Lords Sitting of 25 March 1839

MINUTES.
Bills. Read a second time:—Tithe Composition Arrears (Ireland).—Read a third time:—Duke of Wellington's Estate.
Petitions presented. By the Bishop of BANGOR, from, several places in that See, against applying the Surplus Reve-

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nues of the Bishopric of St. Asaph's otherwise than to Amending poor Livings in the United See.—By the Earl of CAMPERDOWN, and Lord BROUGHAM, from several places, for a Uniform Penny Postage.—By Lord BROUGHAM, and Viscount MELBOURNE, from several places, against the Beer-laws.—By Lord BROUGHAM, from a great number of places, for the Immediate and Total Repeal of the Corn-laws, and all other Restrictions on Free Trade.—By the Archbishop of CANTERBURY, from Blackburn, and a place in Sussex, against any plan of National Education not founded on the Scriptures.—By the Earl of ABERDEEN, from several places, and Lord WHARNCLIFFE, from several places, for Church Extension in Scotland.—By the Earls of BANDON, RODEN, and TANKERVILLE, against the Repeal of the Corn-laws.—By Viscount MELBOURNE, from Ceylon, for Steam Communication between that place and Madras.—By the Bishop of CHESTER, from nine Ecclesiastical bodies in the Diocese of Bangor, for Amending the Act 7th William 4th, chap.7.—By the Earl of CHARLEVILLE, from the Magistrates of Queen's County, for Inquiry into the Outrages lately perpetrated there.—By Lord LIFFORD, from some place, for the Repeal of part of the Poor-law Act.

GOVERNMENT OF IRELAND.
The Earl of Charlevillepresented a Petition from certain magistrates of the Queen's county, praying that their Lordships would adopt measures to secure protection for the lives and properties of the loyal inhabitants of Ireland, which he moved should be referred to the Committee on the state of Ireland.
Lord Rossmoresaid, he did not attach the same importance to the petition as the noble Earl. In the first place, it was signed by only some of the magistrates, although the county had been canvassed for signatures to it. No one could doubt that it had been got up for the purpose of backing the proceedings at the meeting at Tullamore. But the allegations made at that meeting had been amply refuted at a general county meeting, at which the high sheriff presided in person; and, moreover, most of the magistrates who had signed the petition confessed that they had taken advantage of a meeting convened for the laudable purpose of detecting crime, to turn it into a party meeting. These assertions were borne out by letters which he had received, one of which was from a magistrate of forty-two years standing, who said he never knew the country in such a state of peace and quietness as at the present moment.
The Earl of Charlevillesaid, at the meeting alluded to by the noble Lord, it had been determined, after due deliberation, to petition both Houses of Parliament and to address her Majesty on this subject. The petition and address were immediately prepared, and some time was required to procure signatures to it. Of the sixty-five magistrates who had signed
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the requisition for the meeting, many were not present when it was held, and it became necessary to apply to them for their signatures. That was all the application that had been made.
Petition laid on the Table.

DUKE OF WELLINGTON'S ESTATE.
Viscount Duncannon,in moving the third reading of the Duke of Wellington's Estate Bill, said it was intended by this bill to enable the noble Duke to make a sufficient settlement on his eldest son, in the event of his marriage; and also to preserve in his family as an heir-loom for ever, certain most valuable and costly ornaments and other presents which had been made to him by the different potentates of Europe.
Lord Broughamwas glad that the noble Viscount had clearly stated the merits of the bill, which would pass as a matter of course, because the Legislature in agreeing to the bill by which a certain annuity was secured to the Duke of Wellington evidently intended not merely to give the noble Duke an opportunity to jointure his own widow, but to enable him to jointure the Marchioness of Douro, should the Marquess of Douro marry during the life of his father. As to the other part of the bill, which secured as an heir-loom the jewels and other valuables that had been presented to the Duke of Wellington, it was on the part of the Duke an extremely generous procedure, for, it was in his power to sell for many thousand pounds those valuables, and to make what use he pleased of the money.
Bill read a third time.

CORN-LAWS—EXPLANATION.
Lord Broughamsaid, he had to present petitions from certain unhappy persons, who either were or ought to be confined in lunatic asylums in different parts of the island, because, according to what the noble Viscount near him (Melbourne) had laid down the other night, those who were in favour of a repeal of the Corn-laws, must, of course, needs be in a fit condition for confinement in such places. Accordingly the inhabitants of Great Torrington, and other lunatics, had signed the petitions he held in his hand, and prayed for a total repeal of all restrictions. Another petition which he had was from the inhabitants of Great and Little Wolston, and another place in Lancashire,

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who only prayed that a strict inquiry might be instituted on this subject, and who therefore were only verging on a condition to call for confinement in a lunatic asylum.
Viscount Melbournesaid, that his observation was applied to those who stated, that there should be an immediate repeal, not only of all duties on corn, but also of all other prohibitive and protective duties at once, without further consideration.
Petitions laid on the Table.

CANADIAN PRISONERS.
Lord Broughamrose to move for a series of returns connected with the Canadian prisoners now in Newgate, of which he had given notice on Friday night.
The Marquess of Normanbydid not think, that the returns ought to be laid before the House while the case of the prisoners was still under the consideration of a court of law.
Lord Broughamthought there was something in the objection, and would not press his motion. There were, however, other returns which he thought might be supplied—namely, returns of prisoners tried since the 1st of November, 1837, the result of those trials, and the sentences that had been passed. He wished now to state, that he had been informed, that certain other persons had been brought to this country from Canada, who did not belong to the same class of prisoners as those who were now confined in Newgate. Those parties to whom he alluded had been actually, as he was informed, tried and convicted in Canada; they had been brought over to this country under the Act of 1st of Victoria, and had since been sent to New South Wales. His objection to this course of proceeding was, first, that the amnesty was intended to extend even to persons who were taken with arms in their hands. Those persons had escaped altogether, and, that being so, he could not see the justice of punishing individuals who were much less guilty. These were cases to which he thought mercy might, with much grace and propriety, be extended. He must, in the next place, protest against treating those people who were political offenders, if they were to be sent to New South Wales, as they treated common highwaymen, housebreakers, and thieves, by sending them away without any distinction, discrimination, or classification in convict ships. It
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had been the policy of the wisest and most humane states in every age to draw a distinction in the punishment of political and common offenders, and justly so. When a common felon found that men of a better situation in life were for a political offence treated in the same way as himself, the effect was, that it raised the felon in his own estimation, and prevented his feeling that proper level of shameful position to which his offence ought, and which it was the object of the penal law, to bring him in the eyes of the public. He did not wish to revive the controversy on the subject, but be could not avoid expressing a hope, that he had been misinformed in this respect, but if he bad not been misinformed, that the Government would pay some attention to the principle for which he contended.
The Marquess of Normanbysuggested, that even though there might be no objection to the returns, it was much more convenient that notice should be given. With regard to the other question put by the noble and learned Baron, although he had given no orders himself of the nature alluded to touching other convicts, he would make inquiry into the matter. As to the first return mentioned, the objection was, that the prisoners were now waiting under proceedings of the legal tribunals of this country, and he apprehended that generally there must be an objection to the production by the Government of the opinions of the law officers of the Crown.
Lord Broughamsaid, generally speaking, that objection was valid, but in the present instance it did not apply, inasmuch as the opinions of the Attorney and Solicitor-General had already been shortly furnished to the House, as well as the opinion, in extenso, of the Attorney-General of the island of Bermuda.
The Marquess of Normanbyreplied, that he believed the production of those opinions had been absolutely necessary.
Notice of a motion for the following day given.