Lords Sitting of 26 July 1844

MINUTES.
BILLS. Public.—1a. Ecclesiastical Jurisdictions; Joint Stock Companies Registration and Regulation; Railways; Clerk of the Crown in Chancery; Poor Law Amendment; Joint Stock Banks Regulation; Turnpike Trusts (South Wales); Grand Jury Presentments (Dublin); Transfer of Licenses (Post Horses).
2a. Land Tax Commissioners Names; Three-and-a-Half per Cents. Dissentients.
Reported.—Party Processions (Ireland); Debtors and Creditors.
3a. and passed: — Insolvent Debtors Act Amendment; Trafalgar Square; Farm Buildings; Aliens.
Private. — Reported. — Kingston-upon-Hull Docks; Ayr Bridge; Monkland Railways; London and Croydon Railway.
3a. and passed:—Rochdale Improvement; Ventnor Improvement; Gaspé Fishery and Coal Mining Company; Lord Lovat's Estate; Sir George Gervis's (or Pemberton's) Estate; Bishop of Down, Connor, and Dromore's Estate.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Rowland Goldhawk, of Hazel Hall, Surrey, for Alteration of Law relating to Small Tenements.—From Chester, for the Establishment of Local Courts. — From Physicians and Surgeons of Shoreditch, and Clerkenwell, in favour of Measures for improving the Sanatory Condition of the People.

PARTY PROCESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL.
Lord Wharncliffe, in moving that the House resolve itself into Committee on this Bill, stated that the object of the Bill was merely to continue, until next year, an Act that had been annually passed for the last ten or twelve years, and which had been of very great advantage in restraining Orange and other party processions in Ireland, and consequently, in preserving the peace of the country. The present Act would expire on the 1st of August, and it was now proposed to continue its operation, not until the same period in the next year, but till the 1st of June, in order that should any similar measure be then necessary for the peace of Ireland, Parliament might be brought to consider the subject, and legislate upon it.
The Earl of Wicklowsaid, that when, on a former occasion, understanding that this Bill was to be brought into the other House, he had put a question to his noble Friend (Lord Wharncliffe), in order that he might have an opportunity of stating his objections to the measure, his noble Friend complained that that course was irregular, and that he should wait until the Bill came up to their Lordships, when he might urge his objections, and move any Amendment he thought proper. He would now, however, confess, that he had adopted that course designedly—for he considered that if the opinions of Members of their Lordships' House were to
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have any effect on Bills in progress, more particularly at that late period of the Session, the most desirable course was to express those opinions either on putting a question or otherwise, in order that they might have that consideration to which they were entitled elsewhere. Now, with regard to the suggestion that he might move to amend the Bill, he found, when he looked at the Bill, as it had at length come before their Lordships—as he knew he should find—that it was impossible to move any Amendment of any kind, especially of the nature he had referred to on a former occasion, to a measure which merely continued an existing Act, and did not set forth specifically the provisions of the Act which it renewed. The object of the Act was to prevent certain party processions in Ireland, and was originally directed against the Protestant or Orange party, as it was termed, in that country: but at the same time it was so framed as to apply to all party processions partaking of a religious character. To come within its provisions, the procession must assume a religious character, but not merely that, it required also that those meetings, against which it was to operate, should be accompanied by arms, banners, music, &c. He believed it impossible to put down all processions accompanied by music; but he also thought—and this was, he believed, the general opinion in Ireland—that if a Procession Act was necessary at all, it should embrace all processions. It was certainly most unjust and most unconstitutional to pass a measure of this nature, directed against one particular class only. Their Lordships knew very well, that there had been meetings and assemblies in Ireland of quite as dangerous a character and tendency as any this Act was framed to prevent. They could not have forgotten those "monster" meetings, to which the attention of the Government had been most properly called in the course of last year, with a view to their suppression. He believed that not one of those great and alarming meetings had taken place, which had not been preceded by processions, and accompanied by arms, banners, and music. He was quite aware that many of these processions, by which those "monster" meetings had been preceded, were nominally innocent in their character—that many of them were temperance processions; but he knew also that those

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processions, and the objects for which they were got up, had been grossly perverted and made subservient to party and political purposes—purposes which had been denounced by Father Mathew, the author of the temperance movement in Ireland—and used by designing persons as the readiest means of producing that monster mischief by which the country had been disturbed. He would appeal to their Lordships—was it proper to call upon Parliament to renew an Act which was directed against one party only, and did not include those persons against whose acts the Government had been obliged to call the laws into force, and through whose instrumentality so mischievous an agitation in Ireland had been produced? The Government would better consult the wishes and the welfare of the Irish people by allowing the Act to expire; and should any similar measure be found necessary next Session, to frame one that should include all processions and all parties. But this Bill was most inconsistent even for the objects for which it was introduced. It was to expire in the month of June; while all the processions against which it was directed took place in the months of July and August. His noble Friend had said, that the Bill was made to expire in June, in order to force Parliament into considering the question, and framing some enactment before that period next year. But surely the Government were not so powerless in Parliament as to render such a course necessary. The Government had the power of framing and proposing to Parliament whatever measures the welfare of the country required, and sufficient influence generally to pass them; but if not, the provisions of this Bill would not aid them in that respect. The Bill would be looked upon by the Protestant party in Ireland as a gratuitous affront to them: they would say, as they had already said, that it was made and framed against them, while it was at the same time so framed that it would not interfere with their anniversary meetings and processions. He should move, as an Amendment, that the Bill be committed that day three months.
The Earl of Rodenwas extremely glad that the objection to this Bill had been brought forward so openly and so ably by his noble Friend, whose observations would have the more weight as coming from a neutral party. If the objection had originated with him it might be said
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that they came from a partisan; and he admitted that he was, and ever would be, a partisan in the cause of the Protestants of Ireland. But, being so much connected with the people of that country as a landlord and a magistrate, he trusted he should always act with the most perfect impartiality. He agreed in all that had fallen from his noble Friend. What had occurred in the north of Ireland? The perfectly peaceable demeanour of the Protestants there fully bore out all that his noble Friend had stated as to there being no necessity for this measure. If ever men were placed under temptation to commit a breach of the law, if ever men had inducements placed before them to break the law, the Protestants of Ireland were those men and he was convinced that this Bill would be felt by them as quite a gratuitous insult. Why, the petitions that were presented on the subject were not attended to, or why the measure was introduced, he could not conceive. He could not understand what was the object—he could not divine what was the purpose aimed at by the introduction of this measure; and he must be allowed to say, that the reason given by his noble Friend (Lord Wharncliffe) for this proceeding was no reason at all. It would not conciliate any party in Ireland. It could not be "a sop to Cerberus," for Cerberus was in chains. To him it looked like one of those "heavy blows" and "great discouragements" to Protestantism, which noble Lords opposite were so fond of dealing out to their poor Protestant fellow-subjects in Ireland when they were in power. His noble Friend (Lord Wicklow) had spoken of the great injustice of legislating against one class, while all others were left free. He perfectly agreed with his noble Friend in the justice and propriety of his observation. The bands of music of the temperance societies' had become perfect nuisances. They attended at all public meetings, whether political or otherwise, and no one, except those who lived in the different neighbourhoods which they visited, could form any adequate idea of the annoyance they occasioned. They often were found playing near the Church when Divine Service was being celebrated, and their discordant noises disturbed the pious and sober-minded in the performance of their religious duties. Many persons had made complaints, and had applied to the magis-

