Lords Sitting of 16 May 1836

MINUTES.
Bills. Read a second time:—Turnpike Roads' (Scotland).
Petitions presented. By several NOBLE LORDS, from various Places, for the Better Observance of the Sabbath.—By the Earl of BURLINGTON and the Earl of Falmouth, from Sheffield and Falmouth, against the Punishment of Death for any Crime but Murder.—By the Earl of BURLINGTON, from Oldham, for the Repeal of the Stamp Duty on Newspapers.—By the Marquess of LANSDOWNE, from the Medical Profession in Suffolk and at Bath, for Remuneration for attending Coroners' Inquests.—By the Marquess of LANSDOWNE, from the parishes of St. Phillips and St. Jacobs, Bristol, against the use of Spirits, and to adopt Measures to prevent Drunkenness.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND).
The Marquess of Lansdowne: Seeing the noble and learned Lord (Lord Lyndhurst) in the House, and perceiving that one of the most important of the Orders of the Day, is the recommitment of a Bill which is still called a Bill for the Better Regulation of Municipal Corporations in Ireland, I should be desirous of learning from the noble and learned Lord whether, as he possesses the best claim to the merit of having prepared the measure, he intends himself, or whether he wishes me, to move the Bill through its further stages?
Lord Lyndhurst: In reply to the noble Marquess I have only to say, that if he, or any other Member of the Government, will move the recommitment of the Bill for the Better Regulation of the Municipal Corporations of Ireland, I shall be ready to move certain amendments.
The Marquess of Lansdowne: Then, my Lords, as the noble and learned Lord seems to think it is my duty so to do, I am undoubtedly prepared to move the recommit-
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ment of this Bill. I am prepared to move the recommitment of this Bill for the purpose of showing the respect I entertain for the deliberations of the other House of Parliament, which sent up this measure for our consideration. It is in this sense alone I beg it may be distinctly understood, that I believe it to be my duty to move the recommitment of the Bill—it will be in this sense alone that I shall (should the noble and learned Lord not do so) move the Bill through the remaining stages it has to pass in this House. I repeat, that as the noble and learned Lord declines to make the motion, I shall certainly move the Bill both in its present and future stages; but I wish it to be understood, that in so doing I do not adopt either the principles or the details of the Bill—for both principles and details have been changed since it came into this House—and that I only take this step for the purpose of affording to the other House of Parliament an opportunity of considering if it is able to recognize the identity of their Bill in that which shall be returned to them.
Lord Lyndhurst: I beg to assure the noble Marquess, that I meant to show him no discourtesy in declining to accord to his evident wish that I should take upon myself the moving of the Order of the Day. I merely desired that the ordinary course of proceeding should be adopted upon the present occasion, and that as the measure which forms the subject of this discussion originally made its appearance in this House on the introduction of a Member of the Government, it should be moved through its several stages under the same management.
The Marquess of Clanricarde: I do not rise to oppose the motion for the recommitment of this Bill. At the same time I must say, that most undoubtedly if it comes from the Committee in the shape it now appears likely it will be made to assume, it shall meet from me with all the opposition a very humble Member of this Assembly can give it. I take the measure as it now stands to be a positive insult to the people of Ireland. In place of being amended, the Bill has been entirely altered—altered in its principles and altered in its details, while the pervading principle of every change has been the most mistaken view of policy ever yet proposed to the Legislature for adoption.
Lord Lyndhurst: I think that as we have made some progress with the Bill in Committee, the better course would be to go through the remaining clauses, and then take the discussion upon the third reading.

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If this course meets the wishes of the noble Marquess, I shall be quite ready to propose my amendments.
The Marquess of Lansdowne: In order that the noble and learned Lord may remove the imperfections which are to be found in the Bill as it has been reconstructed, I now move that the House resolve itself into Committee. In doing so, however, I must say, that I entirely concur in the observations which have fallen from the noble Marquess near me, and I shall be ready to afford him my support in the opposition he meditates giving to the Bill in its future stages.
The House resolved itself into Committee.
Upon the suggestion of Lord Lyndhurst, the Committee commenced its proceedings by supplying several technical omissions in the clauses already considered.
On the 65th Section which provides for Recorders, being read,
Lord Lyndhurst, in answer to a question from a noble Lord, said that it was his intention, on the Report being brought up, to move that Belfast and Londonderry should have Recorders. He did not do so on that occasion, because such a motion would take the House by surprise.
On the 6'8th Clause being proposed,
The Lord Chancellor, in support of an amendment which he had suggested, to the effect as we understood, that the Lord Lieutenant should be enabled to oblige any Recorder having a seat in Parliament to the proper performance of the duties of his office, stated, that his only object in proposing such an alteration was, that a Recorder so circumstanced should not in future be left the option of performing his Parliamentary duties, but that his judicial functions should be attended to before those which attached to him as a Member of Parliament.
The Earl of Rodenprotested against the Recorders being disqualified to occupy a seat in Parliament, by an amendment such as that which had been proposed. If it were not considered right that the Recorders should be allowed to sit in Parliament, there ought to be a substantive motion made to that effect.
The Duke of Richmondsaid, it was his intention, on the third reading of the Bill, to move a specific clause to the effect, that Recorders should not be allowed to sit in Parliament.
The Clauses of the Bill having been all read and agreed to,
The Marquess of Lansdowneobserved,
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that it would be desirable that the Bill should go down to the House of Commons before the holidays; and premising that their Lordships were disposed to grant the same allowance with respect to the holidays as the House of Commons, and considering the disinclination which their Lordships had to sit on Thursday, he took it for granted that the noble and learned. Lord (Lord Lyndhurst) would have no objection to have the Report of the Bill brought up to-morrow, and the third reading taken on Wednesday.
Lord Lyndhurstsaid, that he had framed the amendments which had been proposed in order to consult the convenience of their Lordships, but that with respect to the third reading of the Bill, he had no more to do with that than any other noble Lord.
The Marquess of Lansdowne: It was his intention to move the third reading of the Bill exclusively for the purpose of giving the House of Commons an opportunity of knowing how their Lordships had dealt with the Bill which was sent up from that House.—Subject dropped.