SANATORY CONDITION OF THE LOWER CLASSES. (Hansard, 11 June 1844)

The Marquess of Normanby

said, that before proceeding with the Order of the Day, he would take that opportunity to put the questions to his noble Friend, the Lord Privy Seal, of which he had given notice yesterday, relative to the promised Report on the Sanatory Condition of the Lower Classes. He had on several occasions called their Lordships' attention to this subject; but still its very great, indeed its paramount importance, would justify him, he conceived, in again bringing it forward. He should, therefore, in the first place, inquire of the noble Duke (Duke of Buccleuch) opposite when the Report of the Commissioners respecting the Sanatory Condition of the Lower Classes in the metropolis and other large towns was likely to be laid on the Table. He must also observe, that from the answer which he received from his noble Friend the last time he submitted this matter to the House, he was very doubtful whether that Report would be accompanied with any recommendations from the Commissioners for the adoption of immediate remedies to the evils which were admitted on all hands to exist in connection with this subject. He had put this question at the commencement of the present Session, and was informed by the noble Duke, that such a Report as he had alluded to was in progress, and that he hoped it would shortly, with all the necessary information, be laid before their Lordships. At a later period he repeated the question, and further, whether the Report would contain any recommendation of means calculated to re- 480 move the evils complained of? On that occasion the noble Duke accounted for the delay in the production of the Report, and founded his defence of it on the difficulty of dealing with the subject, and on the consideration of the expense which must necessarily attend extensive alterations in the existing system. He need not repeat what was then said by the noble Duke, but he must now contend that it was of the utmost importance that another year should not be allowed to pass over their heads without some effectual steps being taken to meet those evils which were perfectly well known to exist. A Report had been formerly presented on this subject, and he believed that all further evidence that had been adduced proved the melancholy accuracy of the statements contained in that Report. That Report dwelt strongly on the fearful loss of life which was caused by the want of proper drainage and ventilation in the abodes of the poor. It was calculated that a loss of 50,000 lives annually occurred in the metropolis and other large towns, occasioned by diseases which might be prevented by ordinary care, and the enforcement of well-considered sanatory regulations. With respect to the subject of expense which had been raised, that Report contained a calculation bearing directly on that very point. That calculation, it was true, referred only to one particular town, but the principle was of general application. In the evidence appended to the Report, Mr. Lewis, the minister of a large parish in Dundee, was asked a question as to the annual cost which was incurred in that town by fever cases from these causes? He said, in reply, that putting out of consideration the sacrifice of human life, and the loss that was occasioned by the destruction of man, regarding him as a mere machine, the annual cost for the town for the fever cases with which the poorer classes were afflicted was not less than 25,000l. Therefore the cost for this town alone, for the last four years, when the subject was first brought before Parliament, was not less than 100,000l. He would strongly urge those noble Lords who had not read the Reports already published to do so, for he could tell them that if they did so they would find proved to demonstration that the condition of the poorer classes residing in the great towns had been for some time past annually deteriorated by the want of the appliance of some of those remedies which he had so often recommended them to adopt. It was stated 481 on the authority of Dr. Arnott and Mr. Chadwick, that if reference were made to the state of the prisons when first examined by Mr. Howard, the description given of them was nothing in comparison to the state of some of the wynds in Glasgow and Edinburgh, and the cellars of Manchester and Liverpool, and to some districts in Leeds and some parts of the metropolis. In his opinion, with so much evidence, with so many facts before them, the delay of the Government, in endeavouring to remedy these evils, was wholly unnecessary. Much valuable information had been collected by the Commissioners on this subject, and every person who seriously viewed the subject must be satisfied that something ought to have been done before this. He thought he might add as a certainty, that all the reasons which had been advanced in support of delay might have been met and disposed of by the attentive exertions of well-informed and experienced persons within a quarter of the time that had been now consumed. They were in possession of all necessary information for legislating upon these evils, and for not acting upon this the Government were clearly responsible. He begged leave to ask another question. His noble Friend slated on a former occasion, with regard to the Buildings Regulation Bill, that although in the first instance it was intended to be confined to the metropolis, to see how it worked, and that if it was successful in the metropolis it should be extended to other towns, his noble Friend distinctly stated that he was not prepared to extend this Bill to other towns during the present Session, but that he would do so, most probably, next year. Now this Bill had been brought forward in the House of Commons between three and four months ago, and it had not been proceeded with. He would, therefore, ask whether this first specimen of legislation on this subject, which was only a trial, was to be proceeded with, and whether there were any hopes that this Bill would come up to that House in time to give any attention to it during this Session? His questions then were these—1st, When the Report on the Sanatory Condition of the Poor would be presented? 2nd, Whether it would contain any suggestions of a remedial nature, which could be submitted to the Legislature and carried into effect this year?—and 3rd, Whether the Metropolitan Buildings Bill was likely to come before their Lordships this Session?

