Lords Sitting of 12 July 1836

MINUTES.
Bills. Read a second time:—Fisheries'Company (Ireland).—Read a first time:—Insolvent Debtors.
Petitions presented. By Lord HOLLAND, from the Prisoners in various Gaols, to be heard by Counsel for Imprisonment for Debt Bill.—By the Marquess of WESTMINSTER, from the various Parishes of Westminster, that the Jurisdiction of the Westminster Court of Requests may be Extended to the Recovery of Debts not exceeding 5l.—By Viscount MELBOURNE, from the Dissenters of the King's-Weigh-house Meeting, Fish Street Hill, London, for Registration of Births' Bill.—By the Bishop of LINCOLN, from the Parish Clerks of various Places, for Compensation in the event of the Registration of Births' Bill passing into a Law.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (ENGLAND)—CONFERENCE.
A conference was held with the Commons on the subject of the amendments made by their Lordships in the English Municipal Corporations Act Amendment Bill.
The reasons of the Commons for not agreeing to certain amendments made by their Lordships in the Bill were communicated to their Lordships, and ordered to be taken into consideration on a future day, and be printed.

TITHE COMMUTATION (ENGLAND.)
The order of the day for going into Committee on this Bill having been read,
The Marquess of Lansdownesaid, it was his intention to propose the insertion of a clause, empowering the Commissioners to offer terms of accommodation, where the land had been brought into cultivation within the last seven years. The noble Marquess also said, it was his intention to extend the time of voluntary commutation for one year more.
The Bishop of Exeterwas desirous of making one or two observations before the House went into Committee. He was ready to admit that this Bill would not operate

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prejudicially, if certain amendments, which he believed were likely to be proposed, were to be adopted. As trustee, however, not only to the present, but future generation of clergy, he felt that he should not be discharging his duty if he did not strongly urge the sacredness of the rights of those clergy, which were involved to a considerable degree in this Bill. It had been said, that the benefits arising from the fresh application of capital should be entirely confined to landlords. Now, in that opinion he did not agree. He thought the Church had an equitable right to a participation in the benefits arising from the fresh application of capital. But it was not by that means alone that the value of land and of tithe was increased. There were other means quite distinct from any capital, or any peculiar merits possessed by individuals. There were, for instance, the improvement in the arts, which tended to increase the productiveness of the land. In all these benefits he conceived the Church was entitled to a fair share. If their Lordships looked back to the reign of Henry the 8th., they would perceive that the valuation then made approached very nearly to the actual value—probably it was something below it; and if the principle of this Bill had been adopted at that period, one of the best livings in the gift of the Lord Chancellor of England now would not be of greater amount than 80 l. He would not even ask their Lordships to go as far back as that period, for within their own recollection the circumstances connected with land and the income of tithe-owners had been very much altered. He hoped there was no disposition in that House to lower the position of the clergy; but by fixing at once and for ever their rate of income, according to the relation it now bore to the land and the other interests of the country, they must be prepared to find their standing, at no distant period, completely altered, and the interests of justice and religion most seriously injured. He was not prepared with any specific proposition on the subject, but he did hope some provision would be made for a periodical adjustment of their income.
The Marquess of Lansdownecould not agree with the right rev. Prelate. The objection he had urged went to the very principle of the Bill; and he should, therefore, oppose any suggestion, in whatever form it might be offered, intended to accomplish the object the right rev. Prelate professed, to have in view.
Lord Ellenboroughthought this Bill would confer a very great advantage on the public generally, inasmuch as it would essentially contribute to extensive improvement in the cultivation and productiveness of land; but that advantage was as nothing compared to the benefit it would confer on the Church, not only in securing its property, but in especially promoting its usefulness in the satisfactory performance of all religious duties. Although, therefore, he had certain amendments to propose, not of a very important character, he was generally disposed to support the Bill as introduced by his Majesty's Government.
The Bill went through the Committee with various amendments.
The House resumed, the Bill to be printed, and the report to be received.