§ Lord Wharncliffe, in moving that the House resolve itself into Committee on this Bill, stated that the object of the Bill was merely to continue, until next year, an Act that had been annually passed for the last ten or twelve years, and which had been of very great advantage in restraining Orange and other party processions in Ireland, and consequently, in preserving the peace of the country. The present Act would expire on the 1st of August, and it was now proposed to continue its operation, not until the same period in the next year, but till the 1st of June, in order that should any similar measure be then necessary for the peace of Ireland, Parliament might be brought to consider the subject, and legislate upon it.
The Earl of Wicklowsaid, that when, on a former occasion, understanding that this Bill was to be brought into the other House, he had put a question to his noble Friend (Lord Wharncliffe), in order that he might have an opportunity of stating his objections to the measure, his noble Friend complained that that course was irregular, and that he should wait until the Bill came up to their Lordships, when he might urge his objections, and move any Amendment he thought proper. He would now, however, confess, that he had adopted that course designedly—for he considered that if the opinions of Members of their Lordships' House were to 1454 have any effect on Bills in progress, more particularly at that late period of the Session, the most desirable course was to express those opinions either on putting a question or otherwise, in order that they might have that consideration to which they were entitled elsewhere. Now, with regard to the suggestion that he might move to amend the Bill, he found, when he looked at the Bill, as it had at length come before their Lordships—as he knew he should find—that it was impossible to move any Amendment of any kind, especially of the nature he had referred to on a former occasion, to a measure which merely continued an existing Act, and did not set forth specifically the provisions of the Act which it renewed. The object of the Act was to prevent certain party processions in Ireland, and was originally directed against the Protestant or Orange party, as it was termed, in that country: but at the same time it was so framed as to apply to all party processions partaking of a religious character. To come within its provisions, the procession must assume a religious character, but not merely that, it required also that those meetings, against which it was to operate, should be accompanied by arms, banners, music, &c. He believed it impossible to put down all processions accompanied by music; but he also thought—and this was, he believed, the general opinion in Ireland—that if a Procession Act was necessary at all, it should embrace all processions. It was certainly most unjust and most unconstitutional to pass a measure of this nature, directed against one particular class only. Their Lordships knew very well, that there had been meetings and assemblies in Ireland of quite as dangerous a character and tendency as any this Act was framed to prevent. They could not have forgotten those "monster" meetings, to which the attention of the Government had been most properly called in the course of last year, with a view to their suppression. He believed that not one of those great and alarming meetings had taken place, which had not been preceded by processions, and accompanied by arms, banners, and music. He was quite aware that many of these processions, by which those "monster" meetings had been preceded, were nominally innocent in their character—that many of them were temperance processions; but he knew also that those 1455 processions, and the objects for which they were got up, had been grossly perverted and made subservient to party and political purposes—purposes which had been denounced by Father Mathew, the author of the temperance movement in Ireland—and used by designing persons as the readiest means of producing that monster mischief by which the country had been disturbed. He would appeal to their Lordships—was it proper to call upon Parliament to renew an Act which was directed against one party only, and did not include those persons against whose acts the Government had been obliged to call the laws into force, and through whose instrumentality so mischievous an agitation in Ireland had been produced? The Government would better consult the wishes and the welfare of the Irish people by allowing the Act to expire; and should any similar measure be found necessary next Session, to frame one that should include all processions and all parties. But this Bill was most inconsistent even for the objects for which it was introduced. It was to expire in the month of June; while all the processions against which it was directed took place in the months of July and August. His noble Friend had said, that the Bill was made to expire in June, in order to force Parliament into considering the question, and framing some enactment before that period next year. But surely the Government were not so powerless in Parliament as to render such a course necessary. The Government had the power of framing and proposing to Parliament whatever measures the welfare of the country required, and sufficient influence generally to pass them; but if not, the provisions of this Bill would not aid them in that respect. The Bill would be looked upon by the Protestant party in Ireland as a gratuitous affront to them: they would say, as they had already said, that it was made and framed against them, while it was at the same time so framed that it would not interfere with their anniversary meetings and processions. He should move, as an Amendment, that the Bill be committed that day three months.