The Duke of Buccleuch

said, no person 482 was more sensible than he was of the great evils with respect to the sanatory condition of the poor that existed in the metropolis and elsewhere; but he was equally sensible that it was more easy to discover the existence of these evils than to devise remedies which could be practically carried into effect. They ought not to act in a matter so beset with difficulties without great caution and deliberation. As an illustration of this, he would mention that a Private Bill had received the sanction of the Legislature for the improvement of a large town in 1842—he alluded to Leeds; but that act, which was intended to have done much, had turned out to be a mere dead letter. A most able report and survey of this town had been made by Captain Vetch, and, above all, as to an extended plan of sewerage. It had, however, been determined by the authorities there that a small portion of the town should have sewers immediately, and an attempt was made to carry this into effect; but this had been done in such an unfortunate manner, in consequence of the ignorance or carelessness of the persons employed in the execution of the work, not following the directions contained in that report and survey, and not paying due regard to the levels, that for a very considerable distance up some of the sewers the water flowed back, the drainage failed, and the money expended was thrown away. This showed the necessity of proceeding cautiously. With regard to the Report, he must observe that this was not a Parliamentary Commission, and it had not to report to either House of Parliament; but it was a Commission appointed by Her Majesty, to whom the Report would be made, and no doubt the document would be communicated to that House. The Report was in a state of forwardness—it was in point of fact at the present time under revision, but he could not fix a period within a few days when it would be ready for presentation. He must observe, also, that there were a great many details which it would be requisite to embody in the Appendix, which were not yet ready. He could not hold out to his noble Friend that there was much prospect this Session of bringing forward measures which could be carried, founded on the Reports of the Commissioners. There was no doubt, he believed, entertained as to any want of attention or anxiety on the part of either the Commissioners or the Government, to carry out remedial measures for the benefit of the 483 poorer classes of those large towns; but it should be recollected that it was a task of extreme difficulty to devise measures to meet these evils—measures which should be effectual not merely in appearance, but in reality. It was most difficult to estimate the amount of the expense that must be incurred, and how that expense was to be defrayed. It was also a matter which required great consideration as to the mode in which the provisions of a measure on the subject should be enforced, and as to the supervision under which the means of enforcing the regulations should be placed. The noble Marquess was aware that at present there were several General as well as Local Acts for improvement of large towns, under which little or nothing had been done. He believed that if they had been carried out properly, and as far as they might be, many of the present causes of complaint would not be found to exist. As to the miserable condition of dwellings in cellars, to which the noble Lord alluded, he would refer him to the town of Liverpool, with respect to which an Act had been passed which touched on the subject. It appeared that 22,000 of the poorer classes of that place resided in cellars, from which they would be ejected on the 1st of July, if the Local Act to which he had just alluded was carried into effect. Now, under this Local Act no provision had been made for the future residence of this large class of persons, and they might be turned out of their present abodes, with no roofs under which to place their heads. He mentioned this as an instance of the nature of the difficulties with which they had to contend. With respect to another question of the noble Marquess, it was not in his power to say whether, in the first Report that would be presented, he hoped, in a few days, any specific remedy would be pointed out to meet those evils. As to the Bill introduced into the other House by a noble Friend of his, as to Metropolitan Buildings, he should state that since it had been introduced, it had been extensively circulated amongst builders and other persons of experience on the subject, and many valuable suggestions had been received in consequence, and many of them had been adopted with the Bill, and it had been reprinted with them. He trusted that the Bill would pass during the present Session of Parliament.