Lords Sitting of 1 February 1841

MINUTES.
Petitions presented. By the Marquess of Normanby, from the Medical Practitioners of Devonport, and Stonehouse, in favour of Medical Reform.

EAST INDIAN PRODUCE.
Lord Ellenboroughpresented a petition from the East India and China association, praying for a repeal of the destructive duties levied on East Indian produce in Australia and Ceylon. It had been laid down as a general principle, that the commercial regulations affecting the intercourse between the United Kingdom and the colonial dependencies, and the mutual intercourse of these dependencies with each other should be based on perfect equality, subject to certain exceptions where the permanent interest of all the members of the community might render such exceptions necessary. There was to be no advantage given to one party over another, either in the colonial ports or in any of the ports of the United Kingdom. Parliament was not to secure to any persons or companies trading to these ports any partial advantages whatever. He would now state to their Lordships that British manufactured goods were imported into Australia free of duty, while a duty of 5 per cent, was imposed upon the manufacture of India. Now, it did so happen, that the main part of the Indian produce imported into Australia was grain, and that was only imported in times of distress and privation, and yet that duty of 5 per cent, was levied upon all the grain imported. When he had the honour of preparing the report for the committee, he had suggested to them the propriety

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of reducing the duty upon East-India rum within the next two or three year. The committee, however, did not feel themselves justified in assimilating the duty upon all articles of West India produce, not deeming it expedient in the present transition state of the West-India colonies. He trusted, however, that the House would see the justice and propriety of making a gradual reduction of all the discriminatory duties upon all the articles of East India produce. If East India rum was admitted on an equal duty to West India rum a great quantity of East India sugar would be imported; and looking at the present high price of sugar in Great Britain, and the privations to which the public were subjected, he trusted there would not be a second opinion upon the subject. He was aware indeed, that many obstacles opposed themselves to a complete equalization of duties, particularly the doubtful effects which that might have on our revenues; it was indeed very un-fortunate that at present there was so I small a margin; so small a surplus, or rather he should say there was at present no surplus at all; but so great a deficiency that it was impracticable on account of the revenue to do that for our East Indian possessions which justice demanded. He mentioned the subject with a view of calling attention to it, and of inquiring of the noble Marquess what part of the report of the committee it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to act upon.
The Marquess of Lansdownewas glad of the opportunity of stating that having himself presented a petition last year upon the subject, which had been at the suggestion of the noble Baron and with his own entire concurrence in the suggestion, referred to a committee of their Lordships' House, he took a warm interest in the subject to which the petition referred. He had thought inquiry necessary from the great importance of the trade with India, and from the still greater importance of the claims of the people of India themselves, to the fullest measure of justice from that House in all that regarded their interests. He still retained the same opinion, and was glad to find that his wish was participated in by the noble Baron, of extending to them without unnecessary delay those advantages to which he believed them justly entitled. Having said so much, he would state his entire concurrence with the views the noble Baron
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had expressed last year, that the report which the committee had sanctioned and adopted ought to be the foundation of future legislation. But it must be manifest to all who considered the magnitude of the interests at stake, and how numerous those interests were, that it would be impossible at once to effect that change which, in point of justice it might be desirable to effect. It was admitted, that if any change took place, it must be a change favourable to the interest of the producer and merchant of India, and in that view, he was happy to be able to mention to their Lordships that on the fullest consideration of the state of the supply of rum from the West Indies and from her Majesty's East Indian dominions, her Majesty's Government were prepared to propose to Parliament to do that which, when the bill came to be introduced, it would be easy to prove was not only reconcilable with justice, but with the interests of our West-Indian colonies themselves, namely, to equalize the duties on rum, whether produced in her Majesty's dominions in the East Indies, or her Majesty's colonies in the West Indies, leaving, of course, to the West Indies, the advantages which they derive from their geographical position. If the removal of those restrictions upon the commerce of India had not already been effected, it was not because there was any doubt as to the propriety and justice of the proceeding, but from the magnitude and complexity of the interests involved, which required the most careful and cautious consideration. He had, however, no doubt that at the very earliest moment the relief prayed for would be given, and an extension of Indian commerce would take place. Many of those matters to which the noble Lord had alluded, particularly cotton, were so connected with questions of revenue, that it was impossible not to see it would be necessary well to consider the subject before alterations were made. Not only was it necessary to pause in forming any opinion on the subject, but even when that opinion was formed, it would be inexpedient, in regard to taxation and revenue, to state that opinion before the Government was prepared to act upon it. He certainly considered the subject to be most important, and one that ought to be continually present to the minds both of the Government and Parliament.
Petition laid on the Table.

TRIAL OF THE EARL OF CARDIGAN.
The Earl of Shaftesburybrought up the Report of Committee appointed to inspect the journals of the House on the forms of the trial of Peers, and also to consider the proper mode of proceeding, in order to bring James Thomas, Earl of Cardigan, to a speedy trial. The Report was not a final one, and he, therefore, begged leave to move, that the Committee should be allowed to report from time to time. The Committee had considered the matter referred to them, and had come to the following Resoulutions:—
"1. That as a very considerable delay has occurred since the bill of indictment was preferred against James Thomas, Earl of Cardigan, it appears desirable, for the said James Thomas, Earl of Cardigan, should take place with all convenient speed.
"2. That as the destruction by fire of the two Houses of Parliament, renders access from this House to Westminster-hall inconvenient, reason aforesaid, that the trial should take place at the Bar of this House.
"3. That Tuesday, the 16th day of February, be fixed for the said trial, and that all the judges be summoned to attend."
Report agreed to.
The Earl of Shaftesburymoved, "That the Lord Chancellor be requested to write letters to all Lords to attend on Tuesday, the 16th of February, at eleven o'clock in the forenoon; and that all letters addressed to member of the Royal Family shall state that 'the House desire their presence.'"—Ordered.
The Earl of Shaftesburymoved, "That an humble Address be presented to her majesty, praying that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to give directions for the necessary fitting-up of this House, and to appoint a Lord High Steward to preside at the trial."—Ordered.
Adjourned