Lords Sitting of 27 August 1841

MINUTES.
Bills. Read a first time:—Administration of Justice; County Courts; Bankrupt Laws Amendment; Bankruptcy, Insolvency, and Lunacy.—Read a second time:—Buildings Regulation; Drainage of Towns; Boroughs Improvement.
Petitions presented. By Lord Teynham, from Inhabitants of St. James's-street, Piccadilly, for the Redemption of Tolls on the Metropolitan Bridges.—By Lord Hatherton, from Crossby Garret, for Church Extension.—Corn-laws, from Galway, against Alteration of, from Darlaston, for Repeal of.

ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS.
The Earl of Errolread at the Table an answer to the Address of their Lordships, voted on Tuesday last, as follows:—
"It gives me satisfaction to find, that the House of Lords are deeply sensible of the importance of those considerations to which I directed their attention in reference to the commerce and revenue of the country, and especially to the laws which regulate the trade in corn; and that, in deciding on the course which it may be advisable to pursue, it will be my earnest desire to consult the interests and promote the welfare of all classes of my subjects.
" Being always anxious of attending to the advice of Parliament, I will take into immediate consideration the other important matters contained in your Address."
To be entered on the journals.

BUILDINGS REGULATION.
The Marquess of Normanbymoved the Order of the Day for the second reading of the three Bills —the Buildings Regulation Bill, the Boroughs Improvement Bill, and the Drainage of Towns Bill, he said, that in the present state of public affairs, he should, of course, not take upon himself to propose any measure on which there was likely to be a difference of opinion, but the bills he had mentioned had gone through their several stages last Session with general concurrence, although their progress was stopped by the dissolution. The principles had met with universal assent, and the details had been patiently examined by Committees up stairs. He was very desirous, therefore, that the bills should now be placed in the situation they had formerly attained, and that without needless delay. He would move, at once, the second reading of them.

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With reference to the Boroughs Improvement Bill, an amendment bad been introduced by a noble and learned Lord, as to the manner in which the law was to be administered in Birmingham, and that amendment he had taken care to retain, so that the measures were precisely in the same state now, as when, a few months ago, they passed the House of Lords.
The Earl of Wicklowasked, whether it had been ascertained, that the bills, or any of them, would not be resisted in another place?
The Marquess of Normanbyadded, that objection had been taken there to only one of the three bills, and that objection, he thought might be obviated.
Bills read a second time.

ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE.
The Lord Chancellorwished to re-introduce a measure which had received the sanction of the House during the last Session, and which had for its object to facilitate the administration of justice, by improving the Court of Exchequer, and establishing new Judges of Equity. Another bill, of considerable importance, which had been slopped in its progress, was for the establishment of County Courts; and a third, which had been prepared, though not brought in, was to assign to those local jurisdictions all matters in Bankruptcy and Insolvency. A fourth bill was for the amendment of the laws relating to Bankrupts.
Lord Broughamadmitted the value of the measures generally, and would not say more in the present stage than that he had brought himself, with difficulty, to consent to the appointment of one Vice-chancellor, but he could never consent to two Vice-chancellors.
Bills read a first time.

CORN-LAWS.
The Earl of Clancartypresented a petition from the county of Galway, signed by about 3,000 persons, in favour of the present Corn-laws, excepting as far as related to the taking of the averages. The noble Earl observed, that the petition had not been agreed to at a county meeting—one had been called, but it was so packed by the populace, that it was found impossible for the parties interested to give effect to their sentiments.
Earl Fitzwilliamremarked upon the statement of the noble Earl, that the
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meeting was so packed by the people, that the landlords and farmers could not have their own way. The people of Ireland were the eaters in Ireland, and the improvement wanting was, that the lower orders there, who now lived upon potatoes, should live upon corn, and they could not do so until the price was reduced. The price could not be reduced while the Corn-laws remained unaltered. Ireland was governed by an oligarchy more, perhaps, than any other country of the world; and it was this oligarchy that was interested in the maintenance of the Corn-laws, and in getting up petitions like the present.
Lord Fitzgeraldobserved, that the voice of the great majority of persons interested in the Corn-laws had been stifled at the meeting by means of packing. An oligarchy was the government of a few, but it was not the few in Ireland who were interested in the maintenance of the Corn-laws, but the many—the great body of the landlords and farmers of Ireland. It had been said, that great exaggerations had prevailed upon this question, but there was no exaggeration greater than to assert that the mass of landlords and tenants in Ireland formed an oligarchy.
Petition was laid upon the Table.

EMIGRATION.
Lord Broughamasked if there were any objection to produce copies of correspondence respecting the emigration of labourers from Ireland to the West Indies, and elsewhere? He had been informed, by persons of respectability, lately returned from the West Indies, that considerable abuse prevailed as to the carriage of free labourers from the coast of Africa to the West Indies, as well as other abuses respecting the emigration from Ireland to the same part of the world. How the fact might be, he did not pretend to state, but the correspondence, if produced, would show it. Of one thing he was quite sure—that the House ought to keep a jealous watch over this species of emigration, because it was so liable to abuse.
The Marquess of Normanbywished the noble and learned Lord to give notice of his motion, and in the mean time inquiries should be made.
Notice accordingly.

BOROUGH OF YARMOUTH.
The Earl of Winchilseawas anxious to have an

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opportunity of seeing the correspondence between Government and a gentleman of the name of Lacon, respecting some recent transactions in the borough of Yarmouth. The charge against the corporation was, that a certain number of constables, being voters, had been dismissed, in order that they might vote at the late election, and that on the following day they were re-appointed constables, and paid for their trouble. The borough seemed to have been put to a considerable expense, and the conduct of the magistrates, if the charge were true, had been most unconstitutional.
The Marquess of Normanbyhad not only no objection to the production of the correspondence, but was most desirous that it should be laid upon the Table. The noble Earl would find from it, that he was labouring under considerable misinformation. Mr. Lacon imagined that constables were disqualified as voters ex officio, but misapprehension seemed to have prevailed on the point. The men, as he was informed, without any bargain, had bonâ fide tendered their resignation, and no doubt had been afterwards reappointed. There had been, however, no understanding that they should be so reappointed, and having resigned, had received no salary. Therefore the borough of Yarmouth had not suffered at all in its funds.
The Earl of Wicklowobserved, that the constables thought themselves disqualified, and if the magistrates were of the same opinion, and had discharged them merely for the purpose of the election, the culpability on their part was as great, although they had acted under misapprehension of the law. If so, they were unworthy of their situations, and he wished to know what was the belief of the magistrates on the point?
Earl Fitzwilliam: How can the noble Marquess tell us what was the belief of the magistrates?
The Earl of Wicklow: Because the noble Marquess said he had made inquiries.
The Marquess of Normanbyrepeated, that he had not the slightest objection to the production of the correspondence, and the magistrates would thus be enabled to speak for themselves.
Adjourned.