WAR IN SPAIN. (Hansard, 15 April 1836)

§ Viscount Melbourne
said, it was contrary to all precedent, it was against every principle of policy, to produce and give to the world the instructions given to an officer as a guide in the performance of his duty. The production of such instructions would 1055 have the effect of pointing out to the enemy the circumstances in which the officer was placed, the destination of the force under his command, and all his intended proceedings, as authorized by his Government, in transactions of this nature. The motion was of a wholly and entirely novel character. If there were any noble Lord in that House who wished to co-operate with Don Carlos, he hoped that he would not receive the support of their Lordships. He hoped and believed, however, that none of their Lordships were desirous of co-operating with Don Carlos, and thereby acting contrary to the recognition of the Queen of Spain by his Majesty, contrary to the policy of his Majesty's Government, and contrary to the success of his Majesty's arms.

The Marquess of Londonderry
was greatly surprised at the course adopted by the noble Viscount. He understood the noble Viscount yesterday to have said, in reference to Lord John Hay's communication, that it was not usual to produce private letters, but that he had no objection to laying the instructions before the House, and the noble Earl (Earl Minto) had made a similar statement. He repeated, that the noble Viscount distinctly stated to the House, that there was no objection to those instructions being produced. He was in the recollection of the noble Viscount, and he confidently asked him if such were not the fact? The noble Viscount, on that occasion, took his usual course; and, in his customary offhand manner, gave that sort of off-hand answer which he had stated to their Lordships. On more than one occasion he had had reason to complain of that sort of proceeding. The noble Viscount seemed frequently to be guided by what occurred in another place; and, having stated his opinion one day, he came down to the House on the next with an entirely different decision. That was by no means an unusual thing with the noble Viscount. He should like to know and to understand whether the noble Viscount was really the first Minister of the Crown, and whether their Lordships could place implicit belief in the noble Viscount's answer when they asked him a question. He had yesterday given notice, that he would move for these instructions to-day, and he certainly did not expect that there would be any opposition to his motion. When he mentioned the subject yesterday, the noble Earl (the First Lord of the Admiralty) intimated that Lord John Hay's letter was borne out by the instructions, and, as he understood the noble 1056 Earl, that there was no objection to the production of those instructions. Now, he only wanted a copy of the instructions, so far as they applied to Lord John Hay's letter. He did not call for the instructions given generally to officers, with respect to the course which they were to pursue in the Spanish contest. What he wanted to know was, whether the instructions sent out by the Government warranted the letter of Lord John Hay? Was it fair, he asked, when he called for information of this kind, that it should be withheld? He wished to ascertain correctly, to what extent this country was pledged to assist in carrying on the war in Spain. Upon that point he was desirous of receiving information. They had on their table a copy of the quadruple treaty—that precious treaty, to which this country ought never to have been a party. After that treaty had been entered into, every step which they took with reference to the war in Spain ought to have been adopted in common with their allies, who were also parties to that treaty. Now it was very important to know whether that which had been done, and which he took to be equivalent to a declaration of war against the Carlist party in Spain, was done in concert with France, and whether France was likely to act up to the measures taken by this Government with reference to the Spanish contest? If so, he would ask the noble Viscount whether he was prepared to follow up the apparent views of the Government, by sending to Spain a force from this country? And further, whether France would, in the same manner, assist in prosecuting this war? Had the French Government, he demanded, agreed to do that? He believed that they had done no such thing. Louis Phillipe understood his true policy too well to adopt such a line of conduct. Upon these grounds he asked the noble Viscount, whether he was prepared to follow up those proceedings which his Majesty's Government had already sanctioned, and to let the country know in what situation it was placed, and what the people had to expect? The noble Duke (Wellington) had on a recent occasion very truly said, that the moment the British Legion landed in Spain, from that moment England had departed from her situation as a neutral power. If that were the fact, how much more had this country now departed from its neutrality by the instructions which had been sent out? In bringing forward this subject he had no cause at heart but the cause of his country. He had no desire 1057 except that of benefiting those unfortunate men who had been deluded by a weak and mischievous policy to leave their native shore for the purpose of embarking in this war. He was anxious to protect them; he was anxious that they should know whether their country was at war with the party of Don Carlos. He did not mean to quarrel with a declaration of war, if the proceedings of Government went to that extent. In fact, he would much rather that there should be an open declaration of war, than that this country should continue to act in that discreditable and disgraceful manner by which her policy, with reference to the affairs of Spain, had unfortunately been distinguished.

The Earl of Minto
said, his noble Friend had been unfortunate in his misapprehension of what had fallen from him on the preceding evening. He had, on that occasion, made two statements. The one was that of the letter to which his noble Friend had alluded, he had no official knowledge whatever; and he at the same time stated, that the view taken by Lord John Hay, as contained in his letter, was, so far as it went, in conformity with the instructions that had been issued. That was what he stated. But he further observed, that the mere circumstance of their being instructions, gave a character to the document which rendered it impossible that it could be produced. The noble Marquess might not have heard him distinctly, but he appealed to his noble Friends around him whether such was not the opinion which he had expressed.