The Earl of Rodenwas extremely glad that the objection to this Bill had been brought forward so openly and so ably by his noble Friend, whose observations would have the more weight as coming from a neutral party. If the objection had originated with him it might be said 1456 that they came from a partisan; and he admitted that he was, and ever would be, a partisan in the cause of the Protestants of Ireland. But, being so much connected with the people of that country as a landlord and a magistrate, he trusted he should always act with the most perfect impartiality. He agreed in all that had fallen from his noble Friend. What had occurred in the north of Ireland? The perfectly peaceable demeanour of the Protestants there fully bore out all that his noble Friend had stated as to there being no necessity for this measure. If ever men were placed under temptation to commit a breach of the law, if ever men had inducements placed before them to break the law, the Protestants of Ireland were those men and he was convinced that this Bill would be felt by them as quite a gratuitous insult. Why, the petitions that were presented on the subject were not attended to, or why the measure was introduced, he could not conceive. He could not understand what was the object—he could not divine what was the purpose aimed at by the introduction of this measure; and he must be allowed to say, that the reason given by his noble Friend (Lord Wharncliffe) for this proceeding was no reason at all. It would not conciliate any party in Ireland. It could not be "a sop to Cerberus," for Cerberus was in chains. To him it looked like one of those "heavy blows" and "great discouragements" to Protestantism, which noble Lords opposite were so fond of dealing out to their poor Protestant fellow-subjects in Ireland when they were in power. His noble Friend (Lord Wicklow) had spoken of the great injustice of legislating against one class, while all others were left free. He perfectly agreed with his noble Friend in the justice and propriety of his observation. The bands of music of the temperance societies' had become perfect nuisances. They attended at all public meetings, whether political or otherwise, and no one, except those who lived in the different neighbourhoods which they visited, could form any adequate idea of the annoyance they occasioned. They often were found playing near the Church when Divine Service was being celebrated, and their discordant noises disturbed the pious and sober-minded in the performance of their religious duties. Many persons had made complaints, and had applied to the magis- 1457 trates to put an end to this nuisance, but it was not in their power, Those parties were suffered to parade, with banners and bands of music, to the great annoyance of the quiet and well-disposed, and there was no penal Act to prevent them for so doing. Such was the fact, whilst Protestants, if they assembled, were persecuted by penal statutes. Yes, if they met, not for the repeal of the Union—not to devise means for dismembering the empire, but for objects dear to every loyal man, such as to celebrate victories and events which had placed the House of Hanover on the Throne of these Realms—they were thus unworthily treated Such an unjust system must surely disgust every loyal man in the country, whether Protestant or Catholic. He was sorry to say that he thought the temperance processions were connected with political objects, for at the great repeal meetings which were so detrimental to the country last year, the bands of music which belonged exclusively to the temperance societies, constantly attended and marched at the head of bodies of the people to the meetings from different parts of the country, thereby identifying themselves with the object of Repeal. For these reasons, he protested against the Bill, and concurred in the Amendment of his noble Friend.
§ The Duke of WellingtonMy Lords, I think that my noble Friends who have just addressed your Lordships do not exactly recollect their own arguments when they describe this Bill as an insult to the people of Ireland, and as a measure of injustice. They say, whilst they call it unjust towards one party, that it is protested against by both. They say that it is an insult.
The Earl of WicklowI never said that it was intended as an insult. I said that it was received as such.