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trates to put an end to this nuisance, but it was not in their power, Those parties were suffered to parade, with banners and bands of music, to the great annoyance of the quiet and well-disposed, and there was no penal Act to prevent them for so doing. Such was the fact, whilst Protestants, if they assembled, were persecuted by penal statutes. Yes, if they met, not for the repeal of the Union—not to devise means for dismembering the empire, but for objects dear to every loyal man, such as to celebrate victories and events which had placed the House of Hanover on the Throne of these Realms—they were thus unworthily treated Such an unjust system must surely disgust every loyal man in the country, whether Protestant or Catholic. He was sorry to say that he thought the temperance processions were connected with political objects, for at the great repeal meetings which were so detrimental to the country last year, the bands of music which belonged exclusively to the temperance societies, constantly attended and marched at the head of bodies of the people to the meetings from different parts of the country, thereby identifying themselves with the object of Repeal. For these reasons, he protested against the Bill, and concurred in the Amendment of his noble Friend.
The Duke of Wellington: My Lords, I think that my noble Friends who have just addressed your Lordships do not exactly recollect their own arguments when they describe this Bill as an insult to the people of Ireland, and as a measure of injustice. They say, whilst they call it unjust towards one party, that it is protested against by both. They say that it is an insult.
The Earl of Wicklow: I never said that it was intended as an insult. I said that it was received as such.
The Duke of Wellington: The fact of the matter is this. There is an Act of Parliament which has existed for many years—which has existed with great benefit to the country particularly in the course of the last year, when, and really I do not believe I am speaking too highly, great apprehensions were entertained; and I think I, as well as my noble Friend near me, and all parties in the House, applauded the conduct of those persons who were the objects of the law which it is the intention of this Bill to continue; ap-
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plauded their quiet submission to the law, and their good conduct throughout all that, passed, and the provocation which they received; we applauded their conduct highly, which not only gave us great satisfaction, but a security that the peace in that country would be preserved. This we felt in consequence of the conduct of those parties, and from the powers which the existence of this law gave us to enable us to preserve the peace, at least as far as the processions of these parties were concerned. We have the fullest reliance on their loyalty and good disposition; but we feel that, it is a great object and a great advantage that we should have this law in force to enable us to preserve the peace, at least in that part of the country, and amongst that class of persons who were the objects of this law. But my noble Friends both say that there have been other processions with bands of music—with colours—nay, with fire arms, I was not aware of the general prevalence of armed men in these processions. There certainly may have been armed men; but I was not aware that there was any general prevalence of armed men at any of these processions, But the Government having duly considered what was going on in Ireland determined to put an end to these proceedings, and to bring those to trial who had been concerned in encouraging those processions, and the meetings of which those processions were the forerunners, and we see the consequences of those trials at the present moment—and, my Lords, I think that the Government may claim some credit for having performed their duty with respect to those processions and their consequences—the great meetings. We have now arrived at that state which enables us to see what will be the consequences upon the state of the peace in that country of those legal proceedings, and we see accordingly that there never was an instance in which the peace of the country was so well preserved as at the present moment, and that, in point of fact, throughout the circuits there have been but few trials of prisoners, and that in general the country is in a more peaceable state than it has been for a considerable number of years. Under these circumstances the Government is anxious to look forward to a period of peace in that country, and to be able to carry on the government of it without recourse being had to any extraordinary powers,

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We did not come to Parliament last year, even in the midst of these monster meetings, when accounts of them were received month after month, and sometimes week after week; we did not come to Parliament, but we persevered in endeavouring to put an end to them, and to put them down, by the ordinary course of law, and what we desire now as we desired then—is to govern that country as this country is governed, by the common process of the law. But we also desire, as this law was enacted ten or twelve years ago, and as it has been in course of being carried into execution more or less ever since, and as it has preserved the peace of the country so far as these particular processions are concerned—we desire also that this law, being in existence, should be continued for a limited period, that we may try the experiment whether the country can or not be governed without any of these measures. The noble Earl, who sits on the back Bench (the Earl of Wicklow) says, why not enact a law against all processions? [The Earl of Wicklow: Processions accompanied by arms.] Why, the Government desire no new powers. The law has been carried into execution, and the law will be carried into execution, and we wish to try the experiment of what the law can do. Parliament will meet again in due course of time, and it will then be seen whether it is necessary or not to have new powers, and that will be the time to consider whether any new law is necessary, and if any new law is necessary, whether or not this particular law ought to be renewed or continued? This is what my noble Friend near me endeavoured to explain to your Lordships, and I think that it is a justifiable mode of proceeding on the part of the Government of the country. We desire no new powers, we desire to govern the country by the existing laws; and this we desire also, that these laws which exist may be allowed to exist for a certain period of time, in order that the experiment may be fairly tried, whether the country can be governed in peace by means of the existing laws. No one has ever said a word in deterioration of the loyalty and good conduct of the Protestants of Ireland; but we desire to part with no power with which the Legislature has for many years entrusted the Government; and I say, when Parliament meets again, we shall have full opportunity to consider the whole subject. On these
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grounds, therefore, I hope your Lordships will now agree to go into Committee on this Bill.
The Marquess of Clanricardesaid, that although usually opposed to the Government, he felt bound to support them on this occasion. He quite agreed with the noble Duke opposite that the Government ought not to give up the power which the Legislature had so long entrusted to them. If the Bill were allowed to expire, the Government could not but feel responsible for any mischief that might ensue. He gathered from the speech of the noble Duke that he looked forward to better times in Ireland, but that expectation would not justify the Government in neglecting to renew this Bill. The noble Duke spoke also of the present tranquillity of Ireland, but he was afraid that he could not agree with him as to the causes which had produced it. He trusted, however, that it would long continue.
Lord Wharncliffesaid, he must assure his noble Friends (the Earls of Wicklow and Roden) that nothing could be further from his thoughts than to offer an insult, or to do any injury to the Protestants of the north of Ireland, whose conduct had been most praiseworthy, and marked by loyalty and good order. It was certain that the law did not apply to the temperance and monster processions of last year. But they were to recollect that they had to deal with a man who boasted that he could drive a coach and four through an Act of Parliament, and who had contrived to keep those meetings within the verge of the law. Indeed, no Act could be framed effectually to extend this Bill to such meetings without preventing the people of Ireland from holding almost any meeting whatever.
Amendment negatived.
Bill passed through Committee, and reported.

SANATORY CONDITION OF THE PEOPLE.
The Marquess of Normanby: I have now to call your Lordships' attention to a subject, in my opinion, of unequalled importance. It is true, that I do so when the Session has almost ran its weary length. It is not for me, on this occasion, to criticise the comparative value of its other labours; but I must remind you that at the very earliest moment, when the forms of the House permitted, after the meeting of Parliament, I put a question

