Lords Sitting of 2 May 1839

MINUTES,
Petitions presented. By the Dukes of NORFOLK, CLEVELAND, and RICHMOND, the Earls of ROSEBERY, CLARE, ZETLAND, Lords PORTMAN, HATHEATON, and BROUGHAM, from a very great number of places, for a Uniform Penny Postage.—By Lord BROUGHAM, from a place in Argylshire, against any further Grant to the Scotch Church; from Perth, for limiting the Hours of Labour in Factories; and from another place, for allowing Soldiers to attend places of Worship of their own Persuasion.—By the Marquess of BUTF, from one place, for Church Extension in Scotland.—By the Earl of ZETLAND, from the Union of Thirsk, for the Amendment of the New Poor-law Act.

THE SLAVE-TRADE—ANTIGUA.
Lord Broughambegged leave to ask whether the noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty would have any objection to the production of the correspondence that had taken place between Lieutenant Bosanquet, of the Leveret, and Count Antonio di Mello and the Marquess Richetti on the subject of the African slave-trade, He ap-
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prehended there could not be the slightest objection to the production of these papers. For one of the names he had mentioned he had the greatest respect and admiration, for the Marquess Richetti had nobly given up the office which he held in the Portuguese Government, rather than be a party to the policy of the Portuguese Government, which he begged to say was the policy of conniving at the African slave trade, whilst they were openly entering into engagements for its suppression. His conduct in that House had been commented on by the Members of the Portuguese Parliament, most properly exercising their privilege, as he should exercise his, and they had expressed the greatest indignation at his calling it a feeble Government. Now, he apprehended that these censures in part arose from incorrect translations of his speech; but he would now repeat that, were Portugal a hundred times as strong as she is, she would still be a feeble government; it was, supported by us—it had no stamina of its own—and what he complained of was, that, our just weight and influence had not been sufficiently exercised to compel them to discharge their duty. He begged to call their Lordships' attention to facts. Count Antonio di Melho, of whose conduct he spoke with regret, for he was the member of a most respectable family, had gone out as governor of Mozambique in a slaver, clearing out from Lisbon; and the vessel instead of returning there, had carried over 600 slaves to Rio and Cuba, for the profit of the governor whom it had taken out, There had never been such a gross thing done, and yet the governor was never punished for it. It was true he was no longer a governor, but whether he had been dismissed for that he knew not. In fact, a duty of seven dollars was levied upon every slave-ship, and yet the Portuguese Government called that prohibiting the slave-trade, while they were actually deriving a revenue from it. He had been informed that six months ago the Commodore was fitted out with a double set of papers and double logs, the one pointing out their real destination, the coast of Mozambique, the other pretending that the voyage was from Lisbon to Angola. At Mozambique that vessel had been fitted out and 600 slaves taken aboard; the vessel could not sail from that coast until the morning, and as the slaves who had been shipped could

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not be lodged on shore for the night, and there was not sufficient force to keep them in subjection, they, the whole 600 were compelled to pass the night under the hatches, and when his informant went on board the next morning and ordered the hatches to be opened, a sight presented itself which, experienced as they were in atrocities of that execrable trade, was enough afresh to harrow up one's feelings, and almost make the blood curdle in one's veins. The vessel had been anchored off the coast at night, and in a tropical climate these 600 wretches were kept under hatches all night. In the morning no less than sixty were found stretched dead, having been suffocated for want of air, and twenty or thirty more were in so desperate a state that they died before the ship was a league from the shore. Here were upwards of eighty individuals murdered, cruelly murdered, in one night by that that Government, for who did it by another did it by himself; and that Government which levied a tax of seven dollars on every slave-ship had been guilty of that murder. These were the facts which he had thought it his duty, at the earliest moment after they had come to his knowledge, to lay before their Lordships and before the country, to the useful and wholesome end that they might be inquired into in the proper quarter, and that the proper authorities, they who had made treaties with Portugal by which Portugal had bound itself to put down the slave-trade, should demand an immediate explanation upon the subject. He believed the facts he had stated were not exaggerated, and, if necessary, he had no objection to give his author's name. With these observations he had only to ask the noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty if there would be any objection to the production of Lieutenant Bosanquet's correspondence on these matters.
The Earl of Mintowas not aware that there would be any objection. At the same time, he would be glad to have the opportunity of consulting with his noble Friend, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, before he gave a decided answer. The noble and learned Lord was possibly aware, that a notice had some time since been given by his noble Friend, of his intention to lay some papers on the Table of the House of Commons, connected with the slave-trade, and to found, upon those papers, a measure of a vigorous character, calculated to
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enforce the obligations of the treaty, which Portugal itself had not thought fit to observe. It was not at all improbable, that the paper now referred to might form part of those to be produced by his Noble Friend. Under such circumstances, the noble and learned Lord would probable delay making his motion till he saw what papers were produced by his noble Friend. He would say that, as far as his recollection served him, the account of the transactions given by the noble and learned Lord would be found to be pretty correct. The noble and learned Lord had said, the slave-trade had been connived at very openly—he might have used a stronger word than connived. The active and zealous conduct of Lieut. Bosanquet had been the subject of great complaint on the part of the Portuguese. When those complaints had been received, the answer sent out to them wee, that as soon as Lieutenant Bosanquet returned to this country, every opportunity would be taken to promote him for his conduct.
lord Broughamwas exceedingly glad to hear the statement which had just been made by the noble Lord. He hoped the measure about to be taken would indeed be a vigorous measure. The more vigorous it was, the better pleased with it he should be, and the more heartily would he support it. It had been said by some, that it was useless, however, to talk of abolishing the slave-trade, until they put an end to slavery. He differed on this subject very much with Mr. Buxton. He thought a very good encouragement might be given to the abolition of the trade, by admitting first into the colonies, and next into this country, all sugars made by free labourers, and excluding all that was made by slaves. There had been no English slave-trade since the bill, making it a felony; but it was more than twenty years after that, before their Lordships abolished slavery in the English colonies. He would just say, that he by no means agreed in the doctrine, that it was not right to send armed cruisers to take into custody pirates, and persons who were carrying on this horrible crime. Having stated, on a former occasion, his great admiration of the conduct of the Assembly at Antigua, in abolishing slavery, before they were even compelled, it was now his painful duty to say, that he found the present House of Assembly had taken a great deal away form the credit of their predecessors, who had acted