§ The Duke of WellingtonThe fact of the matter is this. There is an Act of Parliament which has existed for many years—which has existed with great benefit to the country particularly in the course of the last year, when, and really I do not believe I am speaking too highly, great apprehensions were entertained; and I think I, as well as my noble Friend near me, and all parties in the House, applauded the conduct of those persons who were the objects of the law which it is the intention of this Bill to continue; ap- 1458 plauded their quiet submission to the law, and their good conduct throughout all that, passed, and the provocation which they received; we applauded their conduct highly, which not only gave us great satisfaction, but a security that the peace in that country would be preserved. This we felt in consequence of the conduct of those parties, and from the powers which the existence of this law gave us to enable us to preserve the peace, at least as far as the processions of these parties were concerned. We have the fullest reliance on their loyalty and good disposition; but we feel that, it is a great object and a great advantage that we should have this law in force to enable us to preserve the peace, at least in that part of the country, and amongst that class of persons who were the objects of this law. But my noble Friends both say that there have been other processions with bands of music—with colours—nay, with fire arms, I was not aware of the general prevalence of armed men in these processions. There certainly may have been armed men; but I was not aware that there was any general prevalence of armed men at any of these processions, But the Government having duly considered what was going on in Ireland determined to put an end to these proceedings, and to bring those to trial who had been concerned in encouraging those processions, and the meetings of which those processions were the forerunners, and we see the consequences of those trials at the present moment—and, my Lords, I think that the Government may claim some credit for having performed their duty with respect to those processions and their consequences—the great meetings. We have now arrived at that state which enables us to see what will be the consequences upon the state of the peace in that country of those legal proceedings, and we see accordingly that there never was an instance in which the peace of the country was so well preserved as at the present moment, and that, in point of fact, throughout the circuits there have been but few trials of prisoners, and that in general the country is in a more peaceable state than it has been for a considerable number of years. Under these circumstances the Government is anxious to look forward to a period of peace in that country, and to be able to carry on the government of it without recourse being had to any extraordinary powers, 1459 We did not come to Parliament last year, even in the midst of these monster meetings, when accounts of them were received month after month, and sometimes week after week; we did not come to Parliament, but we persevered in endeavouring to put an end to them, and to put them down, by the ordinary course of law, and what we desire now as we desired then—is to govern that country as this country is governed, by the common process of the law. But we also desire, as this law was enacted ten or twelve years ago, and as it has been in course of being carried into execution more or less ever since, and as it has preserved the peace of the country so far as these particular processions are concerned—we desire also that this law, being in existence, should be continued for a limited period, that we may try the experiment whether the country can or not be governed without any of these measures. The noble Earl, who sits on the back Bench (the Earl of Wicklow) says, why not enact a law against all processions? [The Earl of Wicklow: Processions accompanied by arms.] Why, the Government desire no new powers. The law has been carried into execution, and the law will be carried into execution, and we wish to try the experiment of what the law can do. Parliament will meet again in due course of time, and it will then be seen whether it is necessary or not to have new powers, and that will be the time to consider whether any new law is necessary, and if any new law is necessary, whether or not this particular law ought to be renewed or continued? This is what my noble Friend near me endeavoured to explain to your Lordships, and I think that it is a justifiable mode of proceeding on the part of the Government of the country. We desire no new powers, we desire to govern the country by the existing laws; and this we desire also, that these laws which exist may be allowed to exist for a certain period of time, in order that the experiment may be fairly tried, whether the country can be governed in peace by means of the existing laws. No one has ever said a word in deterioration of the loyalty and good conduct of the Protestants of Ireland; but we desire to part with no power with which the Legislature has for many years entrusted the Government; and I say, when Parliament meets again, we shall have full opportunity to consider the whole subject. On these 1460 grounds, therefore, I hope your Lordships will now agree to go into Committee on this Bill.
The Marquess of Clanricardesaid, that although usually opposed to the Government, he felt bound to support them on this occasion. He quite agreed with the noble Duke opposite that the Government ought not to give up the power which the Legislature had so long entrusted to them. If the Bill were allowed to expire, the Government could not but feel responsible for any mischief that might ensue. He gathered from the speech of the noble Duke that he looked forward to better times in Ireland, but that expectation would not justify the Government in neglecting to renew this Bill. The noble Duke spoke also of the present tranquillity of Ireland, but he was afraid that he could not agree with him as to the causes which had produced it. He trusted, however, that it would long continue.
§ Lord Wharncliffesaid, he must assure his noble Friends (the Earls of Wicklow and Roden) that nothing could be further from his thoughts than to offer an insult, or to do any injury to the Protestants of the north of Ireland, whose conduct had been most praiseworthy, and marked by loyalty and good order. It was certain that the law did not apply to the temperance and monster processions of last year. But they were to recollect that they had to deal with a man who boasted that he could drive a coach and four through an Act of Parliament, and who had contrived to keep those meetings within the verge of the law. Indeed, no Act could be framed effectually to extend this Bill to such meetings without preventing the people of Ireland from holding almost any meeting whatever.
§ Amendment negatived.
§ Bill passed through Committee, and reported.