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to my noble Friend opposite (the Duke of Buccleugh), the Chairman of a Commission appointed by the Government to inquire into this subject, whether we might expect any remedial measures during the present Session? On various occasions, during the progress of public business, I have with diminishing hopes repeated the same question, and I own that it is now with deep disappointment I feel myself obliged formally to bring the subject before you, with a view, at least, to extract a pledge from this House, that here these evils shall not another year be treated with continual neglect. The subject itself is so comprehensive in character, branching into so many details, that however much on former occasions I have felt myself enabled, from the interest naturally excited, to keep your attention alive,—I should fear that I might exhaust your patience if I did not confine myself as much as possible to the leading practical points—which are these:—whether the evils I have formerly depicted are still existing without mitigation, and whether—if they cannot, and will not be cured without legislative interference—the question is not, rather why this was not applied before, than why it should be applied now? I must revert for a few moments to the state of things as described when I first brought this subject to your notice, now nearly four years ago. I then proved to you, that there had been in the course of the last forty years a greater internal migration from one part of the country to the other, than had ever before taken place in any civilized society. Since the commencement of the present century the proportions of agricultural and manufacturing population have been exactly reversed. At the commencement of that period the agricultural population was to the manufacturing as two to one, now the latter is to the former in the same proportion of two to one. With this there has been a concurrent increase of national wealth; but there has been no addition to the comforts of the people—no provision for guarding their health—no care Co raise their condition. Look, for instance, to the town of Manchester and its neighbourhood, not cited invidiously, but named naturally as proudly boasting to be the emporium of new-made wealth. It has also become the seat of disease, and the spirit of health has winged its way to those comparative solitudes, which the most enterprising portion of the population had
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left. This was not always so; this same locality was formerly famous for its longevity, In a calculation which I cited in a former speech, upon the authority of Sir Gilbert Blane; the deaths in Manchester were stated at the beginning of the century to be one in fifty-eight, as considerably below the national average. In 1811, he mentions them as only one in seventy-four, which seems so extraordinarily low, as to make one believe there must have been some mistake; but it shows that at any rate the fact must have been remarkable on the favourable side. It is a sad truth, that the mortality there now is about one in twenty-eight. I have upon other occasions alluded to a fact, since stated in Mr. Chadwick's Report, that 50,000 persons die annually from diseases which might be prevented by proper sanatory regulations. This was a fact, which made a very general impression, not only from its startling character, but from its accessible position, being stated in the third or fourth page of that voluminous Report, which most, valuable as it was, I fear, shared the fate of many of their laborious enquiries, stretching to too great a length to be willingly mastered by the general reader. I can, however, state from my own experience, that there is hardly a page in it which does not contain something of which no public man ought to be wilfully ignorant. It was said, though by those who only heard the result stated, that 50,000 were thus swept away annually—that faith could not always be placed upon calculations founded on statistics; but this was no speculative deduction, these were the results derived from the Returns of the medical officers actually attending the parties thus afflicted. But since then this statement has been amply confirmed. The Commission appointed last year, selected fifty towns, which some of the Commissioners personally visited, and to which they also sent queries on particular points. In the Appendix to the Report which I hold in my hands, it is stated, that in those towns the deaths in three years from fever and contagious disorders were 63,000, or 21,000 annually; but the population in those towns is now 2,051,799, if we take the population of the Metropolis and its suburbs at 1,800,000, that would makeup nearly the 40,000 annual deaths; and we have, therefore, in order to verify Mr. Chadwick's estimate, only to distribute the other 10,000 deaths amongst the other 12,000,000

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of the population—or in other words to suppose that three-fourths of the population may at least contain one-fifth of the number of deaths. Is it not much more likely therefore, that this Report from the Poor Law Commission, for which we are indebted to Mr. Chadwick, has but inadequately called our attention to the extent of the evil, than that it is guilty of any exaggeration. Let it always be remembered too, that not only Scotland but unhappy Ireland are left out of these calculations—in both the evil exists in at least as great an extent, and to both the remedy must be applied. I am not exactly aware why these fifty towns were selected by the Commissioners—probably because in them there may have been a greater proportionate increase. The general increase since 1801 has been in the proportion of seven to four—in these fifty towns it has been as five to two. And why did these towns increase in this degree? Because money was there to be made by the application of capital, and labour was therefore tempted from other quarters—and wealth has been made and capital has been doubled, and this because with enterprise there has been economy in all things but one—of human life there has been a constant waste; sinful because unnecessary. If you had the answers from almost every one of the fifty towns to the queries sent by the Commissioners, you would see there has been a total absense of all proper precautions. And can you expect the victims of this state of things to help themselves unless you interpose? They remove from their own neighbourhood because they expect better wages. Grant that in good times they succeed in obtaining higher nominal wages, who in too many cases benefit by the difference? why the owners of those disgraceful dens, which are a necessity to the labourer, who must live within a certain distance of his work: hence the combined evils of overcrowding and extortion; and, in too many instances, the emigrant from the rural district, finds that he has to add the cost of certain disease to the rent of the wretched room, already three times the amount of that of the gardened cottage he has left. Again I ask is this necessary? Mr. Austin states in his evidence before the Commission, that for the existing rents he could undertake to raise new buildings, returning 10 per cent. on the speculation, with perfect drainage, self-acting water-closet, water
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laid on to each floor, and an annual supply secured. And the cost of all this calculated to include the ground rent. If this is so, to what extortion must all those be helplessly exposed who are doomed to the dwellings I have lately visited: and with such evidence, why is there any delay in applying an adequate remedy? Can there be any doubt that all these evils now exist without the slightest mitigation? I have within the last few days convinced myself of the painful fact by occular demonstration. I have also availed myself of the more general means of information on these points of a friend of mine, a gentleman whose name is already known in connexion with these subjects, as applying the powers of an acute mind, enlightened by science, with constant devotion to the purposes of active benevolence—I mean Dr. Southwood Smith. From a mass of most interesting information furnished by him, in connexion with his experience at the London Fever Hospital, I shall trouble your Lordships with two cases, as bearing directly upon the question, whether legislative interference is necessary; but I should premise that I gather from him, that at no period was the general character of the fever more malignant than it has been within the last year.
"10. From No.24 Crown Place, Soho, nine; that is, two, three, and four, form as many different families residing in this filthy den. The following remarkable fact may be mentioned in connection with this house. About five or six weeks before the admission of the nine individuals just mentioned three persons had been sent to the hospital from this same house labouring under fever. For want of room in the hospital no more could be admitted at that time although it was stated that several others were ill of the disease. Of these some were sent to the St. Giles's Workhouse, and others it is believed to the Middlesex Hospital. The house was then shut up. After the house had remained shut up for about a fortnight the landlord without adopting any cleansing or purifying measures whatever, let the house to some other tenants among whom were the unfortunate creatures (nine) received into the hospital on this second occasion of the breaking out of fever in this pest house. It was now again shut up, but this time the parish officers whose attention was directed to the matter, thoroughly cleansed, lime-whited, and purified the house, as well as the adjoining tenements; since which no case of fever, it is believed, has occurred in this place; at all events there has been no application for the admission of any patient into the fever hospital."
"11. In Friday-street, Cheapside, there is a

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small court, called Star-court, three houses forming the court. From the house No, 2, no less than ten cases of fever were one after another admitted into the hospital; in fact every inmate of this house was attacked with fever, and some of the inhabitants of the two adjoining houses were also seized with this malady. All the sick were removed and the houses and court were thoroughly cleansed and the walls lime-whited. No cases of fever occurred for some time afterwards. At length, however, the disease again broke out in a very severe form, and the sick, as before were immediately removed. The court generally, and the houses in particular, underwent a careful inspection, both appeared tolerably clean; yet there was always, but move especially after a shower of rain, a most intolerable stench in the court, the source of which could not for some time be detected. At last however through the perseverance of the parish officers it was discovered that the contents of a filthy privy belonging to one of the neighbouring houses were constantly escaping and that they had infiltrated into the stratum of earth immediately under the pavement. This privy was thoroughly repaired, and the pavement of the court was relaid; this change excepted, all the other circumstances of this locality, such as the number of inhabitants to each house, and the inhabitants being of the same class, as before; yet, since this change no case of fever has occurred.
If such things are, then arises the question what has the Government done to remove them? That they have done nothing one can certainly not say with this voluminous Report in one's hand. But the first question arises whether such a Commission as that from which this Report emanates, should now have been appointed. There can be no question that if appointed at all, it ought to have been so a twelvemonth sooner. In June, 1842, was presented Mr. Chadwick's Sanatory Report; one should have thought that by that was sufficiently indicated the general principle on which a remedy should be applied. The causes and the extent of the evil were made clear enough. But at any rate, the last course one should have expected from any Government receiving such a Report was a twelvemonth's inaction! Every twelvemonth—the Report told them—cost 50,000 lives. In June 1843, however, this Commission was appointed. I think a better course would have been that Government should have on their own responsibility determined the general principles on which they meant to legislate on these subjects, and then taken authority from Parliament to appoint a Commission of practical men to work out, the details both
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with reference to drainage and buildings. Some central superintending authority will have to be created, referring, if necessary, to the Executive Government, but having the same sort of powers with reference to local bodies entrusted with the execution of the details of their measures, that the Poor Law Commissioners have with the Boards of Guardians. However, after the delay of which I complain a different course was adopted, and this Commission was appointed. That there is much that is valuable in this their first Report, I have not the slightest inclination to deny. I think it is overloaded with much as to cause and extent which was unnecessary, except for new men, who if they required this information, should not have been appointed on this Commission. I think, also, it is overloaded with scientific details, which would have been much more satisfactory if they had come from a Commission which was acting as well as enquiring. They conclude with saying they hope to have something to propose "within as short a period as may be compatible with the consideration due to so important a subject." Now this strikes me as one of those subjects on which there has already been too much consideration and too little action. They then state "to this end we are continuing our unremitting exertions." Unremitting exertions! we can only judge of promises for the future by performances in the past. I find by the marginal notes to the evidence reported, that this Commission has sat only eight or twenty days in the last twelvemonth. My noble Friend, (the Duke of Buccleugh) interrupts me with the assurance that they have sat on other days when they have not taken evidence. I am glad to hear it. Of course I can know nothing but what is here reported to Parliament, but at any rate there appears to have been an interval of six months in their sittings. Now do not let me be misunderstood. I am perfectly aware that it would be impossible for a person in my noble Friend's position, with his immense possessions, and the special claim that those connected with them have upon his attention, to give up all his time to this subject even if, from his political position, he had not other public duties. But then I say, that though it is no doubt a great advantage that a person of his station and character should be at the head of this Commission, communicat-

