Lords Sitting of 21 February 1845

MINUTES.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Lord Brougham, from Edmund Byrne, Surgeon, for Amendment of Law relating to Coroners' Inquests.—By Lord Stanley, from Surgeons and Apothecaries of Ulverston and Lonsdale North of the Sands, in favour of Medical Reform.

SUGAR DUTIES.
Lord Monteaglemoved for a return of the amount of duty received in the three years previous to the equalization of the Sugar Duties in 1835 and 1836, and in the three years subsequent to that period. Up to that period there was a discriminating duty on the produce of East and West India sugars; and by the latter it was regarded as a privilege essential to their psosperity. It was his good fortune to abolish this discriminating duty; and though there were some complaints made as to the change, he was happy to find that many of those who at first condemned the measure afterwards warmly approved of it, and many of the West India proprietors actually embarked their capital in raising East India sugar. The Committee which sat on the subject reported,—
"It is highly gratifying to the Committee to remark how considerable has been the increased importation of East India sugar. The state of this branch of the trade for the three years antecedent and subsequent to the equalisation of these duties is exhibited in the following table:—

Cwt.

Duty.

1833

111,000

£1

12

0

1834

76,000

1835

100,000

1836

152,000

£1

4

0"

1837

296,000

1838

498,000

It had since increased much more in 1841, 1,065,000, and 1842, 935,000. The Committee to which he had referred broadly laid down the principle that there should be a perfect equality between sugars the produce of the East and West Indies. The Report stated,—
"It appears to the Committee that the general principles on which commercial regulations affecting the intercourse between the United Kingdom and the Colonial dependencies, and the mutual intercourse of those dependencies, should rest, should be that of perfect equality, subject to exception only where the permanent interest of the whole Empire, or the temporary circumstances of any part of our foreign possessions may seem to

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render such exceptions necessary or expedient; that no partial favour should grant to one colony any advantage over another, either in the Colonial ports, or in those of the United Kingdom. Colonial possessions scattered over the four quarters of the globe, and legislatively dependent on the acts of a distant Government, can only be maintained in peaceful and willing obedience by making strict justice and impartiality the sole guides of every legislative proceeding by which they may be affected."
If, after the experience we had had, any attempt was made to adopt a discriminating scale of duties between sugar the produce of the East and West Indies, it would not only be a departure from the principles of legislation we had hitherto observed, but it would be acting in entire disregard of the success of that experiment.
Lord Stanleysaid, that so far as the Papers which were moved for were concerned, there was no objection on the part of the Government to give to that or the other House of Parliament all the information in their power. He agreed that it was a fit time to require such information when Her Majesty's Government were proposing a great alteration in the Sugar Duties, and a great reduction of the duties on sugar the produce of our own Colonies, and of the free labour of foreign states. He would not have said one word more on the subject if his noble Friend had not seemed to infer that it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to recede from that principle of perfect equality of duty between different parts of Her Majesty's possessions in the East and West Indies, which had worked so well. The object of Her Majesty's Government, whatever the reduction of duty might be, was to adhere to the principle of entire equality of duty between similar sugars of the different possessions of the Crown. At the present time it was the more important that there should be no discouragement given to the growth of sugar in the East Indies, because it was most desirable that the consumption and the amount of duty should increase. If they excluded, as he hoped they would do, sugar the produce of slave labour, they ought not to throw any discouragement, but rather they ought to give every encouragement, to sugar produced within the dominions of the British Crown. He did not know whether he was regular in
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discussing this question when the measure itself was not before the House; and he would not have done so had it not been for the inference drawn by his noble Friend. The Government did mean to reduce the duties on sugar the produce of the East and the West Indies, and they did intend to apply the same quantity of reduction on the sugars produced in the East as in the West Indies. What they did propose was, to make a difference in the duty applying both to the East Indian and the West Indian sugars, affecting not only the quality of the sugar but the process it had undergone. Some sugar had undergone no process, whilst other had been subjected to many scientific processes; and happy was he to say that science was constantly introducing new processes, so that a different value was often given to the same article, even when it was the produce of the same Colony. The duty on Muscovado Sugar was now 25 s. 4d. per cwt., for his noble Friend would recollect the 5 per cent. added to the duty, and it was thought that the duty on this should be somewhat different from sugars of a higher class; that there should be a diminution of duty on the lowest, the poorest, and the least manufactured class of sugars, whether they were the produce of the East Indies or of the West; and the Government thus gave an increased advantage to the lowest class of consumers, by imposing a somewhat higher duty on the better class of sugars. He knew his noble Friend would say that sugars the produce of the East Indies were of this higher class; but when his noble Friend saw the proposal of Government—and it would be wise till then to reserve any comments—he would see that it was not intended to increase the duty on the East Indian sugars, but only to raise the duty on such sugars as had undergone a process not only to give a degree of whiteness but of fineness to the sugars, which would apply equally to the West Indies. To the Return moved for he had no objection.
Lord Monteaglewas certainly obliged to his noble Friend for the explanation he had given, especially as he admitted that thore should be an equality of duty. If it should turn out that the change would apply exclusively to that description of sugar which was produced in the East Indies, and which at the present time was subject only to the same duty as

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West India sugars, and that after the change it would be subjected to a relatively higher duty, the equalization would be more nominal than real, and the present state of the law would be preferable to the intended change.
Return agreed to.

LOSS OF NEWSPAPERS POSTED.
Lord Campbellsaid, since he had mentioned the subject, he had been informed that the grievance which had been complained of was generally felt; and that even the Prime Minister himself had been obliged to complain that his newspapers had not arrived regularly. By these irregularities many persons had been deprived of the information they desired. The Return he desired was of the number of applications which, during the period of the last twelve months, had been addressed to the authorities of the General Post Office, complaining of the miscarriage and loss of newspapers passing through the post-offices.
The Earl of Lonsdalesaid, the Government had no objection to the Motion; but he thought it should be stated that the Post Office authorities ought not to bear the whole blame of the loss of newspapers. There never was a set of officers more zealous in the discharge of their duties than those engaged in the Post Office; and the fault was not always with the Post Office. He wished, therefore, in justice to them, to make some addition to the Motion. He begged to move, that there be added to his noble Friend's Motion, a Return of all the newspapers lying in the Dead Letter Office, which had not reached their destination, either through misdirection, want of addresses, or other assignable causes. The number of these often amounted to 3000 or 4000 a week.
Lord Campbellaccepted very willingly the addition made to his Return.
The Earl of Ellenboroughsuggested, that before the Post Office was charged with neglect in not delivering newspapers, it would be well to ascertain that those papers had actually been put into the receiving boxes.
The Earl of Lonsdalethanked his noble Friend for his suggestion.
Motion agreed to.

NEW HOUSE OF LORDS.
Lord Wharncliffebegged to state with reference to a question on the subject, that it never was contemplated to have their Lordships'
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House ready for occupation this Session. At the beginning of the next Session he would venture to say it would be completed and fit for the accommodation of their Lordships.
House adjourned.