REGISTRATION OF ARMS (IRELAND). (Hansard, 14 April 1840)

The Earl of Glengall
rose to call the attention of their Lordships to the subject of the registration of arms in Ireland, and to the laws connected with it, and in so doing he should take the liberty of asking the Noble Marquess opposite (Normanby) whether it were the intention of the Government to propose any alterations of the law now existing on that subject? He was not desirous of getting up a debate on the state of tranquillity in Ireland, and he would, therefore, in the remarks which he intended to make, confine himself exclusively to the possession of arms by improper characters. He would not trouble their Lordships at any great length as the subject had previously been before them, and no doubt they were well acquainted with it. It was a fact perfectly notorious 1088 that there was a great quantity of unregistered arms in the possession of persons of the worst description. This fact was so universally known and admitted, that no proof was necessary on the point. It was admitted on all hands, and by no parties more unequivocally than by the magistrates and gentlemen who were examined by the committee of their Lordships, up stairs, during the course of the last session. To prevent this great and alarming evil a bill was introduced into the lower House of Parliament by Lord Stanley, when his Lordship was Secretary for Ireland. The object of that measure was to tranquillise the country. But notwithstanding the necessity for some change, and the beneficial change proposed by Lord Stanley's bill, a great outcry was raised against it in Ireland. This bill, either by the dissolution of Parliament or the demise of the Crown, or some similar cause, fell to the ground. No measure, consequently, was adopted to remedy the evil which existed, and which had increased to a frightful extent. To prove to their Lordships that the evil had not been exaggerated, he would read a return of the number of outrages which had occurred from the 1st of January, 1836, to the 1st of January, 1838, which arose solely from the possession of arms by improper characters, and which were immediately and directly connected with the bad state of the registration:— Robbery of arms, 238; firing upon persons, 70; firing upon dwelling-houses, 23; and attacking houses, 411. This was the general return throughout Ireland. In some counties, of course, the evil was greater than in others. In Tipperary during fourteen months previous to February last, there had been 185 cases of outrage arising from the improper possession of arms. In other places the cases were very numerous. Cases of outrage in different counties of Ireland, originating from the improper state of the law on the subject of the registration of arms, were unfortunately numerous. The evil had in a great measure been increased by the loose and careless manner in which the punishments for carrying and having arms on the person were regarded. The custom of carrying arms had been allowed to go on to such a length that it was almost considered legal. This subject also was most worthy of the attention of the Government. He was not desirous of making this a party question, but 1089 there was a stringent necessity to alter the law, to give security to the well-disposed inhabitants of the country. He would therefore ask the noble Marquess if it were the intention of the Government to introduce any law on the subject? The noble Earl moved at the same time for returns of the number and expense of the police, and of rewards offered, and outrages committed in Ireland, since 1838.

The Marquess of Normanby
had no objection to the production of the returns moved for by the noble Earl. They were connected with a subject which had engaged the very serious attention of the Government. During his residence in Ireland several places had been submitted to him for a more strict registration of arms in that country. He could not at present say that it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to alter the law connected with the subject; but he would at the same time state that he had been in communication with a learned Gentleman connected with the law department of Ireland, and that he intended to correspond on the subject with his noble Friend, the present Viceroy. When he had done so, he should then be able lo give a more explicit answer as to the intention of the Government. As to the returns which the noble Earl had read, showing the number of outrages which had been committed from the improper and illegal possession of arms; regretting as he did their amount, he could not refrain from congratulating himself that their number had diminished, and was still diminishing. The returns read by the noble Earl only brought down the cases to 1838; now he would read the number which had since occurred. In the three first months of 1838, there were 122 cases; in the whole of 1839, there were seventy-three; and in 1840, there had only been sixty-one. So, though the number was deplorably great, he was rejoiced to say that the outrages were diminishing.

The Earl of Wicklow
observed, that the noble Lord had not stated under what circumstances it was that the bill which was introduced for the purpose of remedying the evil was not proceeded with after being allowed to go so far as the second reading.

The Marquess of Normanby
said, there were certain reasons which had induced the Government, on mature consideration, to abandon the measure.

The Marquess of Westmeath
said, that 1090 under the present law persons were obliged to register their arms at the quarter sessions, which left it open to the ruffians of the country to consider whether the houses of those persons were in such a state as to give them any chance of seizing the arms which were so advertised. He thought, therefore, it was one of the first duties of the Government to consider this subject, and make the necessary alteration in the present law.

§ Lord Monteagle
said, that the subject was one in which they ought not to act in haste or without deliberation. The registration law had not served as a protection to the peaceably-disposed inhabitants of the country, but had produced an entirely contrary effect, and therefore when any change was about to be proposed, they ought to take that circumstance into consideration. A false and unfair inference had been drawn from the returns read by the noble Earl. From his division of the subject, each outrage was divided into three separate crimes— 1st, being in possession of unregistered arms— 2nd, attacking the house— and 3rd,deprivingtheown-ers of their arms. And this, of course, swelled the list to a great amount.

The Earl of Glengall
assured the noble Lord and their Lordships that this was not the case. The latter were taken from the returns of the stipendary magistrates, and the cases were placed seriatim. He wished, indeed, that the fact had been as represented by the noble Lord; but he could assure the House that the gross number consisted of separate and distinct cases. Nothing could be worse than the state of some parts of the country. The condition of the northern parts of Tipperary was fearful. Under such circumstances, he trusted that the Government would take upon themselves the introduction of some measure to remedy the evils existing.