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ing directly with the Executive Government, yet that it is desirable he should delegate to others many of its duties, as if the necessity for his presence causes all this delay, his connection with the Commission may be purchased too dearly, zealous as I know him to be in the good cause. If there is any truth in the estimates of annual mortality occasioned by these causes, every day's delay costs the lives of 135 or 136 persons. I have had, of course, some difficulty in the few days which have elapsed since the presentation of this Report, to master the whole of the evidence with its Appendix, but I think I have possessed myself of all the main facts here stated, and I have endeavoured to do so in a way that may enable me to illustrate by quotations from the evidence itself, that the question is in a state for immediate legislation, and that it ought to have been accompanied by a very different Report from this, which I cannot but pronounce as tame, vague, and unsatisfactory. Knowing how unwilling your Lordships are to listen to the reading of long documents, I shall as far as possible state from memory the facts as detailed in the evidence which bear out this conclusion — instead of asking your attention to long extracts. The most striking fact is that stated by Mr. Hawksley with respect to the supply of water for the town of Nottingham. Mr. Hawksley is connected with the Trent Waterworks, and his testimony is founded on experience: he says, that at present, within that borough 5,000 houses are supplied with water at a weekly cost of one penny each, formerly the inhabitants used to purchase water at a farthing a bucket, and a halfpenny if fetched from a distance. In general it was sold at three gallons one farthing; now 76,000 gallons are sold for 1l. or 79 gallons for a farthing. Mr. Hawksley also states that half the expence of laying water on is saved by constant service; not in this instance what is called high pressure, but by the pipes always being kept full. Mr. Hawksley seems to answer in the most satisfactory manner any question as to details, and any objection which is started, and one certainly rises from the perusal of his evidence, with the feeling, why is not all this already put in practice elsewhere? The whole question of Sanatory Regulation seems to turn upon the treatment of those two elements, air and water,
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both equally necessary to the healthful course of human existence, both equally necessary in their external influence on our frame, and in their internal use: one the primary ingredient in all human nutriment, the other the life spring of our lungs; and yet to apply them in perfection to the several purposes, they require precisely opposite treatment. Leave to the air its free and unrestrained course—put no artificial impediments upon its buoyant natural action, but on the other hand, guide and direct, and devise, on scientific principles, and by mechanical aid, the course of water, and by such means and in such proportion will you mitigate those ills which flesh is heir to. I say that I consider these measures as most purifying, because I verily believe that there is no other industrious population in the world suffering so much misery and degradation as large masses of our fellow countrymen. In any estimate of this relative suffering, I take into consideration the hardships of our climate. I staled that I have within the last few days again visited many of the worst districts at the eastern end of this metropolis. There had not been the slightest substantial change in their condition, but the late unusually fine weather had brought a temporary mitigation of their sufferings. The summer's sun could make his beneficent influence felt even in the most confined court, the crowded inhabitants of which could for a time exchange the canopy of heaven for their own stifling roof. But on the other hand I am obliged to remember the negro huts in the West Indies, many hundreds of which I have visited in other days, and I feel bound to admit, that before the Emancipation Act, the greatest outcry would have been raised against any proprietor who would have lodged his slaves in such residences as those I have lately seen within a walk of your Lordships' House. In the former Report, as well as in this, the fact is fully stated and confirmed, that the working classes would make any sacrifice to have their residences within a certain district of their place of work: amongst other witnesses I would refer to Mr. Wilson, of Macclesfield's, evidence in the Sanatary Report on this head. It is therefore, a mistake to say that the poor are free agents in this respect: the fact is, that this necessity on the part of the poor gives the proprietor of these loathsome dens a command of the most he can

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by any means in his power, extort from his tenants; and the other inhabitants of the district suffer by that also being absorbed in rent, which should go in rates. I am unwilling to trespass unnecessarily upon your patience, but I am aware of the impression which is always made by the viva voce testimony of an eye witness, and therefore, I cannot abstain from mentioning a few circumstances which have come under my own observation, when within the last few days I requested some of those active and useful members of society—the medical attendants and relieving officers of the districts of Spitalfields, Whitechapel, Bethnal Green, and their neighbourhoods—to accompany me to some of the worst of those localities, where the sanatory condition of the inhabitants was the lowest. I must mention in some detail as it seemed to me to furnish an epitome of all those evils, against which I wish to persuade your Lordships, at least to attempt, a remedy. In Turville place, Turville Street, there was not a house in which fever had not raged. In one room six weeks since, there had lived a man, his wife, and five children; at that time the husband was seized with the fever the natural consequence of dwelling where he did; four weeks since the wife was confined with twins, and the husband died. The water had been two years since cut off by the company from the whole of this court in consequence of a quarrel as to payment between the two landladies who owned the houses; and during all this sickness, neither these nor any other of the wretched inhabitants of the court had any water, except what the children begged and fetched, a distance of a quarter of a mile from Shoreditch. There was not a sewer within a quarter of a mile; and there was only one privy for all the houses in the court. This family had paid 1s. 6d. a-week for rent. In the opposite house there was a room on the ground-floor not much larger than the table at which I am now standing—almost all the flooring was decayed and broken, and the tenants had in vain asked to have it repaired. In this room lived a man, a woman, and two children; two children having previously died of fever. These poor people were bonnet-box makers, and earned, they said, only 8s. a-week; they also paid 1s. 6d. a-week rent for this room. I do not cite these as isolated cases deserving of your peculiar attention; but as circum-
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stances of such general application, as to be beyond the reach of private benevolence. There is, I am happy to say, a Society lately established to which I am a subscriber, and which I rejoice to hear is sanctioned by the Government, the object of which is to furnish the poor with at least specimens of fitter buildings for their use. When this has been done, I trust that the problem will be solved, and that it will be proved that it is no longer necessary for the working man on account of his poverty, to inhabit dwellings of this description. It was high time to ask the question, was this a state of things that ought to be allowed to continue? It has arisen from the abandonment of its duty on the part of the Legislature, and I do not believe that there is any other civilised country in which such scenes of filth and misery—arising from neglect on the part of the Government—could be found. I will not attempt to describe to your Lordships the scenes of social degradation that might be found in some of these labyrinths of courts within courts so well described;
"Where flags the noon-tide air, and as we pass
We fear to breathe the putrefying mass."
Such scenes I have beheld in Dolphin-court; in George-yard; in New-court New-street; in Crown-court Quaker-street, Spitalfields; and many others of which I could give the names, only I should not thereby convey any definite idea to your Lordships. I will therefore, merely mention two or three instances which came within my observation, where the cases were marked by some peculiar characteristic. In New-court, Mile-end, I was shown a girl who had been subject to epileptic fits; she had been removed for many months from this baneful residence, and her fits had never returned till within the last few days; when, having come back again to the same place, she had again had an attack of epilepsy. I was told by the medical men who accompanied me, that when those who were exposed to these noxious influences escaped fever, it was by no means uncommon that they paid the penalty in shape of some severe nervous disorder. In Crown Court, Spitalfields, I was shown one house, where all the inmates, eight in number, had severally been attacked with fever. Your Lordships can have no idea of the want of all the common decencies of social life which must prevail

