Lord Broughamwished to ask a question of his noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack, relative to a bill of very great importance, which his noble and learned Friend had introduced into that House, and which stood for a second reading this evening. It was most important that a satisfactory understanding should prevail 924 with reference to that measure, because it was one respecting which a strong feeling was entertained by many of their Lordships. Objections had been raised to one of the clauses of that bill, and the ground of those objections had been stated when the measure was last before the House. Now, however he might feel the force of those objections, he believed, at the same time, that every noble Lord, and he spoke of those opposite as well as those on that side of the House, felt that it would be unpleasant, invidious, and most painful to debate such objections, if it could be avoided, or to discuss the measure more than was absolutely and indispensably necessary. He, wished, therefore, to ask his noble and learned Friend whether he was disposed to make such an alteration in the clause objected to as would prevent unpleasant discussion? Whether, supposing the noble Duke opposite, and others who agreed with him in his views of the subject, were disposed to allow the second reading of the bill to-night, as they did not object to its principle, his noble and learned Friend would have any objection to state, that between this time and the commitment of the bill, he would make such an alteration as that to which he had alluded?
§ The Lord Chancellortook it for granted, that some precedence would be allowed to Prince Albert. He should, therefore, propose, that power should be given to the Crown to allow the Prince to take precedence next after any Heir-apparent to the Throne.
§ The Lord Chancellorsaid, he was not prepared to go further.
Lord Broughamwas sorry that his noble and learned Friend was not prepared to go further than he had stated. At all events, it was clearly a case for committee. All were agreed, that the Prince should have some precedence, and it would be for the committee lo say what that precedence should be.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, nothing could be more satisfactory to him than the course proposed to be taken. He fully adopted the opinion of his noble and learned Friend opposite.
§ Viscount Melbournesaid, the best course would be for noble Lords to reserve their observations for the committee. It was very desirable that the bill should pass 925 through that House as speedily as possible; and that all unnecessary discussion should be avoided, as it must give rise to a great deal of uneasiness and embarrassment. But for the opposition of the noble Duke opposite, the bill would have been in a more forward state.
Lord Broughamsaid, that so far from wishing to retard the measure, he had no objection to meet to-morrow for the purpose of expediting it. They would thus avoid interfering with the motion of the right rev. Prelate (Exeter) on Monday.
The Marquess of Londonderrywhen this bill was last before the House, had put a question to the noble Viscount opposite, with respect to that clause of the bill which was objected to, and he now called the attention of the noble Viscount more distinctly to the subject, in order to get a direct and specific answer. The noble Viscount at that time stated to the House, and it would have gone forth to the country as a fact, if the matter had not been explained by the noble Viscount, in consequence of his question, that he had had communication with all the illustrious persons who were interested in the effect of that clause, and that they had offered no objection to such an enactment. Now, how did the fact stand? He demanded, whether the Heir-presumptive to the Throne was not more particularly interested in this matter than any other person; and he asked the noble Viscount, whether that illustrious individual had been consulted on the question? He must say that, as a Minister of the Crown, and the organ of her Majesty in that House, the noble Viscount had taken a very cool and off-hand course when he made such a declaration—certainly not founded on fact—seeing that the individual most interested in this matter had had no communication whatsoever made to him on the subject. He would remind the noble Viscount, that it was one thing to enable her Majesty to give precedence to Prince Albert over all their Lordships, over the Archbishop of Canterbury, and over all the Officers of State, but there was a great difference between doing that and conferring on her Majesty the power to grant precedence over the members of the Blood Royal—over all the illustrious Dukes—who, their Lordships could not forget, were the sons of George 3rd. When they considered what the country owed to her Majesty's Uncles, they ought to be the last persons who should be forgotten. 926 Was the House of Brunswick, he would ask, to be set aside in this off-hand way, by the noble Viscount coming down, and saying, "Oh, we have made a communication to all the Royal Dukes, and they have offered no objection to this proposition?" The noble Viscount had stated distinctly to the House that he had communicated with all the illustrious persons concerned. [Cries of "No, no."] He would be most sorry to state anything that had not taken place, but he had so understood the noble Viscount, and it had so gone forth to the world, and he was only anxious that the true state of the case should be known, because he was quite certain that the people of England went along with him. He wished the declaration of the noble Viscount to stand on record, and let the country judge of it. He had formerly stated, and should state again, that the Duke of Cumberland stood called to this Parliament by her Majesty's writ, and he would ask by what right any other person should take precedence of that illustrious individual.
Lord Broughambegged to interrupt the noble Marquess. If the noble Marquess had heard what fell from him, the noble Marquess must be aware that he had called for a postponement of the proceedings on the bill for the express purpose of avoiding debate.
The Marquess of LondonderryThe noble and learned Lord is always extremely ready to rise up and correct other people, but when others rise up to correct him, he does not receive it in good part.
Lord Broughamdid not rise to correct anything that fell from the noble Marquess, but merely to explain what he thought the noble Marquess might not have been aware of. A conversation had taken place, and it was expressly agreed on both sides to take a certain course, in order to put an end to discussion, if possible. Perhaps such a communication would be made on Monday as would render all discussion unnecessary.
The Marquess of Londonderryrequested their Lordships to judge between him and the noble and learned Lord. He rose in consequence of what had fallen from the noble Viscount, who had got up and charged the noble Duke behind him with being the cause of delay in proceeding with this measure. The noble Viscount said, "I intended to do so and so, only the noble Duke interfered." Now, he 927 wanted to show that it was not the noble Duke who was the cause of the delay; but that it arose from the noble Viscount having come down in his off-hand and cool manner and made a statement to that House which was entirely foreign to the fact. He, therefore, took the earliest moment to guard against the possibility of that statement remaining uncontradicted. He would reserve what he had further to say until Monday; but as the clause giving the Crown the power of unlimited precedence stood in the bill, and as the principle was recognised upon a second reading, he could not allow it to take place without entering his protest against it. He was certain that the country was with him on that point.
§ Viscount Melbournestated, that in the observations which he had made on a former evening, he had made no allusion to any communication with the King of Hanover.
The Marquess of Londonderrythought the Ministers of the Crown had done that which was extremely reprehensible, and had made as strange a proposal as ever came to the knowledge of that House.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonthought that he had formerly stated his reasons for the course which he had taken with respect to this bill. The question had been brought forward by surprise, and it was proper that the House should have a fair opportunity for considering it. He had refrained from discussion on a former occasion; and he conceived that the noble Viscount might have avoided bringing any charge against him in the present instance. The noble Viscount ought to have taken care to give the bill its real title, as it was not solely a bill for the naturalization of Prince Albert. The fault of the delay, then, was not his, but the fault of others. Under these circumstances, it was his duty to give the House an opportunity of considering its merits. He was not at all desirous to speak that evening on the subject. The very instant the proposition was made by his noble and learned Friend that the bill should be read a second time, and committed on Monday, he had agreed to it.
§ The Lord Chancellorsaid, that he should, on Monday, move for the suspension of the standing orders, in order to avoid the further delay which a compliance with them would create.
§ Bill read a second time.