Lords Sitting of 10 March 1840

MINUTES.
Bill. Read a first time;—Municipal Corporations (Ireland).
Petitions presented. By the Duke of Argyle, the Marquesses of Londonderry and Bute, the Earls of Galloway, and Aberdeen, from a number of places in Scotland, in favour of Non-Intrusion.—By the Karl of Clare, from Limerick, against the Importation of Foreign Flour into Ireland.—By the Earl of Clarendon, from Brookside, for the Repeal of the Corn-laws.

FROST, WILLIAMS AND JONES. NEWPORT PETITION.
Lord Teynhamstated, that in consequence of what fell from the noble Marquess last night, on the subject of a petition presented by him from Newport, praying for the pardon of Frost and his companions, he felt called upon to make one or two observations. First, as to the population of Newport, he found that in the last population returns it was stated at only 7,000. With respect to the petition, he had been informed that it was signed by five persons who were or had been town-councillors of Newport: undoubtedly one of these persons was the uncle of John Frost, who had resided all his life at Newport, and who had retired from business with an unimpeachable character. It was true that he had been taken for looking out of the window of his house at the mob, but Government did not think it advisable to prosecute him. The petition was in a public situation in the town, so that every one who wished might sign it. He understood it was intended to call a public meeting of the inhabitants during the Easter week, in order to give every person an opportunity of expressing his opinion on the subject. He was sure, that if there were the least chance of mercy being extended to these unhappy individuals, their Lordships would be the last persons to make any opposition to it.
The Marquess of Normanbywas sure their Lordships would think it quite unnecessary for him to add anything to what he said last night. The noble Lord must, he thought, be aware the petition did not, in any respect, merit the character he had given of it. He had no doubt been misled, and the petition would be regarded as coming from persons interested in the fate of those men; but it could never be considered as representing the feelings and opinions of the respectable inhabitants of Newport.
Subject at an end.

VACCINATION.
The Marquess of Lansdownerose to call the attention of their Lordships to a petition of an unusual nature, from a body of persona who did
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not frequently appear as petitioners; the petitioners were a very large number of the medical profession, who were desirous of calling their Lordships' attention to a subject, not only interesting in every view of public utility and expediency, but also interesting to many of their Lordships in their private capacity, and as it affected their domestic feelings. It related to the present state of vaccination in this country, and though signed by only a few persons bearing office in the Medical Society of London, it expressed the opinion of not less than 1,200 medical practitioners, who were desirous of calling attention to the fact, that the small-pox, so far from having diminished of late years, had been on the increase; and were also desirous of stating to their Lordships the opinion which, after much deliberation, they had formed on the subject, that the increase was owing, on the one hand, to the imperfect state of vaccination in many parts of the country; and, secondly, that it had spread and increased through the perseverance of persons, not connected with the medical profession, and not entitled to act in a medical capacity, in the practice of inoculation. The petitioners also stated, as an important fact connected with the subject, that there was a perfect identity between vaccination and the small pox, although the symptoms were different; and this (as we understood) had been proved by the inoculation of a cow with various matter, and the result was all the appearance of the disease that resulted from vaccination. It had been made a subject of complaint, that although a person had been vaccinated, yet, after the lapse of several years, there might be an attack of small pox; but this was not the case, in nearly the same proportion there was not a second attack of small pox after inoculation. It was also undoubtedly true, that very few deaths resulted from small-pox, which was taken subsequent to vaccination, for the disease always then appeared in a very mitigated form. The petitioners, however, submit, that no conclusion can be drawn against the theory of vaccination, but they state, that the imperfect means of vaccinating adopted in this country, through the licence given to persons who are not capable of forming an opinion on the subject, has been attended with many increasing evils; and in those particular places in which no vaccination had been

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adopted, there had been thousands of deaths in the course of a few years; and there was one city in the south of England where no less than five hundred persons had died of the small-pox in one year. The petitioners did not wish that this evil should be remedied by having recourse to those rigorous measures or despotic proceedings, which had been had recourse to in some countries in Europe—namely, a positive prohibition to inoculate with variola matter, and that some penalties should be imposed on those who did not take care that their children were regularly vaccinated. They suggested, that the House should consider how far it would be proper to prohibit persons from inoculating for the small-pox, such persons not being members of the medical profession, and, therefore, not influenced by those considerations which impelled the latter to abstain from doing so. They also recommended, that a great number of persons should be employed in vaccinating the poor of the country. He need not tell their Lordships that it was the duty of the higher classes of society to discountenance any practice which might be found to be annually productive of a great amount of misery and disease, and this could effectually be done by promoting this easy and simple remedy, which was calculated to mitigate and remove one of the greatest pests that ever inflicted humanity.
Lord Ellenboroughagreed with the noble Marquess, but suggested, that a short bill should be brought in, to enable poor-law guardians to make contracts for the vaccination of the poor. It was entirely a question of expense. Some medical gentleman vaccinated gratis for the poor; others, however, did not, and their charges were higher than those of the quacks who inoculated for the small-pox.
Lord Colchesterobserved, that he could testify that the poorer classes were not averse to vaccination, but the truth was, that they had not the means of getting it. In one district in Sussex, the board of guardians had provided the means of vaccination, and there had been no smallpox there at all.
The Marquess of Normanbyconsidered the subject so important, that he would cause every inquiry to be made, whether the evil would not be remedied by the measure suggested by the noble Baron
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opposite, and thus the good practice encouraged and the bad discouraged.
Petition read and laid on the Table.