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in some of the low lodging-houses in this neighbourhood, from the manner in which the inmates are crowded together, but I will not be tempted to enter upon this occasion upon that fertile field for animadversion. In Bethnal Green on the other hand you see a population capable in their present state, of better things, with tastes worthy of a happier lot. Gardens nicely cared for, and flowers cherished in a manner that shews them capable of enjoying the bounties of nature, and yet here are these hardworking people literally poisoned by the effluvia to which they are exposed by the neglect of any of the common precautions of general drainage, for which they naturally look to those above them. I will give a curious instance of the propinquity of the most culpable neglect in this respect with the application for other and what are called better classes of the appliances of advanced civilization, Lambs Fields already enjoyed an opprobrious reputation for the extensive pool of filthy water which stagnates over half its extent. Through this has latterly run the Eastern Counties Railway, and the inhabitants hoped that they might profit by some care being extended to that portion of this appliances which was not required for the structure, on which the daily crowds who hurried through this pestifrous space for business or for pleasure were borne along—but in this they were disappointed, and not the slightest effort has been made to make this triumph of capital and of science a benefit to the wretched inhabitants of the district through which this mighty creation passes, by mitigating the evils which spread disease and death amongst them. Another curious instance—on the way to the Bethnal Green workhouse, there is at the back of Nassau Street, facing St. Andrew's Church, an open green, between which and the road there is a broad stagnant ditch, an effort had been made to run the contents of this ditch into a sewer which had latterly been constructed as far as a bridge at the corner of this piece of ground, but the landlord had dammed it up, in order to make a better protection against the boys who might play in his field. So to save him the expense of a fence, all the inhabitants of these otherwise eligible houses were exposed to this pestiferous infliction. But enough of individual instances which I could multiply ad infinitum. From all the information I have collected either
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personally or from documents, it is clear to me that certain provisions must be required in any legislative measure as indispensable. That water should be constantly supplied to every house; that the refuse should be removed by means of water; that the drainage should always communicate with the common sewer, and that as to building regulations, the first thing is, that ventilation should at once be in some shape or other required. Some other precautions are particularly required in some of the manufacturing towns where from the influx of additional population, houses are run up upon speculation, without the slightest attention either to security or convenience, as is stated by Dr. Mott, of Manchester. Objections have been stated to the former Bills on this subject which were fortunate enough to receive your Lordships' sanction. It has been alleged by those who have produced other measures, in which all the defects of the former ones have been maintained, that all the provisions with respect to the building regulations in the Bill which passed the House of Lords, were found to be impracticable. As I am not now going to propose any thing of a similar character for your Lordships' sanction, I need only say, that these measures were then submitted to the most eminent architects, Mr. Pennethorn, Mr. Cubitt and others, and the details were all approved of by them. But your Lordships may recollect that I then stated I thought it would be found necessary to establish some superintending machinery to work out those measures, and I am now decidedly of opinion, that Parliament should not legislate upon these subjects by clauses, but should establish some well-considered principles upon which the public health should be cared for; and then should leave it to a competent practical authority to see that these were properly carried out in details. I am aware that many look upon the dreadful results I have been describing as the necessary consequence of poverty, and therefore to be deplored, but still to be borne. This opinion is directly in the face of all the evidence collected upon every one of them. Mr. Chadwick in his report proves by concurrent testimony, that these diseases oftenest attack those in full work, and therefore not stinted in food. Dr. Arnott in his evidence upon the existing commission, shows that the sickness and deaths bear no relative pro-

1473
portion to the distress and destitution. The medical attendants at Glasgow stated that it was most severe amongst those of the labouring classes who were apparently rather robust in frame, if their homes were in a state to indicate their predisposing causes to disease, and though Dr. Dalt, of Glasgow, in a report which I have recently received, states as a reason why there was more sickness at the period of returning prosperity, that private benevolence was suddenly withdrawn, yet the fact is admitted to have been the same—that as general distress diminished, sickness increased. In Manchester the year 1841 was one of peculiar distress, but the proportion of the mortality was in the same year reduced from one in twenty-eight to one in thirty-one. In Liverpool where there was a mixed population, and therefore no such distress from the sudden depression of manufactures there was no corresponding reduction of mortality. This then is clear, that epidemic disease does not necessarily accompany poverty, but its visitation deprives a period of comparative ease and relative prosperity of all its blessings. I have hitherto viewed this question merely as one of common humanity, but it may not be uninstructive or without a beneficial effect upon the conduct of some persons relative to it—to look at it in a financial point of view, to calculate the dead loss in a money value of preventible sickness. The first compendious estimate under this head that I have seen was one given in Mr. Chadwick's Report, upon the authority of the Rev. Mr. Lewis, minister of St. Andrew's, Dundee. But I cannot mention Dundee, without alluding to the satisfaction I had in presenting lately a petition from that town on these subjects, signed by upwards of 4,000 of the working classes—nothing can be more creditable to those classes in the northern part of this island, than the active movement at present going on amongst them to raise their condition in these respects. In Edinburgh, Dundee, and I believe Glasgow, public meetings have been held, originating entirely with the working men, to establish public baths, and to take means for the improvement of their dwellings. This disposition has been taken advantage of by a benevolent gentleman of the name of Simpson, who has delivered lectures, at once eloquent and practical, to large assemblages
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in these towns. I trust that interest on those subjects will spread southward amongst the same classes. I have been diverted for a moment from the calculation of Mr. Lewis as to the cost of sickness—his calculation is founded upon an estimate of Mr. M'Culloch, that every skilled artizan had cost 300 l., and might be taken as worth half that sum, and taking this for the number of deaths, and calculating also the six week's loss of wages by the average duration of the disease for those who survived — he makes the amount, without any allowance for orphanage or widowhood, cost 25,000 l. annually, and this would be a dead loss, not to those actually afflicted, but to the whole population, of more than the difference in the price of corn of the dearest year and the cheapest. Mr. Hawksley of Nottingham states his calculation differently, and reckoning something for the charges of support of widows and orphans, where the head of the family was the person attacked, he makes the cost in Nottingham 300,000 l. in six years. It is unnecessary to calculate for your Lordships the amount this must bring to bear upon the whole population. You will at once see that a greater saving might in this direction be made in the charges which bear upon the productive industry of the country, than by any other means through fiscal alteration. But I am aware that many think those evils, however frightful, are only partial, that they visit merely those districts, where for the purposes of manufactures or other increasing employments, numbers are collected together. I wish your Lordships would carefully peruse Mr. Toynbee's evidence, the surgeon of St. George's and St. James's dispensary, where you will see that within a few yards of your Lordships' own dwellings, in the courts in the neighbourhood of Grosvenor-square, and other parts of the west end, precisely the same predisposing causes existed, and the same evils followed. There was also another valuable part of Mr. Toynbee's evidence as showing that the comforts of those who live by their labour did not by any means depend upon the then money amount of their wages. This is a point your Lordships must always bear in mind, whenever von take into your consideration that question which must force itself upon your attention — the physical and social condition of the great, body of the people. Mr. Toynbee states, that he had many

