HL Deb 03 August 1846 vol 88 cc277-9
The MARQUESS of LANSDOWNE

begged leave, in pursuance of notice, to move the Second Reading of a Bill entitled, "An Act to promote the voluntary Establishment in Towns and Boroughs of Public Baths and Washhouses." Although the Bill had this very humble title and ordinary object, it was nevertheless, in his opinion—and he was sure, after a few moments of reflection, would be in the opinion of their Lordships—entitled to considerable respect, from the object which it professed to attain immediately, and still more from all the objects with which it was connected of a still higher nature; because he believed that if there was anything more demonstrable than another, it was the certain effect of teaching men to entertain self-respect and to cultivate those habits which made them seemly in the eyes of others, and enjoy a state of respectability of which they were conscious themselves. That these habits were connected in an imperceptible degree with many of the highest moral and religious virtues, was a proposition of which he was confident, and was also so well assured that their Lordships were convinced, that he hardly felt it necessary to dwell further upon the subject, than to recommend it to their attention as connected with the immediate object of this Bill. This Bill, which had now been sent to their Lordships from the other House of Parliament, where it had passed in the course of the last fortnight, had the good fortune, which was not always incidental to measures of this description, that while, undoubtedly, it attempted to introduce something like a new system in connexion with cleanliness into the policy of this country, it was founded upon facts which must render their Lordships assured of its necessity, and that its advantages were far beyond mere speculation; for, thanks to the great influence of individuals—thanks to that spirit of enterprise which in the great cities of this country was perpetually directed to the attainment of great public objects connected with the interests of the poor, there were existing now in England, established within the course of the last year, three, if not four, of these great establishments; two had been erected in London; one had had the experience of a year, and the other was on the point of being opened near Euston-square. The first was in the city, in Glasshouse-yard, and there was also a considerable establishment of the same description in the great town of Liverpool. Having informed himself of the practice connected with these establishments, he felt himself justified in stating to their Lordships that merely at the expense of 1½d., the advantages of bathing could be secured to all classes of the community. He found, that in Glasshouse-yard, at an expense of 377l., advantages of bathing and washing were given in 63,142 cases. That in the establishment at Liverpool, where an expenditure of between 2,000l. and 3,000l. was incurred, the actual profit upon the establishment was something like an interest of 3½ per cent upon the capital expended. All, therefore, that was meant by the present Bill was to give a stimulus to private enterprise; not to crush the enterprise where it had already taken place; not to extinguish those establishments which were now working beneficially for the advantage of the public; not to require of all corporations and vestries in England that they should immediately set up these baths—but to enable the corporations and vestries of every parish, with the consent of the Secretary of State, where they should see fit, to establish these baths, and to establish in connexion with these baths a certain rate of payment, that should make them on the one hand accessible to the poor, and on the other hand remunerative to the town and parish in which they were established. He would take this opportunity of adverting to a petition, presented by his noble and learned Friend (Lord Brougham), from parties who had established baths of this description. He knew not what these baths were; but if they existed beneficially, on moderate terms affording the accommodation that was desired and required, it never could be the wish or interest of any corporation or vestry to interfere with them. On the contrary, all that was desired was to step in where private enterprise had not established baths of this description, and to afford the accommodation which was wanting, and of which the necessity was so great. It was a striking fact connected with the Glasshouse-yard establishment—that of 60,000 persons who had derived benefit from it, no less than 9,000 had walked from three to five miles to obtain that advantage. As to the establishment which was on the point of being opened, a great many poor persons had dropped in and expressed their anxiety for its opening, leaving their sixpences voluntarily for that purpose. There would be a power given in the Bill to enable corporations and vestries where it should be for the advantage of the parties to purchase the interests in establishments which already existed, and convert them to the public use. There would also be a power, where there were commissions for paving and lighting, to transfer the management of these establishments to those commissioners, who it was thought might be most capable of administering them. He concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time.

LORD BEAUMONT

said, that when he first read the Bill, he was afraid that it might be productive of jobbing, for it enabled vestries to appoint paid servants; and he thought that the love of patronage might induce them to establish these baths for that purpose, when other similar institutions existed, and the whole might be charged on the poor rate. These apprehensions were removed by the speech of the noble Marquess; and he did not think that the charges of jobbing and an addition to the poor rates were well founded; for the noble Marquess had said, that the baths could not be established without the sanction of the Secretary of State. Another objection to this Bill was, that by the thirty-sixth clause there were to be establishments not only for the poorer but higher classes. He believed that there would always be a certain number of persons who would pay the higher rate, and that the effect of it would be to afford an additional security against any burden on the poor rates.

Bill read 2a.