The Marquess of Westmeath, in moving for the additional papers relating to the investigation held at Mullingar, before John Brooks, Esq., said, he had given notice of a motion respecting the election for the county of Westmeath, which he had determined to bring forward to-day, whether the noble Marquess at the head of the Irish Government were in the House or not, "That these papers be laid on the Table." There were forty-eight pages of evidence with remarks appended.
The Marquess of Normanbywas not aware what the papers were, that the noble Marquess had alluded to, but he dared say there would be no objection to their production.
The Marquess of Westmeathstill thought it his duty to make the statement. The evidence he had stated was contained in forty-eight pages, and the paper appended to it was a judicial opinion on the evidence. A noble Lord had last night said, that the easiest way to dispose of a case was to put aside all evidence, and it would appear in his case the commissioner had passed over the whole of the evidence, and had brought in his name in a manner wholly unjustifiable. He said, in the first place, that the Marquess of Westmeath did not attend this investigation; he then said, that he was directed to hold an investigation into certain circumstances which took place at Mullingar. In the first place, he found it necessary to say, he had never made any charge on that subject; in December, 1837, a certain statement was made before the magistrates of the county of Westmeath, respecting the matter to which those papers related, when the chief constable said, he could give the magistrates no information; he consequently wrote to Lord Morpeth, asking leave for Mr. Rowan to communicate to him the information required. He got no answer to this letter. In June he called the attention of their Lordships, and shortly after received a letter from Mr. Drummond, stating that his letter had been sent to Lord Morpeth, that it had subsequently been mislaid and that search was making for it; but what would their Lordships think, when he told them that those identical papers, which could not be found on the 11th of December, were found in the hands of a political club at Mullingar, and 602 had been inspected by four Roman Catholics. And, nearly a year after this, the Secretary was anxious to make him believe they were lost. The circumstances were certainly not such as Mr. Drummond had stated them to be, but it appeared that in September, Mr. Drummond had a long interview with Mr. Sheil, and now he had something to say respecting the conduct of Government. Mr. Rowan and the constabulary force had received the thanks of the Lord Lieutenant through Colonel Shaw Kennedy and Mr. O'Donoghue, for their good conduct at this election. Now, what was the conduct of the Lord Lieutenant towards these officers, to whom they had returned their thanks? These officers had thought it their duty to make a representation against the conduct of two persons whom the Lord Lieutenant was pleased to protect. He did not wonder at this, because one of these persons had been appointed a magistrate against his expressed opinion. The Lord Lieutenant was thus in some measure implicated by that appointment, be was committed to it, and it was necessary to see if he could not justify it. Now, what was the course the Government took? Mr. Daglaseau, who was the chief-constable, received the order at his station in the county of Louth to go to Dublin on the Monday: he went there on the Tuesday. On the Wednesday he saw Colonel Shaw Kennedy—set off for Mullinger on the Thursday, not having received any information respecting the investigation, and on the Monday that investigation took place. What was the mode adopted at this investigation? The Government positively put their own officers on trial, and not the persons charged with misdemeanour of the officers of the Government. In consequence of Mr. Daglaseau objecting to this course, he was distinctly told by the Counsel on the opposite side that he was to consider himself on his trial. His Counsel then demanded that the answers of the gentlemen to the charges which had been brought against them should be furnished him. Mr. Daglaseau was not furnished with them, the chairman, saying, that it was not at that stage of the proceeding that that application should be made. The only opportunity that Mr. Daglaseau had for looking at these replies had been when they were sent down to him at his station at Loath, at which time he was not 603 suffered to copy them, but was ordered to send them back by the orderly dragoon who had brought them. He was put on his trial for exceeding his duty, and no opportunity was afforded him to rebut the charges. Now, it was mentioned at the head of the evidence—before the evidence was gone into—at the very commencement of the minutes, that counsel on behalf of Mr. Daglaseau having stated, that that gentleman was not in possession of copies of the replies made by these magistrates to the charges brought against them, such copies were furnished to him by direction of the court; such was not the case. These documents had been refused them, and yet this statement was made in order to make the proceeding appear less unfair. When Mr. Daglaseau was furnished with these copies does not appear. They may have been furnished him subsequently but certainly not at the commencement of the proceedings. He would read the report of the trial from the short-hand writer's notes, which he intended subsequently to move for, so that if he committed any mistake the noble Marquess would have an opportunity of correcting it. He did not understand what right the Lord Lieutenant had to institute investigations of this kind—he seemed to take authority in his own hands, like a third Daniel, to come to a very wise decision. He would not go further into the subject until the papers were laid before the House; and he would only mention a part of the investigation, which bore a personal relation to himself, that there was never seen anything so unfair. A Mr. Egan, Crown prosecutor, had been asked whether he (Lord Westmeath) was not a member of the Liberal Club in the county, when the Liberal Club had never been mentioned during the course of the investigation? Their Lordships after some hard swearing, would he surprised to hear that he never was a member of a Liberal Club in Ireland. He believed that the term liberal was used by a band of persons whose only object was to place the whole of Ireland under the dominion of the Roman Catholics. It was true that previous to the passing of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill, being of opinion that the representation of Ireland was too much of a family concern—that he was the member of a club called the Independent Club, the members of which were associated together for the purpose of making head against such a system of 604 representation. Matters, however, in Ireland, were now changed. The Irish Reform Bill, and the Roman Catholic Relief Bill had passed, and the Roman Catholics could not any longer complain of being excluded, and therefore, since then, that club had been broken up. He did not believe, that he had attended that club more than twice, and yet for that he was to be accused of having changed his principles, trusting that the House would pardon him for having occupied so much of its time, he would conclude by moving the motion of which he had given notice.