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applications from persons in receipt of comparatively a high rate of remuneration, who were obliged by their vocations to live in particular localities, and to pay so much for rent and for doctors' bills, that he considered them more objects of charity than the labourer who had not more than two-fifths of their earnings. He gives for instance the case of a policeman. A policeman must live in certain districts, being in constant work he could not be supposed to be subject to the afflictions of absolute poverty; but the policeman to whom he alludes, out of his pay of 1l. a-week, had to pay 5s. rent, and large sums in doctors' bills, his children being all constantly ill, and consequently he was obliged to relieve this man, whom he considered a greater object of charity than a labourer at 8s. a-week. Much has been said in former discussions of the greater hardships of the agricultural portion of the population from exposure to the weather; but in this Report Dr. Guy states that cases not only of fever but of consumption are much more to be traced to confinement in close workshops than to any exposure to labour in the open air. It is stated in the evidence of Mr. Coulthurst that the want of ventilation from which fever proceeded at Ashton-under-Lyne, arose from the people not being able to have fresh air in their houses, in consequence of having been confined during the day in close manufacturies. Much has also been said of the evils of overcrowding, and a striking instance was given of it in the evidence of Mr. Clay of Preston. Preston is the town in which the population has most increased within this century, and there, according to Mr. Clay, were eighty-four instances in which four persons slept in a bed, thirty-five in which more than five so slept, three in which seven, and one in which eight slept, in the same bed. I see by the Report of the Census Commissioners, that it is stated that within the last ten years, houses have increased in a larger proportion than the population. This, as far as it goes is satisfactory, but nothing is stated as to the size of the houses. I believe in point of fact, in most of these new speculations in building, the houses are much smaller than formerly, and, therefore, in reality, more people now crowded into the same space though, perhaps, not under the same roof. Before quitting this part of the subject, I can not help adverting in a few words to the con-
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formation derived from the Reports of Mr. Clay of Preston and Mr. Coulthurst of Ashton of the impressions I have formerly urged upon your Lordships as to the effects of the overworking of the women. I readily admit that if such are to be the dwellings in which the working classes are for ever to be condemned to live, if there is to be no attempt to improve them, it would be useless to hope that any good effect would be produced by a limitation of the hours of labour either by voluntary arrangement with the employer, or by legislative interference; but on the other hand, I am quite sure from the evidence in this Report, that until such a limitation simultaneously takes place, it will be impossible to secure to the population of this country the comforts of a home. For after all, what is a home? It is where, in the interval between the time occupied in the labour necessary for support, and that which is equally needful as rest, should be cultivated the social relations of families, and should be practised those moral duties which belong to the character of a superior being. How is such a home to be maintained when sleep induced by fatigue claims every moment not spent as a mechanical fraction of a mighty machine whose labours are directed by a power which never tires? In the evidence of Mr. Clay it is stated:—
"Marriages take place among the latter (the labouring classes) not merely when there is no reasonable prospect as to future maintenance—not merely at too early an age—but when neither the young husband nor wife is in the slightest degree prepared to fulfil the duties incumbent upon them: Perhaps neither can read; the wife cannot prepare a meal either comfortably or frugally; she is unable to dispose of her husband's wages in the manner best adapted for the support and convenience of their home; she can neither repair his clothing nor her own; and thus good wages are often squandered by ignorance and incapacity, which, under proper management, would procure every requisite and some luxuries, and permit a little to be placed in the savings bank. With such unfitness for the character of a wife, in what light does she appear as a mother? Probably, she is compelled by the necessity of her attendance at the factory, to forego one of the greatest of a mother's delights—the nursing of her child. The infant, when a few weeks old, is committed to the care of a nurse, who exposes it to cold, feeds it improperly, and drugs it with 'Godfrey,' until the little sufferer is soon removed from the world to make room for a successor doomed to the same short but mi-

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serable course. Marriages among the poor are prompted not only by thoughtlessness and mere animal instinct, but sometimes on the part of the man, by heartless selfishness. The writer has met with several cases in which the husband was living in wilful idleness, supported entirely by his poor wife's wages earned as a warper or power-loom weaver."
Mr. Coulthurststates for Ashton-under-Lyne that the infant mortality there is greater there than in any other town in Lancashire, and this he attributes to the neglect of the children forced upon the mothers by the nature of their occupation, engrossing every moment of their time. And he draws a frightful picture of the quantity sold by the druggists of that pernicious compound which is known by a hundred different seductive names, but which was clandestinely called "Infant's quietness." Of this it was stated that the dose was "half a spoonful and more if necessery." If necessary! What was to be the necessity, and who was to judge of it? A person generally without the slightest natural affection for the child, and whose object was, at any risk, for her own comfort to put an end to its cries, Another picture is presented by Mr. Coulthurst of the flourishing town of Ashton-under-Lyne well worthy the serious attention of those who are so ready to boast of the advantages of the present day. Those advantages are great, but there is a dark side to the picture. Mr. Coulthurst states that on searching the marriage certificates of eighty years ago he found that there were then forty-four men and twenty-five females who could sign the marriage certificate out of every hundred; now there were only twelve men and eight women who could do so. It is right, after detailing the want of domestic comfort and this ignorance in Ashton, arising from causes only indirectly connected with the object of our present inquiry, that we should state that here is on the other hand furnished a proof that many of the other evils referred to might be much mitigated by the superintending authority of the landlord. The town belongs principally to Lord Stamford, and his agent has been directed in all leases to the under tenants to insert such sanatory regulations as should be desirable; and the result of this is shown by a comparison of the tables of mortality at Ashton-under-Lyne with other towns similarly situated. By such comparison your Lordships will find to a
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certain extent the advantages of such interference. This could not always be done, because these tenements were too often in the hands of persons who made an exorbitant profit out of the necessities of the poor. I own I am much discouraged as to any speedy improvement in these matters when I read the statement of Dr. Dunen of Liverpool as to what occurred forty years ago. It appears that the condition of the poor people living in cellars was at that rime pressed upon the attention of the Corporation, but local interests prevented attention to the judicious recommendations then offered, and the population of Liverpool, at present the most sickly in the kingdom, has trebled in amount since that period, and in 1844 we are obliged to repeat the same language which had been used by the Committee of Physicians in 1800 There is another point to which I wish to direct your Lordships' attention, with reference to these legislative measures, which I am desirous you should now encourage by an assurance of your continued anxiety to improve the condition of the poor, and that is the necessity that every measure of this nature should be taken out of local control—I do not mean the details, but that there should be a superintending central authority. Mr. Hawksley said, that in Nottingham it was the fear of suffering loss from the reduction of value in the present dwellings, which prevented the commonable lands from being applied beneficially for the erection of habitations for the poor. I know from experience how little good results in too many cases from the reports of medical officers to the Boards of Guardians. Boards of Guardians are too often the very persons most interested in maintaining the present state of things, and I know that medical officers have sometimes had hints thrown out to them, that they had better not interfere with what did not concern them, when they ventured to make any suggestions as to the existing abominations. I have now endeavoured to prove and I hope successfully, that there ought to be no further delay, that up to a certain period there has been on the part of the Government a perfectly unaccountable and, I must be permitted to add, inexcusable delay. Whatever may be the merit of the course subsequently taken in the appointment of the present Commission, upon which I have my own opinion, I will not now question what has been done in this respect; still I say the former

