§ On the Motion of Lord Campbell, the House went into Committee on this Bill.
§ The Earl of Ellenboroughsaid, that this was a very short Bill, but there was one part of it which he thought might be spared. There were two reasons given for one effect; and one of these portions might, in his opinion, with advantage be omitted from the Bill. He thought the fewer words that were introduced into an Act of Parliament, provided they were sufficiently intelligible, the better.
Lord Campbellsaid: My Lords, I think the noble Earl is mistaken, for it would not be enough simply to enact that there shall be no forfeiture of chattels causing death, or that deodands shall be abolished. At present there is a forfeiture of chattels causing death where there is no deodand, as in the case of murder and manslaughter; and there may be a deodand in the shape of a pecuniary mulct where there is no forfeiture. The prohibition to a coroner's jury to find a deodand may be necessary from the existing requisition that they shall declare forfeited whatever has caused death, although there may have been no negligence in the owner; and the additional words declaring such finding void may be useful to obviate the argument—fieri non debet, factum valet. I confess, my Lords, I am rather surprised at the objection, as I had thought my Bill a model of brevity. Effecting a great improvement of the law, it consists of one single clause, and the enacting part does not exceed three or four lines. Behold the Bill, my Lords, the length of which is complained of. [Here the noble Lord held up his Bill.] I am still more surprised, my Lords, at the quarter from which the objection comes. While the noble Earl was in the East, there appeared before the public certain proclamations, which were indeed chargeable with redundancy. [Lord Ellenborough: Not mine, I am sure.] 949 It was, indeed, doubted whether they were genuine productions, and many supposed that they had been fabricated in the name of the Governor General for the public amusement. But in this House they were treated as authentic; and to them the pruning knife might have been most advantageously applied. The noble and gallant Duke opposite never had a more difficult undertaking than to defend them, which he certainly performed with consummate courage and skill; but when be came to that passage, which he designated "a song of triumph," I am sure that even he must have inwardly quailed, and earnestly wished that the pruning-knife had been applied to it. [The Duke of Wellington laughed very heartily.] However, my Lords, it has been my great object for many years to introduce simplicity and brevity into law proceedings, and into the language of legislation; and if this Bill can be safely shortened, I shall be most happy. If the noble Earl will allow it to pass through the Committee in its present form, with his assistance, and that of my noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack, I shall consider what may be safely left out on the Report, although I hope there may not afterwards be reason to say—
Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.
§ The Earl of EllenboroughMy Lords, I am glad that the noble and learned Lord has referred to my conduct in India. I am here to answer him or any man, and now I should wish to hear said in my presence that which has been said in my absence.
Lord Campbellsaid: I did not mean to attack the measures of the noble Earl, or to raise any discussion on his policy, which I admit ought to be done—if at all—by a direct Motion. I confined myself to his style. I meant on this occasion to say nothing respecting his government of India. If he is contented that things should remain as they are, so am I.
§ The Earl of EllenboroughI beg to give the noble and learned Lord a piece of advice, which I believe was once given by Lord Chatham in the House of Commons to some hon. Member of that House who had chosen to arraign his conduct, which was this—that the next time he meant nothing he had better say nothing.
Lord BroughamI hope, my Lords, that this will go no further. My noble Friend, who was absent on former occasions, fays, as I know, that nothing would ever give him more satisfaction than to 950 hear himself openly attacked in his presence, for he is ready to defend himself; but I must add, as often as anything has been said in impeachment of his conduct, in his absence, he was most zealously and most anxiously defended by my noble Friend the gallant Duke; and zealously, though, God knows, not ably, but, I believe, successfully, by the individual who now addresses your Lordships.
§ The Earl of EllenboroughI know the whole amount of gratitude which I owe to the noble Duke on this subject, as I do on all others. But, my Lords, I cannot venture to speak on this subject.
§ Bill passed through Committee, and reported.