The Marquess of Normanbywished to ask whether these latter petitions could be received consistently with the Orders of the House. He believed it was not the practice of their Lordships' House to receive petitions on a measure yet pending before the other House. It was of little importance 459 which way the point was decided; but it was desirable to have a rule laid down upon it, as there were a great many petitions upon the subject. Having the misfortune to differ from the petitioners, he was the more anxious not to be supposed unwilling to present those intrusted to him; but he really had not brought them down, supposing it premature.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, there was no Order of the House; but the practice was, not to receive petitions against a particular Bill till it was before their Lordships. Petitions, however, against a principle, or generally against any measure of a certain description, might be presented.
The Marquess of Normanbyobserved, that the petitions from the Wesleyans were certainly against the measure introduced by Government in the other House.
The Earl of Shaftesbury (who was sitting as Speaker till the arrival of the Lord Chancellor)said, that a rule of the House forbad the presentation of petitions against a particular measure while it was under discussion in the other House of Parliament, on the principle that before it reached their Lordships' House the Bill might be very materially altered. The rule did not apply to petitions praying generally against "any further grant" to Maynooth, but only to those whose prayer was directed to the particular grant which the measure of the Government contemplated.
The Earl of Wicklowdid not wish the practice to be altered; but as this was a common subject, and there had been petitions every Session against any further grant to Maynooth, they ought still to be received, unless they made express reference to the Bill.
Lord Campbellremarked that, knowing nothing yet of that Bill, the House ought not to receive petitions against it.
Lord Stanleysaid, the petitions from the Wesleyans were all verbatim the same; but, though they referred to the Bill, their prayer was, not that the House would reject it, but would not consent to any increase of the endowment of Maynooth. These appeared to be admissible.
Lord Broughamsaid, that the words were these:—"Believing the proposal made by Her Majesty's Government for increased public support to the College of Maynooth to involve the whole question 460 of a national endowment of Popery, and regarding it as an important step towards the full establishment of the Romish Church in Ireland;" and then the prayer was, "that the House would not consent to any measure fraught with such pernicious consequences." Then here was another of their reasons:—"That they are convinced the doctrines of the Romish Church are opposed to the interests of society and the welfare of immortal souls; and that they regard any such support as calculated to bring down the displeasure of Almighty God upon this country." Such was their argument; he thought it most absurd and untenable—one of the most absurd and untenable he ever in all his existence heard; but the petitioners had a perfect right to hold that opinion, and to petition the House on this ground to reject, not any particular measure, but generally any measure fraught, as they held, with such consequences.
§ Subject at an end.