and success by which an end, as we may well hope, has been finally put to a war which is in itself a great expense, which was of some duration, which has been attended with a great loss of precious blood, and which at one moment might have created alarm in the country, if indeed we could feel any uncertainty or alarm when our interests were entrusted to such soldiers as our Indian army, and to such officers as Hardinge and Gough. But I must say one word with reference to names which are almost equally famous, but which are not now before us. I feel, indeed, the infinite delicacy of any allusion to such a subject. No one can be more aware of the constitutional doctrine and of the rule, which is a rule of expediency, that all honours conferred for services ought to proceed solely upon suggestion from the Crown; yet, when we are congratulating ourselves that the temple of honour has been opened speedily and without delay to the gallant men to whom this country and the whole Empire owe a debt of gratitude which honours and emoluments could never repay, we may regret that the doors of the temple of honour are not also open to others who have already entered the temple of fame; and of whom upon this occasion, my Lords, it may be said as it was said of the absent busts of Brutus that they shine the more, quo minus eorum imagines desunt. His allusion, however, had particular reference to an individual (Sir Charles Napier), one of the most gallant of that heroic band, of those military chiefs, whose deeds were the subject of a nation's gratitude. To his course and valour testimony was not only borne by the Governor General, but by the illustrious Duke under whom he, as well as Lord Hardinge and Lord Gough, were trained and disciplined to war. He named him not altogether for his great achievements, but to show that he was in the recollection of that House, as he was also in the recollection of the country, although, doubtless, for wise and fit reasons, his name was not included in the Message from the Crown.


said, that as he had not before given expression to his opinions on this subject, he could not now content himself with a silent vote. The time which had intervened since this subject was under the consideration of the House, was so far advantageous that we could now regard it with more calmness than was possible in the excitement and exultation of the first intelligence; and we might now, in some sense judge as posterity could judge. After the most dispassionate contemplation of the events in question, he joined in the opinion pronounced not only by this country, but by all Europe—for it gave a character to this age, that throughout Europe there was heard only the voice of generous praise and high-minded approval of our proceedings; and he ventured to assert that the verdict which all Europe had pronounced would be the verdict of posterity—that the history of the last campaign in India was one of the most splendid recorded in the annals of any nation, ancient or modern. In this praise he included, of course, the matchless valour of the troops, and the singular skill of the leaders—he included all the operations of war; but he included also all that preceded and followed the war. He included that forbearance, pushed and nobly pushed to the extreme—a forbearance worthy of a great nation, conscious of its own resources, and anxious only, that if forced into a war, the cause of the quarrel should be so clear that not even envy or slander should be able to breathe a taint on its conduct. Here not a breath had sullied the purity of our motives. He included further the arrangements which followed the termination of the war, which, as far as we were yet enabled to judge, illustrated the moderation and humanity no less than the wisdom of the Governor General. He must call this a most accomplished triumph. Here, crowded and condensed into one campaign, was a series of brilliant victories, each of which singly would have crowned gloriously a separate campaign. Such was the incomparable energy of the commanders—such the irresistible courage of the troops. We had scarcely heard of the first breaking out of the war, and were awaiting the next tidings—not indeed with doubt as to the final result, but with some anxiety as to intermediate events, when victory followed victory with a rapidity perfectly astounding; and we find the forces of the enemy dissipated, his provinces subdued, and the Governor General dictating terms of peace in his capital. This is more like a visitation of nature, than one of the ordinary processes of human action. The bolt instantaneously follows the flash. The tempest sweeps by—it performs its destined work of chastisement, and is past; and all again is tranquil and serene. For these great results our thanks are due, first indeed to that Providence whose superintending care our warriors acknowledged in the very flush of victory; but next to our gallant army and its illustrious leaders. The moral effect of the late campaign could not be exaggerated. It had been felt throughout the civilized world, and would be felt through many succeeding generations. In the midst of peace, and after thirty years of repose, we had been once more roused to war; and though we had long enjoyed opulence, and luxury, and ease, we were found to be still the nation which former exploits had shown us to be, and our soldiers were still the same as all experience had proved them at Salamanca, at Waterloo, and at Blenheim. Did they not owe their thanks, then, to those by whom such results had been accomplished? The nation had not been slow to pay all honour to those gallant men; and their Lordships would be eager to join in this vote of approbation. There was one circumstance which redounded highly to the honour of the army in all its gradations, especially of all the officers; and, of course, of the highest officers—that in the course of this bloody campaign, and in the midst of these bloody victories, there had not been one act of cruelty or any wanton aggravation of the calamities of war; that not one drop of blood had been shed more than the exigency required. There seems to have been but one feeling among all classes—a reluctance to engage in war; and, being engaged in it, an anxiety to close it with honour, and to heal the wounds which it compelled to be opened. With respect to Lord Gough, he could only say that he rejoiced in his success the more because he believed that his private excellencies corresponded with the glory of his military career. With respect to Lord Hardinge, his was a case of accumulated glory resulting from military and civil achievements. During the short period that he had been Governor General of India, he had acquired the confidence of the people of that country. But a short time before he left Bengal for the upper provinces he had issued a proclamation or decree declaring that all offices held by natives should be filled by those best qualified, whatever might be the seminary in which they had been educated. So well did he follow the example set by Lord W. Bentinck, one of the best and wisest governors that India ever possessed; and the effects of that decree could be scarcely appreciated at the moment; it would redound to the credit of the Governor General, and to the benefit of the British nation, and of our Indian empire. His noble and learned Friend had alluded with great delicacy to a topic which it was very difficult to touch—regret that the doors of that House were not opened to other distinguished persons; and he might be allowed to express his regret that an honour yet higher than had been hitherto bestowed, had not been conferred on that distinguished officer whose name during the late campaign could never be separated from those of Hardinge and Gough, he meant Sir H. Smith. His name would always be found forming part of that illustrious triumvirate, who had carried our arms from victory to victory. Sir H. Smith's career has from first to last been brilliant: on every emergency he had shown great qualities. In all parts of the world, he has exhibited the same energy, skill, wisdom, and consummate military talent in a more limited sphere indeed; but throughout in a manner which gave the highest promise of all that has now been so gloriously accomplished. In conclusion, let him say a word with regard to those who had fallen. He thought that some memorial worthy of a great nation should be erected, on which should be inscribed the names of every individual who had perished from the highest to the lowest, including Sir Robert Sale, Sir John M'Caskill, and Major Somerset, whose career had been brought prematurely to a close, when it might well have been hoped that he would have added more lustre to a name already known to history. They ought to have a memorial, to make, as far as they could be made imperishable, the names of these illustrious men, to whom the country was so deeply indebted.


