Lords Sitting of 16 February 1838

MINUTES.
Petitions presented By Lord SEGRAVE, from the Guardians of an Union in Gloucestershire, for the Amendment on the Beer-licensing Acts; and from Holford, for the immediate abolition of Negro Slavery.—By the Earl of RADNOR, from Richmond, Yorkshire, and from the city of York, for the Vote by Ballot.—By Lord BROUGHAM, from Holbeck, Shrewsbury, Kilmarnock, and Braintree, for an extension of the Suffrage; from Reddington and Gateshead, for a system of National Education; from Breckon, and the Gorbals, against additional endowments for the Scotch Church; from Dundee, for an alteration in the constitution of the Sheriffs' Courts (Scotland); from Montross, to deprive the King of Hanover of his allowance; from Gisburn, for a revision of the Criminal Law; from Cirencester and Walsall, against the system of Negro Apprenticeship; from Ardrossan, for the protection of the Elective Franchise, and a system of National Education; from the Procurators of Cupar, against any law for the regulations of their practice; from Bradford, and Stafford, for a reduction of Postage; from the Poplar Institution, from Berwick-on-Tweed, Leicester, and Gateshead, in favour of National Education; from Dumbarton, and Glasgow, for a repeal of the Corn-laws; and from Braintree, Lambeth, and Buckington, against compulsory measures towards the Canadians.

THE VOTE BY BALLOT.
Lord Broughampresented a petition from Wigan, praying for an extension of the Suffrage, the shortening of Parliament, and Vote by Ballot. This petition, with many which he presented last night, related to a subject which he perceived, by the votes of Parliament, had occupied the attention of the other branch of the Legislature, and though, knowing their Lordships as he did, he might be disposed to congratulate them on the division, which carried, no doubt, what appeared to them to be a proper vote, by a majority of 117, yet he was afraid, and he felt bound to say it, that another such victory would be their Lordships' ruin. The motion for the ballot had been supported by 198, exclusive of the two tellers, which was an addition of about one-fifth to the whole number of those who had supported the motion on the last occasion; and he must say that, unless their Lord-
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ships made up their minds either to this measure or some measure of the sort for the protection of electors, it appeared likely to be carried against them. The time appeared to him to be come when something must be done. At all events, there was a large proportion, even with the interest of Government against it, of the constituency in favour of some more effectual protection to be given to the voter in the exercise of his elective franchise; and he knew it was equally so in Scotland. If, therefore, some effective protection was not given, it would be a solitary case within his experience of a great measure, in which the public interest was excited to a great degree, going on from year to year increasing, until at last it reached the climax of a large number of the constituents and their representatives marshalling themselves in combination in favour of a measure—it would, he repeated, be the solitary instance, either in his experience, or, as far as he knew, in history, if such a measure, so increasing in favour with the people and their Representatives, did not sooner or later become law. The sooner, therefore, their Lordships made up their minds to some such measure as this the better it would be for them.
Lord Wharncliffecould not help calling the attention of their Lordships to the fact, that when the Reform Bill was discussed one of the objections made by his side of the House was, that if the measure passed it was quite impossible that the question could there stand, but that it must inevitably lead to the enactment of vote by ballot and an extension of the suffrage. Now, if the noble and learned Lord was correct in what he had just stated, it would appear that their view of the matter was likely to be realised, and that, instead of being able to boast of having passed a final measure of reform, the parties who originally raised the question would now have to fight the battle against the enactment of these two supplemental measures. He confessed, however, he did not view the recent discussion in the other House with any degree of fear. On the contrary, he felt much gratified with what had occurred, for he perceived by the debates that the Ministers of the Crown in the House of Commons had taken the part he conceived they ought to take. At the same time, it was quite true that if they were to have the vote by ballot, it would

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be impossible to do without considerable extension of the suffrage, for it would be absurd to suppose that the non-electing body would allow the suffrage to be placed in the hands of persons who were utterly irresponsible. Therefore, if it were true that the question of the vote by ballot was much advanced by the decision of the House of Commons last night, it was quite clear, and the people of England ought fully to understand it, that the question of an extension of suffrage had been equally advanced.
Lord Broughamsaid, that nothing had been further from his intention than to impute fear to the noble Baron. Fear was not in the nature of the noble Baron's life; but be did think that he must feel some little alarm at the result of last night's proceedings in the other House. As for himself, he felt no alarm whatever at the observations just made by the noble Baron, for he was of a decided opinion that giving the vote by ballot, without at the same time extending the suffrage, would prove, so far from beneficial, most detrimental to Parliamentary Reform.
Petition laid on the table.