The Marquess of Normanbydid not complain of the want of candour on the part of the noble Marquess, because his former experience of the manner in which the noble Marquess usually brought the subject forward, prevented him from doing so. But he complained of its being brought forward as it had been with reference to the interests of truth, as concerned in the present investigation. There could be no doubt that the noble Marquess's intention was to state that which would lead their Lordships to a just and fair conclusion; but he did not believe that any other person, with the exception of the noble Marquess, would have brought themselves to believe the facts which he had stated. Now, what were the facts of the case? Why, the papers had not been printed more than a week, and yet the noble Marquess, without giving him the slightest notice, or referring him to a single document, brought this question forward in spite of his communication to him, that he was not aware of the facts connected with the subject; and that he had had no opportunity whatever of communicating with his noble Friend, the Secretary for Ireland. He had only arrived from Ireland last night; and until that afternoon, he had not the slightest knowledge of any intention on the part of the noble Marquess to bring the motion forward. He could not take upon himself to allow the publication of these papers, without inquiring how far they bore on the investigation of the question. If the noble Marquess would now withdraw his motion, and give notice of his intention to bring it forward on a future day, in order that he might have an opportunity of communicating with Ireland, then he would tell the noble Marquess whether he would or would not assent to his motion; and when he came forward, to meet the noble Mar- 605 quess, he should be ready to go, point by point, into the whole of the case. He had no desire of concealment—he was anxious that his decision on the whole case should be before their Lordships. Indeed, he had intended himself to have moved for it; and he had now no objection to assent to that part of the motion of the noble Marquess, and he would see what further part he could assent to when he had had sufficient time to make inquiries on the subject. He thought, that it was impossible to attribute that importance to the matter which the noble Marquess thought it entitled to—it arose out of the excitement of an election. He thought, that no party were entirely free from blame, but no party required further notice to be taken of it than the intimation of his opinion. When he told the House that it was six months since he had looked into the papers, he thought the House would take a different view from that of the noble Marquess, as to the fairness of calling for the papers at the present moment, especially when he had told the noble Marquess, that if he would only give notice, he would be glad to adopt any course that would be most convenient. He thought the appearance of the benches of that House did not say much for the importance of the subject the noble Marquess had brought forward. He pledged himself to prove, when time had been given him, to look into the papers, that Mr. Brooke was a most honourable man, and that the insinuations of the noble Marquess, that Mr. Brooke had been influenced by a desire to look to the Government for support, were totally unwarranted, and unjustifiable. He thought the insinuations of the noble Marquess would lower him in the esteem of that House and the country, and he defied him to prove them. He would also defy the noble Marquess to prove the statements that he had made against Mr. Drummond. That gentleman held a public office, and he must tell the noble Marquess, that he had feelings as well as himself. He did not believe, that the conduct pursued by the noble Marquess—the unwarrantable and unjustifiable course he had pursued, would have been adopted by any other noble Lord in that House. He would not impute motives to the noble Marquess, but the noble Marquess had ideas of duty very different from the generality of men. As the noble Marquess had alluded to Mr. Sheil, the ma- 606 gistrate, and had stated, that he (Lord Normanby) ought to have been impeached for appointing Mr. Sheil, he would just advert to a letter from the magistrates of Westmeath to that gentleman, but before he did so, he would say, that he believed him to be a most excellent and efficient magistrate, and that he had never seen any reason whatever to regret his appointment. The letter to which he would advert, from the magistrates of Westmeath, stated, that they were convinced he had never sat drinking in a public-house, and that his character was perfectly free from all such imputations. He had begun by stating, that he would not answer the noble Marquess now, but he should have no objection to do so when he had all the facts and details before him.