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delay was indefensible. And what do I now ask your Lordships to do? Do I ask you to pass any the slightest censure upon those who have been responsible for this delay? The words of the Motion with which I shall conclude, do not necessarily bear any such construction. I merely wish that the Commission of Inquiry having first been appointed in consequence of an Address from your Lordships' House, and previous to the receipt of its Report, your Lordships having thought the evil so pressing that you had three times put the remedy into a legislative shape, I merely now ask that you should after two years subsequent inaction shew that you have not repented of your good intentions, or lost your virtuous sympathy for the suffering poor. I am aware that this is a question which of all others must, as to the working of its details, be left to the Executive Government. An individual could not do much good by legislation, and might do harm, therefore, after calling for this expression of the opinion of the House, I am willing for the present to leave the matter in the responsibility of the Executive Government. But let them beware of further delay. We now live in times of comparative political apathy. These, as in 1830, may be followed by times of peculiar political excitement. I am far from saying, should such a change take place, that any direct danger is to be apprehended from the sources to which I have been referring. No factious outcry is likely to affright the State from the feeble voices which crowd the wards of the fever hospitals. Such crowds are not those from the collection of which political conspiracy is to be feared; but the sick bed is the place in which there is most time to brood over neglect, or to feel gratitude for sympathy. It is an item in that account which the Legislature will one day have to render for the continued neglect of the condition of the people. If in the midst of immense wealth and multiplying capital, there is needless misery and deep degradation amongst large masses of the population, your Lordships should feel that it depends upon you to show that that degradation is not entirely hopeless, and to hold out at least a prospect of relief. You will be doing an act most consistent with your own former proceedings, most grateful to your Sovereign, if before you retire to your own wide domains and splendid homes, you shew that you are not unmind-
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ful of the unmitigated misery which still haunts the close pestiferous courts and those denlike abodes — if, as hereditary counsellors of the Crown, you approach your Sovereign to assure her of your sympathy for the poorest—the most helpless—the most patient and the most suffering portion of Her subjects. I have to apologise for the length to which the subject has led me, and conclude with moving
"That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, to thank Her Majesty for the Report upon the state of large towns and populous districts, recently presented to this House by Her Majesty's Command; to assure Her Majesty that this House continue to feel a constant and active interest in the Sanatory Condition of the People; to express our earnest hope, that early in next Session of Parliament, Her Majesty would be pleased to call the specific attention of Parliament to a subject of such paramount importance, and to recommend for adoption some practical measure of a comprehensive character, calculated to remedy evils of such acknowledged magnitude and proved extent."
The Duke of Buccleuchsaid, the subject which the noble Marquess had introduced to their Lordships was not one to be lightly treated; nor was it one of a party nature; it was not a question of party feeling, but of public policy and of humanity. The statements made by the noble Marquess of the condition of the poor in some of our public towns were warranted by the accounts which he (the noble Duke) had received, and by what he had witnessed. Until he had entered the precincts of one of these towns, he was not aware of the extent to which the evil existed. The noble Marquess had entered into statistical details of the number of deaths—and he had stated that not less than 50,000 annually—as he had supposed — might have been saved by proper sanatory regulations: but unless these statistical statements were analyzed, they were apt to deceive, and led to no practical result. For example, when it was stated, that of 100 children, one-half died before they had attained one year, he could only say that he did not think that his noble Friend had made due allowance for the ill effects of consumption and those epidemic diseases by which so many children were cut off at an early age; and—it was a curious fact—it would be found that where there was the lowest state of health amongst infants there was the greatest amount of births. It might seem extraordinary that it should be so,

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but the fact was established by evidence upon their Lordships' Table. The noble Marquess had supposed that a great deal of misery might be prevented by the adoption of proper sanatory measures. He (the Duke of Buccleuch)should not go through the instances of neglect, and culpable neglect, which were exhibited upon this point; but as the noble Marquess had blamed the Government for delay in appointing a Commission, and in introducing sanatory measures; and had made some strong remarks on the "inexcusable delay" of the Government, he (the Duke of Buccleuch) felt it necessary to call the attention of their Lordships shortly to the history of this question. The first time their Lordships' attention had been called to the subject was in the Appendix to the Report of the Poor Law Commissioners in 1838. He did not find that anything had been done in consequence of that Report. At the next Report of the Commissioners nothing was done. In 1839 a right rev. Prelate had brought the question under the consideration of their Lordships by moving an Address for an inquiry into the Sanatory State of the Population of London, which was carried. The subject was referred by Lord John Russell to the Poor Law Commissioners. In 1840, Mr. Slaney moved in the House of Commons for a Committee of Inquiry into the Sanatory State of the Country. That Committee examined witnesses and made a full Report, but nothing was done in that year. In January, 1841, the noble Marquess introduced a Drainage Bill. In 1841, the noble Lord presented these Bills at a time when the Poor Law Commissioners were carrying on their investigations, but before they had made any report. In 1842 the Bills passed their Lordships' House, but too late in the Session to be proceeded with in the other House. In July, 1842, the Report was presented, and excited great attention. It made known facts which startled many, and which met with a good deal of consideration from the Government; but the magnitude and importance of the subject, and the very great difficulties connected with it, determined them to refer the whole matter to a Commission comprising men of science, engineers, medical officers, and persons skilled in the construction and arrangements necessary for carrying out a complete system of drainage. The noble Marquess founded his complaint of the dila-
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toriness of the proceedings of the Commission upon the dates at which they appeared to have taken the evidence; and undoubtedly if the receiving evidence constituted the whole labour of the Commission, they would appear to have proceeded slowly—but their duties were much more comprehensive, and they worked as hard as any Commission that had ever been appointed. As to the reception of the evidence, instead of being a waste of time, he considered it to be of the greatest use, because it pointed out causes for the existence of the evils complained of, which had been previously adverted to. Their investigations had been most extensive and minute, and the result of their inquiries had brought to light many causes of a low state of public health which had not been previously adverted to. One of the chief points they had to investigate was, with respect to the present state of the law, and how far it was carried out in many cases it was found that, under the present state of the law a great deal more might be done than had yet been accomplished. For instance, if the sewerage of the metropolis had been attended to as it ought to have been for the last twenty or twenty-five years, the greatest public advantage would have been gained. Many parts of the town were admirably drained, while in others the sewerage was almost incredibly defective. A great mistake had prevailed as to the law relating to sewers, many parties having imagined that they had no power to make new sewers unless where an ancient sewer had previously existed. But it was not enough that there should be even good sewerage; a sewer might be constructed the whole length of a street, but without house drains very little good could be effected. There was another point with regard to the sanatory condition of the people, namely, a proper and ample supply of water to the dwellings of the poor. The supply of water to some parts of the metropolis and to many of the principal cities, was positively disgraceful to this country, and that was a very great evil. This was the more to be regretted when it was known, as the Commissioners had reported, that in the populous town of Nottingham, for example, a sufficient supply of good water might be had at the rate of 1d. per tenement. But the supply of water should not only be adequate to the necessities of the population, it must be sufficient to wash and clear the sewers and

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drains, or they would be nothing better than extended cesspools, which were already sufficiently numerous, and noxious in their influence especially within crowded localities. Great advantage had also been derived from the inquiries of the Commission with respect to the proper structure and arrangement of sewers and drains. The next point of importance to be considered in relation to the sanatory condition of the people in large towns, was the number of cellar dwellings. It was a curious fact, that the Commissioners in almost every town which they visited, brought to light evils of the existence of which the inhabitants had been totally ignorant, up to the time of the arrival of the Commissioners. In Liverpool it was stated, at a scientific meeting, that there were no less than 30,000 persons residing in cellars in that town. When this statement was made, the inhabitants scouted the idea of such a thing being possible, and they had the matter investigated by the police. It appeared, however, from that investigation, that there were about that number of persons actually residing in cellars in the town of Liverpool. A Bill was since passed with a view to preserving the Health, and regulating Dwellings, &c., in Liverpool; and amongst other things it provided, that after a certain time named in the Bill, all dwellers in cellars should be obliged to quit those dwellings, and seek residences elsewhere. Thus, on the 1st of July in this year, every one of those 30,000 persons ought to have left those cellar dwellings: but the law had been inoperative in consequence of there being no dwellings for those persons in case they all left their residences in cellars, as at least 20,000 of them would be without habitations. That was a great difficulty in dealing with the subject of cellar dwellings. It should be recollected that there were other causes which operated very powerfully in causing disease amongst the poorer classes, besides want of drainage. The immense crowding of large masses of people together in ill-ventilated dwellings was of itself a great cause of fever and other diseases which afflicted the poorer classes of the population in large towns. Indeed, it was stated on high medical authority, that not only was fever engendered by that crowding together of great numbers of people without sufficient ventilation, but scrofula, which was a very malignant disease, was created
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to an unusual extent by that overcrowding and want of ventilation. That overcrowding and the evils which resulted from it were not confined to the districts in the east end of the town alone, for there were districts very near their Lordships' House in which the inhabitants were extremely crowded, and in which all the evils of bad ventilation were endured. In Westminster, at a short distance from their Lordships' House, there were numerous dwellings, the occupants of which were crowded together in ill-ventilated rooms, calculated to engender disease. In the neighbourhood of Regent-street and Grosvenor-square, also, there were many dwellings of a similar character, and the evils which were entailed upon those who resided in them could not be exaggerated, for in addition to the overcrowding producing disease, it also was calculated to superinduce a moral degradation which it was painful to contemplate. The want of decency and injury to morals that were likely to arise from crowding numbers of persons of different sexes and closely allied in kindred in small rooms was painful in the extreme to contemplate, and he should not, therefore, attempt to describe to their Lordships the moral evils which accompanied this state of things in addition to its being a fertile cause of sickness and mortality. It was of great importance that all these facts should be publicly made known, for much might be done by individuals as well as by legislative measures in alleviating those evils. The result of having public attention directed to the subject would be that many valuable suggestions of a practical nature would be made, which suggestions might be afterwards introduced, if they were thought advantageous, in any measure introduced upon the subject. Great benefit would also be derived from the Report of the Commission by calling the attention of proprietors of houses and land in the neighbourhood of large towns to this subject, for much might be done by private individuals as well as by the Legislature. With respect to the health of the people of this country, as compared with others, their Lordships would find that the mortality was greater in many other countries; for instance, Dr. Griscom, in speaking of Philadelphia, says,
"Half of those born there appear to die before the fifth year, and no less than 27 per cent. of the remainder die under fifty years of age, and the average age of death of all who

