Lords Sitting of 18 March 1845

MINUTES.
BILLS. Public.—1a. Customs (Export Duties).
Reported.—Property Tax.
Received the Royal Assent.—Consolidated Fund; Stamp Duties Assimilation; Constables (Scotland).
Private.—2a. Boileau's Divorce.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Duke of Buccleuch, Earl of Kinnoul, and Lord Brougham, from Presbytery of Edinburgh, and from several other places, for Improving the Condition of Schoolmasters (Scotland).—From Lamesley, for the Suppression of Intemperance.—From Province of Munster, for the Establishment of Provincial Colleges (Ireland).

EXPLOSIONS IN COAL MINES.
The Marquess of Londonderrysaid, that he was desirous of putting a question to the noble Duke near him (the Duke of Wellington). He wished to ask whether it would be convenient that he should now move for the Report of Mr. Faraday
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and Mr. Lyall, who had been sent down by the Government to report on the subject of the explosions which had unfortunately taken place in certain coal mines in the north of England some short time ago? Many rumours had been circulated detrimental to the character of the coalowners, and he wished for the production of this Report, as it would prove that those rumours were without foundation, and also the great attention and ability which were shown by the viewers employed in those collieries.
The Duke of Wellington: The Government having received an account of these misfortunes having occurred in one of the mines in the north of England, sent down two gentlemen of great science, who were directed to inquire and examine into the cause of this and similar misfortunes which had previously occurred, and they were also directed to make a Report on the subject. They made a Report, and that Report has since been communicated to the gentlemen interested—the coalowners of the north of England; and they, having considered the subject, have stated their opinions on the Report of the two scientific gentlemen; opinions suggested by their own knowledge and practical experience. These opinions have been communicated to the two scientific gentlemen, and the Government is desirous of wailing to hear the Report of these gentlemen upon the suggestions made by the coalowners before that document is made public. I agree with my noble Friend that it is desirable that these Papers should come before the public, and that they should be eventually placed on the Tables of both Houses of Parliament. Therefore, there can be no objection whatever to the production of this Paper at the proper time; but I think the noble Marquess will agree with me, and your Lordships will, that the information should be as complete as possible when given. Under these circumstances, I must suggest, to my noble Friend that it would be better if he postponed his Motion for the present.
The Marquess of Londonderrysaid, that nothing could be more satisfactory than the explanation which had been given by the noble Duke. He must thank the Government for having sent down these scientific gentlemen to inquire into the subject, for they had produced a Report which was most just and impartial, and

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which gave the greatest satisfaction to all the parties interested. He must also thank the Government for having taken off the tax on coal exported to foreign countries. That measure would be a great relief to the trade. He regretted that the pitmen still stood out, but they were urged to do so by persons who ought to know better. Designing demagogues had set these men against their masters, and they would have a great deal to answer for, if they could but see the misery and wretchedness which he had seen in that part of the country during the last six months.

SCOTCH BANKS.
The Earl of Roseberysaid, that in putting the question of which he had given notice, he should merely state those facts which were necessary to elucidate the question, and to justify him in seeking this information from Her Majesty's Ministers. In the Speech from the Throne, the attention of Parliament was directed to some change in the system of banking in Scotland and Ireland. Various interpretations had been given to that paragraph of Her Majesty's Speech; but this was certain, that the announcement itself, coupled with the sentiments expressed last Session by the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Treasury on the subject, had occasioned great anxiety to be felt throughout Scotland, not unmingled with some feelings of distrust and apprehension, as to any plan which might be proposed, altering the system of banking which had been so long and so successfully established in that country. He had hitherto refrained from asking for any information on the subject, from a sincere desire not to precipitate the discussion of this question, or in any degree to embarrass the Government; but he thought it would not be conceived unreasonable that one connected as he was with Scotland should be desirous of obtaining on this the last day previous to the adjournment for the Easter recess, some information from the Government with regard to the nature of this contemplated change, and when it was likely to be promulgated. He put this question not on behalf of the great chartered banks of Scotland, but on behalf of the people of Scotland, who had been accustomed to think that a great portion of their prosperity was attributable to their system of banking, and who thought also that great evils would ensue if any injudicious interference (and he believed any interference would
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be injudicious) with that system were attempted. The question which he wished to put was, whether the noble Duke was in a condition to state generally the nature of the plan which the Government intended to propose in reference to an alteration of the law on the subject of banking in Scotland? and if not whether he would have the goodness to state when the measure would be proposed for the consideration of Parliament?
The Duke of Wellington: My Lords, I am not at all surprised at the anxiety which is felt to obtain a knowledge of the intentions of Her Majesty's servants on the subject adverted to in the paragraph in the Speech from the Throne to which the noble Earl has referred. I am concerned that it is entirely out of my power to enter into details on that subject. A similar question was put to my right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury no later than last night, and his answer was that he could not at that moment state what the details of the plan were; but that he would take the earliest opportunity after the recess of detailing the whole plan to the House. I should think, even if I had a knowledge on this subject, which I certainly have not, that it would not be the most convenient mode of proceeding to enter into such details in this House previous to their being stated in the other House. As soon as the state of the business of the Session enables the right hon. Gentleman to bring forward this measure, it is his intention to do so. In the meantime, I beg to assure the noble Earl that there can be no risk of any danger such as he apprehends, from any measure which may be introduced by the Government.
The Earl of Mintosaid, that he did not entirely concur in the views which had been stated by his noble Friend (the Earl of Rosebery), for he did not see any reason why Scotland should be injured by being placed under the same restrictions which had been found to be useful in England.
The Earl of Roseberysaid, that he hoped the measure would be postponed so as to allow of full time for its consideration in Scotland before it passed into a law.
The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, that every exertion would be made to bring the measure forward at the earliest period.
House adjourned to Thursday, the 3rd of April.