The Earl of Wicklowwas not surprised at the anxiety of his noble Friend to bring forward the present subject, because, in the papers before the House severe accusations were made against him. He wished for an explanation on one point, which was, how it happened that the Council appointed by the noble Marquess opposite (Normanby) to go into the country to investigate the matter, had not made any report? In his opinion, the papers furnished would be of no value without a report, and he hoped, that the noble Marquess would adopt some means of ascertaining the truth of the documents.
The Marquess of Normanbysaid, it was probable that Mr. Brooke, the commissioner, was of the same opinion as he himself was—that the whole was a very trivial matter—that the only thing in the shape of a charge which did or could affect Mr. Sheil's character was done away with. He suspected that Mr. Brooke thought it was not necessary, under the circumstances, to make any report, and perhaps, when the whole of the papers were laid upon the table, their Lordships would be of a similar opinion as Mr. Brooke and himself as to the very trivial nature of this affair. That this was the case in his opinion, might perhaps be some little excuse to their Lordships for his not being able, at the distance of six months, and without notice, to enter into dates and details with perfect accuracy.
Lord Hollandthought, if the noble Earl felt surprised that Mr. Brooke had not made a report, his astonishment would extend to the whole proceedings of Parliament, for a great number of the Com- 607 mittees, both of that, and the other House of Parliament, had only reported the evidence, and not made any particular report upon the facts. He felt bound to deprecate the motion of the noble Marquess, on account of its being brought forward without notice.
§ Lord Cloncurrysaid, that not to report was not only the best thing the learned Gentleman could do, but it was almost the only thing he could do. Circumstances, such as occur in every election room, came out in evidence before him, which could not be reported without conveying an unfavourable impression against the humble individuals concerned in them.
The Marquess of Westmeaththought that the circumstances of which the noble Baron talked so lightly, constituted, in reality, a very serious case; the magistrates were grievously insulted, and the chief constable was spit upon from head to foot. The noble Marquess had appeared to wish to fix upon him the charge of desiring to convey to their Lordships an impression of an unfavourable nature against certain public men. Now, as regarded Mr. Drummond, he had not stated anything of which he was not prepared to bring forward what he conceived to be satisfactory proof. He was most unwilling to enter into charges against the absent; but that Mr. Drummond was not a member of their Lordships' House, and consequently could not be there to defend himself, was not a reason why he should abstain from doing his duty in that House. He was not in a condition to know that the noble Marquess was in town, and could not therefore give him notice; but he had already given notice to the House of his intention, and he was obliged therefore to bring the matter on. With respect to the testimony of the Westmeath magistrates, he would only observe that Mr. Sheil was never accused of drinking in a public-house, except in the newspapers, in which it was said that he (the Marquess of Westmeath) made a statement to that effect in that House. Now, he distinctly declared that he never said anything about drinking in a public-house; he said that Mr. Sheil had been found in a public-house, and what he stated was true; and moreover, he believed that if it had not been for interference on the part of the Government, every individual concerned in the affair would have been taken into custody, and carried before a magistrate, 608 and fined for being in a public-house after hours, under the Tippling Act. Mr. Sheil was, therefore, acquitted by the magistrates of that of which he was never accused. As to the motion, he had no hesitation in acceding to the suggestion of the noble Marquess, and withdrawing it for the present. But he must not forget to remark, in reply to the noble Marquess's observation as to the course he had pursued that evening, being such as no other noble Lord in their Lordships' House would think fit to pursue; he must say that he had pursued no course but what conscience dictated as his duty, in order to show what was the state of the county of which he was lord-lieutenant; and in reply to the noble Marquess's not very courteous, or rather very rude, remark, he would say, that the Government of Ireland had been carried on in such a way by the noble Marquess as he believed no other nobleman in the peerage would have carried it on.
The Marquess of Normanbyhoped that, notwithstanding what had fallen from the noble Marquess, that the House would not conclude Mr. Shell to have been really liable to a conviction under the Tippling Act. When the whole of the evidence and documents connected with the affair came before their Lordship; he had little doubt but they would form nearly the same opinion on it as he himself had done.
§ Motion withdrawn.