§ Lord Denmansaid, it had been intimated that it was in the contemplation of her Majesty's Government to appoint judges to go a third circuit in order to obviate the inconvenience and injustice which had been said to result from keeping prisoners confined during the interval between the summer and spring assizes. A vote of the House of Commons had been taken for the purpose of meeting the additional expenses which would thus be incurred. He thought the step was one far too important to be made upon the responsibility of Government; and he expressed that opinion the more confidently, because he felt assured that such an alteration could not be made useful or effectual, without some new powers being given by the Legislature. He felt strongly for parties who might be subjected to a long imprisonment before trial, and who might come out of the dock with a verdict of "Not guilty;" but at the 272 same time it ought not to be forgotten that the convenience of many persons was implicated in the change, and that not only the sheriffs of counties, but the gentry and tradesmen who were to serve on the juries, were under the new system to be called together a third time in the year, no doubt to their great personal inconvenience and pecuniary loss. When he stated that such change could not be made useful without a Legislative enactment he meant this—that as there was a Central Criminal Court for the metropolitan districts, where sittings were held at frequent intervals, so the Queen might he empowered by Parliament to issue a commission for certain districts in the provinces according to the actual necessities of the case, according to the pressure of prisoners in the gaols, and as the general state of the country might require. Under this plan a district court might be created, at which the attendance of only one sheriff and one set of jurors and other officers, would be required for the purpose of clearing the gaols. He was the more called on to make this statement to their Lodrships, because it seemed to him impossible that such an arrangement as that proposed could be carried into effect without the creation of additional judges. He knew it was often said that the judges had much leisure time on their hands, but, so far from this being the case, he could assure the House, that from the commencement of November to the end of August many of the judges had not an hour which they could call their own. It was a subject of not 'infrequent complaint even now that judgment in important cases were delayed, but he really thought that there was no delay which was not perfectly consistent with the occupation of the judges' time in the consideration of other business. He thought the subject was one which should be taken up cautiously, and he was also of opinion that all the powers connected with the new arrangement should be powers proceeding directly from the Parliament. He did not wish in these observations to suggest any plan of his own, but he did desire that no scheme should be adopted without that attention being given to it of which the subject was so eminently deserving.
§ The Duke of Richmondthought it of great importance that there should be a winter circuit. When the judges now went to deliver a gaol, they often found a man 273 brought up for trial who had laid many months in prison, and upon whom they were consequently induced to pass a Very lenient sentence. That man, when the period of his punishment expired, went home to his village and there gave out that the judge had considered his offence so trivial that he had only passed a very light sentence. A comparison was forthwith drawn between sentences at assizes and sentences at quarter sessions, which was invariably disadvantageous to the latter, because the facts were not understood. At the same time he admitted the importance of the noble Lord's observations. As he understood him, if it was found there were only six prisoners in Maidstone gaol whilst there were a large number in Lewes gaol, the prisoners at the former would at the third assizes go to the latter place to take their trial. If that plan were to be put in practice, the noble Lord would see that there must be some addition to the county expenses in the shape of charges for conveyance of prisoners and witnesses, although at the same time there would be undoubtedly a saving of expense and inconvenience to judges, sheriffs, and other functionaries. On the whole, he thought that some arrangement might be made such as that the noble Lord had suggested, and, at all events, his recommendations were worthy of attentive consideration.
Lord Campbellexpressed his general concurrence in what had fallen from the noble Lord the Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench, but suggested that means might be taken to avoid any increase to the present number of judges. A professional chairman, for example, might be appointed to courts of quarter sessions, or, if this suggestion were objectionable, the Irish judges who had very little to do might be brought over here to assist the adjudication of our laws. This last idea might, he thought, deserve particular attention. The state of the law was the same, and there was no earthly reason why a judge should not adjudicate as well in York as in Cork. Such an arrangement as an interchange of judges might, too, possibly draw closer the bonds of union between the countries.