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so admirably, and whose conduct he had had occasion so much to approve of. They had done all in their power to take away from the negro his political rights. They had raised the electoral qualification from 20 l. currency to 50 l., the effect of which was, to disfranchise every negro in the island of Antigua. This tended in no way to increase his confidence in colonial legislation. In his opinion, steps ought to be taken to repeal the law, and if the legislature of that country refused to repeal that law, their Lordships ought to interfere, and repeal it for them. The noble and learned Lord concluded by moving for the production of a copy of the Act of Antigua, in reference to raising the qualification.
The Marquess of Normanbythought it would be better that the noble Lord should give notice of that motion, as then he should be enabled to state what course had been pursued before he held his present office.
Motion withdrawn, and notice given.

JAMAICA.
Lord Broughampresented a petition from the Jamaica merchants in London, against the bill introduced into the House of Commons for suspending the constitution of that country. He had been intrusted with this petition, in consequence of the course he had adopted on the subject of Canada. He was not acquainted with the merits of the case, but he must confess, that the conduct of the Assembly of Jamaica had not been such as he could approve of. However, it was another question, whether the course they had pursued rendered it necessary that the constitution of the island should be abolished for any length of time.
Viscount St. Vincentsupported the prayer of the petition. He considered the measure one of the hardest and most uncalled-for that had ever been brought forward.
The Marquess of Normanbydid not think it necessary then to say anything upon the subject of that measure; the noble and learned Lord, however, appeared, as at present advised, disposed to give the measure his opposition; but the Jamaica documents were on the Table of the House, and if the noble and learned Lord looked into them, he would find it impossible to justify the conduct of the Assembly. He was so convinced of the right and justice of his case, that he should
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be prepared to meet even the noble and learned Lord on every point, if indeed the noble and learned Lord then found himself in a condition to differ from all those with whom he had always agreed on these subjects.
Lord Brougham—Oh, no, not all; only a few of them. He had had communication with many of those, with whom he had always agreed, and who did not differ from him on this subject. The noble Marquess was mistaken if he supposed that he was not acquainted with the contents of the Jamaica documents. He had already stated, that he highly disapproved of the conduct of the Assembly, and he only waited to see the provisions of the bill. If he found those provisions to be detrimental to the rights of the negroes, he would certainly oppose it.
The Marquess of Normanbywould be perfectly ready to meet the noble and learned Lord on that point. It was stated, that the bill would have the effect of postponing the enjoyment by the negroes of the elective franchise; but when the bill came before the House, he should be in a condition to prove, that it would not defer these rights one moment beyond the time at which they were able to enjoy them.
Lord Broughamsaid, if the bill was so good a thing for the negroes, why not extend it to Barbadoes, and the other colonies?
The Marquess of Normanbysaid the reason was obvious. The other colonies had not refused to legislate.
Lord Brougham—Then the bill is a matter of punishment, and not of bouuty and favour—and he was bound to oppose it, as he had done the Canada Bill, because it was a penal act. It was sent, according to the noble Marquess's confession, for the mischief of the whites, and not for the advantage of the negroes.
The Marquess of Normanbysaid, that he had never declared that the immediate object of the bill was to benefit the negroes, but that it would have that tendency. The object of that bill was, to meet an obstacle which had arisen.
Petition laid on the Table.