The Earl of Rosebery
said, that from the situation he occupied when the conversation took place on the preceding evening, he could positively declare that the statement made by the noble Earl was perfectly correct. The noble Earl distinctly stated, in the first place, with regard to Lord John Hay's letter, that it was private; and, with respect to the instructions, that it was impossible to grant them. He thought that the noble Earl added (but of this he was not quite certain) that he could not produce the instructions, because they were instructions, and it was not customary to produce official documents of such a nature.

§ Viscount Melbourne
said, when the noble Marquess put the question to him on the preceding evening, he replied, that the impression on his mind was, that the letter was in the possession of the Admiralty, and he believed that there would be no objection to its production. On that point, however, 1058 his noble Friend, the First Lord of the Admiralty, immediately corrected him. With respect to the instructions, not a word was said about them. They were first introduced in the noble Marquess's notice of motion.

§ The Earl of Harrowby
did not understand what the noble Viscount meant by his allusion to noble Lords who might be anxious to co-operate with Don Carlos. He conceived that any noble Lord had a right to call for that sort of information which the noble Marquess required, without laying himself open to such an imputation. He was neither Carlist nor Christino; and he wished to God they had never heard of those distinctions; but he could not avoid thinking, that it would have been more for the interest and for the honour of this country, if the Government had acted with more decision. The course which they had pursued was so perfectly ambiguous, that it was impossible to understand it. One point worthy of notice was, that they were at the present moment in a state of war, without having declared war. Further, they were in a state of war, but, strange to say, they did not know with whom they were at war. He wished the noble Viscount to give them some explanation on that point, and to inform them whether, in future, they were to confine themselves strictly to the terms of the quadruple treaty; which having been entered into, ought to be faithfully fulfilled, but which he wished to God had never been contracted, since it had been the means of placing this country in a situation without precedent or example in the history of Christian nations.

§ Viscount Melbourne
disclaimed having imputed to any noble Lord a desire to cooperate with Don Carlos. On the contrary, he said, that he trusted—nay, that he put his full confidence in the correctness of his feeling—that no Member of their Lordships' House harboured any desire to cooperate with Don Carlos; and he did not attribute any such intention to the noble Marquess in calling for those instructions. He placed full confidence in the august and noble assembly which he had the honour to address, and he imputed not to any of them such a disposition as that to which allusion had been made. With respect to the situation in which this country now stood with reference to Spain, he did not mean to assert that they had not passed beyond the strict line of neutrality. It was clear, as had been stated by the Noble Duke (Wellington), that after the quadruple treaty had 1059 been entered into, after an armed intervention in the affairs of Spain had been admitted, after armaments had been sent to that country, they were, pro tanto, enemies to a party in that country, and in a state of warfare with that party. All that he had to say upon this point was, that the course which had been taken by his Majesty's Ministers, the instructions which had been sent out, and the proceedings which had been adopted, were perfectly within the hounds, limits, and terms, of the quadruple treaty. How much further it might be necessary to go he was not now prepared to state. That was for the consideration of his Majesty's Government, and must be governed by circumstances as they arose. This, however, he would say, on the part of the Government, that they were in the strongest degree impressed with the duty and necessity of putting an end, as speedily as possible, to the lamentable contest which was now being carried on in Spain. Every consideration of policy, and every consideration of humanity, induced them to use their efforts to bring this contest to a termination.

§ Lord Abinger
said, the noble Viscount had correctly stated, that he had expressed his confident belief that no noble Lord wished to co-operate with Don Carlos. But the noble Viscount had forgotten, that he had preceded that observation by saying, that "if any noble Lord harboured such a wish, he hoped that the House would not go along with him." That did appear to imply a suspicion with respect to the motives by which some noble Lords might be actuated.

The Marquess of Londonderry
referred to the 4th article of the quadruple treaty, and asked, whether France was a party, under that treaty, to the new arrangements made by his Majesty's Ministers?

The Earl of Minto
said, the article did not bear the construction which the noble Marquess put upon it. It related merely to a supply of arms and ammunition on the part of this country, and also to the cooperation of a naval force, for the purposes specified. It had nothing to do with the proceedings of any other state whatsoever. It merely bound this country to afford certain aid to the Spanish Government.

The Marquess of Londonderry
said, they could easily perceive, from Lord John Hay's letter, what was the extent of the instructions sent out from the Admiralty. Lord John Hay said, "he had received orders from the Government of his Britan- 1060 nic Majesty to afford the most active and efficacious co-operation in preventing the fortresses on this coast, which display the flag of Queen Isabella II., from falling into the power of the troops of the pretender, and also in retaking from the rebels such of those places as may have already fallen into their hands." Now, this he looked upon as an actual declaration of war, and he wished to know whether France participated in it?

The Earl of Minto
said, the instructions did go to an active and efficacious co-operation with the Spanish Government, so far as our naval force was concerned, but no further. A co-operation of our naval force—a co-operation of British seamen and marines—which was, in its nature and essence, a naval co-operation, was authorised—but nothing else.

The Marquess of Londonderry
said, there were two distinct points in the letter of Lord John Hay, founded upon the instructions sent out. Lord John Hay said, "I have orders to aid and protect all the operations which your Excellency (General Cordova) may think proper to undertake on this coast. I have also to inform your Excellency, that all the ships under my command have received instructions to take on board troops of her Majesty Isabella II., and to convey them to any points on the coast." Was not this more than a naval co-operation?