said, it would be no enviable position in any one who should excite the displeasure of those who proposed this vote by interrupting in the slightest manner the unanimity with which their Lordships were disposed to accept it. It was not his wish to enter upon any discussion, or to raise any debate on points high for the consideration even of that House. He would therefore pass that question by—he would assume for the moment that they had been engaged in a just cause—he would assume that the war might be justified—he would assume all the facts for the moment, though he did not wish to be considered as admitting them without dispute; "but there was one point to which he washed to direct their Lordships' attention. His noble Friend who sat by him had most truly stated that though he would acquiesce in the vote whatever it might be—and what it was to be was still wrapped in mystery —he did not mean to sanction the giving of a direct pecuniary reward to such persons as might be objects of Her Majesty's favour; but that it being Her Majesty's pleasure to elevate a noble person to a seat in that House, it was the duty of Parliament to take care—so far as pecuniary circumstances would contribute to independence—that these persons should be placed in an independent position. He was sure that there was not one of their Lordships who did not acquiesce in that opinion, and in the statement made by his noble Friend. But he felt strongly impelled to call the attention of their Lordships and of the other House of Parliament to this—whether the course which it had been proposed' to them to take—whether voting this pecuniary—reward he could not call it—but whether voting this pecuniary means of maintaining those who were thereafter to be introduced into that House, was wise and dignified for the House to adopt? He wanted to know why they were to stop at the second generation? If those actions were so great as the world agreed in considering them to be, he would say that the nation ought not be niggardly in supporting the honours which were necessarily conferred upon the great men by whom those illustrious actions had been achieved. It was the duty of Parliament to provide for the individuals who were thus to be introduced into that House, not only in the next generation, but in those generations which were to follow. Why stop at the second generation? Was the nation so poor or so ungrateful as not to extend the reward to succeeding generations? Possibly it might be said that, in the course of two generations, fortunes might be amassed by the parties who succeeded to those Peerages sufficient to sustain the dignity of their position. But, with the independent views which a Member of that House and a Peer of Parliament ought to entertain, he did not see how any fortunes could be amassed. In what the House was about to do they should ask themselves this—were they proceeding in a manner calculated to enable the parties interested to sustain, in a becoming manner, the dignity of the Peerage? It appeared to him that there was great want of consideration in the manner of bestowing rewards upon public servants. If it were right to make provision for the first and second generation, why deprive others of that provision? The Peerage was hereditary, and the provision for maintaining its dignity ought to accompany it as long as the Peerage itself lasted. He knew it might be said that the House of Commons would be probably unwilling to saddle posterity with a burden of this kind; but he really thought that, upon reflection, the Crown and both Houses of Parliament would see the expediency and the justice of continuing the provision so long as the Peerage lasted. Few Peerages continued in one family—that was, to the descendants of one man—during more than three generations, and therefore he said that Parliament might be generous without saddling posterity with any additional expense.

Addresses in answer to Her Majesty's Most Gracious Message were then agreed to.

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