HL Deb 19 February 1841 vol 56 cc738-41
Lord Glengall

rose to move for copies of the letters addressed by Mr. Nicholls to the Assistant Poor-law Commissioners of Ireland, respecting inquiries they were directed to make regarding the valuations of unions, in obedience to the directions of the Irish government. It appeared by a letter published in the newspapers, that Mr. Nicholls, the resident commissioner, had written to the other Poor-law Commissioners, desiring them to give every facility to Messrs. Decie and Haig, "in comparing the number and description of rate-payers entered on the valuation with the persons registered as being entitled to exercise the Parliamentary franchise." He had no doubt, from facts which had come to his knowledge, that the letter was authentic, and his reason for moving for its production was, that any calculations which could be founded on such inspection of the valuations must be fallacious. Few valuations had been completed in any of the Irish unions; in the south, with very few exceptions, there were none, and where they did exist, so many objections had been lodged, that it would be impossible to form any calculation until the appeals had been disposed of. There was another point deserving of some notice. It appeared that these inspections were to be conducted with the greatest possible secresy. The letter concluded thus:— It is very important that these examinations and comparisons should be conducted as quietly as possible, and in a way to excite the least attention and remark; and you are requested to be particularly guarded on that head in your communications with the union functionaries, and with any other persons to whom you may have occasion to apply. He could not conjecture why the injunction of secresy had been given; but this he would say, that much which had been done relative to the administration of Poor-laws in Ireland had given rise to very unpleasant suspicions, that the commissioners were in some respects used for political purposes.

The Marquess of Normanby

had no objection to the production of the corres- pondence. The object of the Government was to collect from their own officers authentic information as to the best means of discovering some permanent basis of the franchise, by reference to the valuations under the Irish Poor-law; and the only motive for the secresy enjoined was, that expectations should not be excited which they might be unable to realize.

The Earl of Devon

begged to know from the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether he had received any information relative to the books of the valuators of the Poor law Union of Cloghereen, in the county of Tipperary, several of the names in which, it was alleged, as he had stated a few evenings ago, had been marked by distinctive words, such as "Tory" and "Disturber?"

The Marquess of Normanby

said, he had lost no time in making inquiry into this very extraordinary proceeding; and he had found that on the very day the noble Earl had directed his attention to it, a communication had been forwarded from the board of guardians to the Poor-law commissioners, stating, that they had discovered that such interpolations as those referred to by the noble Earl, had been made in the valuation papers; that they acquitted the valuators of any share in the proceeding; and that they had traced it to one of the clerks, whom they had in consequence severely reprimanded. The board of guardians expressed themselves very strongly upon the subject. The Poor-law commissioners followed in the same strain, adding, that the valuation papers in question had been prepared by a clerk named John O'Donnell, who had inserted the objectionable terms without the knowledge of the valuators; that they had approved of the course adopted by the board of guardians in reprehending the conduct of the person who had committed the offence, and they trusted that the board of guardians would continue upon all occasions to discountenance political and party distinctions of every description by those who might be employed under them, as otherwise the law could not have the good effect it was intended to produce. He had likewise heard from Mr. Nicholls, who said that they had felt it their duty to require Mr. O'Donoghue, the assistant-commissioner, to make further inquiry upon the subject, the result of which he would make known to their Lordships.

The Marquess of Westmeath

could not help thinking, that if the individual in fault had had no compunction in committing the act complained of, he would be likely to feel very little upon being reprimanded. In his opinion he ought to have been dismissed.

The Marquess of Salisbury

said, it appeared to him that the guardians themselves ought to be held responsible for the acts of those persons whom they appointed.

The Marquess of Normanby

admitted that, but as further inquiry was now being made, he did not wish to say anything more upon the subject until that inquiry was completed.

The Earl of Devon

would decline, for the same reason, to offer any opinion upon the matter at present.

The Earl of Glengall

observed, that five of the persons to whose names those distinctive terms had been attached were tenants of his, holding 10l. freeholds, and, considering that the union of Cloghereen was in the county of Tipperary, he must say, that such a notice placed them in a situation which was far from enviable or safe. Indeed, he very much apprehended that their lives as well as property would be endangered by having such political distinctions attached to their names in a public document, as they were thereby held up to public odium and remark. He confessed that he viewed this matter with feelings of deep apprehension. The valuators might have been ignorant of it, it was true; but that they should have neglected to look over this schedule after it had been delivered in was certainly rather extraordinary. The clerk who had made these interpolations could scarcely have imagined that the valuators would have omitted to do so; he must have been aware at the time of what he was doing, and it was not therefore unreasonable to conclude that he believed it would not be unpalatable to the valuators, or to the majority of the board of guardians. He would tell their Lordships for what purpose he conceived it had been done. Party spirit ran very high at present in the county of Tipperary, as it was well known it would be contested at the next election; the Radical and Repeal committees were making every exertion to ascertain from the valuators' books what the number, and who the persons were, whom those books would show to be on the re- gister; and he had no doubt that the clerk was making out a list of the Conservative 10l. freeholders, which he intended to transmit to those Radical committees. The 50l. freeholders were so well known that it was not necessary to attach any mark to their names.

The Marquess of Normanby

had only to observe, in consequence of the noble Earl having said, that the conduct of the clerk was not unpalatable to the majority of the board of guardians, that they had expressed their strongest disapprobation of all such proceedings. He agreed with his noble Friend that the valuators had evinced great neglect in not having looked over the books; but he could only repeat that the Poor-law commissioners, who were fully persuaded of the impropriety of the proceedings, were at this moment investigating it. He was aware how very invidious it was, to attach party distinctions to names contained in public documents; but while they all knew what was meant by the word "Tory," he should wish his noble Friend would give them a definition of the word "Disturber."

Returns ordered.

Adjourned.