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die there above twenty years of age, appears to be below forty-six years; whilst in Bethnal-green, one of the worst districts in London, it is nearly forty-nine years, and the average in London appears to be fifty-three years."
One great objection to the adoption of measures for improving the sanatory condition of towns appeared to be a dread of the expense attending upon such measures; but the advantage of taking proper measures to secure ventilation and a proper supply of water were so great and evident that there could be no question of the fact. Indeed the recommendations on the subject of a supply of water, which had been made by the scientific and professional gentlemen, were of the greatest value, and had received great attention, not only here but on the Continent, particularly in Hamburg, where the recommendations as to the arrangement of sewers and the supply of water had been of very great importance and advantage. The adoption of a general plan and principle of drainage in the large towns in this country had been very much neglected; in each place the drainage was generally only intended for that particular spot instead of being part, of a well-considered plan, and if such a plan had been laid out and acted upon, an immense sum of money would have been saved, or the sums which had been laid out in drainage would have been capable of producing an infinitely more extensive system. In the eastern part of London particularly, complaints had been made that the sewers were not large enough, and they did not admit the full quantity of water which was required to flow through them, the result being that it flooded back, instead of being carried away. The cause of that was the fact of the sewers having been originally intended for small portions of those districts, and consequently, when the number of dwellings had greatly increased, they were not of sufficient capacity to drain them. The proper way in which to construct sewers would be to commence by a survey for the purpose; and he was glad to perceive that the Ordnance survey would be of great use for sanatory purposes in many large towns. There were many points in the Appendix to the Report of the Commissioners, which were all deserving of attention. It appeared from the evidence of several medical men, that an enormous amount of mortality took place amongst the infants in manufactur-
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ing towns. That mortality was greatly increased, not alone by bad ventilation and unhealthy atmosphere, but a great portion of the deaths arose from a cause which was revolting to our feelings, namely, the inordinate use of opiates, immense quantities of which were administered to infants in manufacturing towns—quantities so extraordinary in amount that it would hardly be credited. The mothers, as soon after the birth of their children as possible, returned to their ordinary work, leaving their children to the care of others who were very poorly paid for attending to them, and it thus happened that a dozen children were left under the care of one old woman, of perhaps seventy years of age, who would require to be taken care of herself, or of children of ten or twelve years of age, who took no heed of them. When children were thus left by the mothers, the first thing which those who had the care of them did in the morning was, the administration of a drug called "infant's quiet." It was given again to them at dinner time, and a double quantity was given to them at bed-time. The effect of this was most injurious to the child's health, to such an extent that medical men going into a school where children of that class attended, could immediately point out which of them had suffered from that drug. Another point to which attention was directed in the Appendix, was ventilation; but there was considerable difficulty in getting the poor to ventilate their rooms. With regard to ventilation, it was a very fit subject for the attention of the owners of the habitations of the lower classes: but then there was great difficulty in persuading those classes to use it to a greater extent. The rooms were often so crowded, that although a person at one end of a room might wish the window open, another might object to it. He did not see how it was possible for the Legislature to provide a remedy in such a case as that, or to insist that in all houses of every or any description there must be a certain amount of ventilation. He could not agree to the proposal of the noble Marquess for an Address to the Crown. He did not think that an Address was called for at the present moment, or that any more good could be expected from it than they were likely to derive without it. Indeed, it appeared to him that the noble Lord's Motion was more characterized by a desire to cast censure on the Government

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for the alleged delay, than by a wish for immediate legislative interference. He did not mean, however, to say that the House did not feel an interest in the subject, and that they were not anxious that such a measure should be brought forward—he would be the last man to say that, for he was anxious, deeply anxious, that a measure should be brought forward for the improvement of the sanatory condition of the people, and passed as soon as possible. They should, however, consider what a great difference there was between passing a measure which would be capable of effecting the object for which it was brought forward, and passing hastily a crude half-digested measure which would fail when they attempted to put it in execution. They had already seen the consequences of passing such a measure as the latter; they had seen a measure passed with relation to a particular town inoperative in consequence of the condition of the population of that town. Now, with regard to the intentions of the Government on this subject he could state that the Commission to which he had the honour to belong was busily engaged with the voluminous papers which were laid before them, papers of great intricacy, and embracing subjects which involved considerable difficulty; they were directing their best attention to the preparation of a Report, but they were not as yet so far advanced as to enable him to give to the House a description of what the Report was to contain. It would not profess to recommend measures to their Lordships, but it would call their attention to the evidence which had been laid before them, and direct attention particularly to those parts which were of the greatest importance. The Report was not yet ready, but he expected in due course of time—he hoped the noble Marquess would not be alarmed by such a statement—that it would be furnished. He trusted that early next Session a measure would be laid before this or the other House of Parliament with regard to the sanatory condition of the people. It was impossible at this time to say what would be the nature of its provisions. It was a subject which required great consideration; but for the reasons he had assigned he could not agree to the Motion of the noble Marquess, and he should, therefore, move the previous question.
The Marquess of Normanbyobserved, in reply, that he thought his noble Friend
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had not succeeded in giving a satisfactory answer to his complaint of delay; in censuring the Government for which, he begged to assure his noble Friend that he had no party motive whatever. He was exceedingly glad he had extracted something in the shape of a specific promise from the noble Lord on the subject, and would not press his Motion to a division.
The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, that so far from this being a party question, he, when on the opposite benches, supported the measure of the noble Marquess. It was also strongly supported by his noble Friend, since appointed Governor General of India, to whom the noble Marquess expressed his obligation for the pains and attention he had bestowed upon it. His noble Friend at the head of the Commission which had been appointed by the Government, had informed them that the subject was not yet ripe for legislation. The valuable Report before them showed the real nature of the subject, and the enormous difficulties that were connected with it, and proved to him that the utmost attention ought to be paid to the whole question, in order successfully to apply a remedy. The questions contained in that Blue Book had been the subject of legislation in this country from the time of Henry VI. down to the present moment. It showed that there was not a proprietor of a house in this town who was not in some shape or other interested in the question of sewers, for instance, or whose property and life might not be affected by the measures to be adopted respecting them. The subject, therefore, was one which required the utmost care and attention, in order that any measure brought forward should be attended with beneficial results. The very matter of turning people out of their cellars could not be effected until other accommodation had been provided for them.
The Marquess of Normanbysaid, the Bill provided that persons should not be summarily turned out of cellars until after a certain period. Time was also to be allowed to enable parties to provide sufficient ventilation.
Motion negatived.
House adjourned.