Lords Sitting of 20 March 1835

MINUTES.
Bill. The Royal Assent was given by Commission to the following Bills:—Transfer of Aids; Exchequer Bills; Newspaper Printers' Relief; Chester Criminals' Execution.
Petitions presented. By the Duke of SUTHERLAND, the Earl of ABERDEEN, the Earl of GALLOWAY, and a NOBLE LORD, from several Places,—for Additional Accommodation in Scotch Churches,—By the Earl of Denbigh, from Upper Chelsea, for the Better Observance of the Sabbath.—By Lord WHARNCLIFFE, from two Places, for the Repeal and Alteration of the Factories' Regulation Act.—By Lord ST. HELEN'S, from Landowners of the County of Salop, for Relief, and against the Alteration of the Corn-Laws.

THE CHURCH.
Lord Broughamsaid, that a Petition had been put into his hands, which, being very respectfully worded, he should lay before their Lordships, and should move that it be read by the Clerk. He should only state thus much concerning it, for he never would make himself responsible for the contents of any petition he should ever present. The petition was from a gentleman who described himself as T. Peter Gurney, clerk. It stated, that he had been thirty-eight years officiating minister of St. Allen, Cornwall; that he held only a curacy; that no misconduct whatever had ever been charged against him; that a living had become vacant in the bishopric of Exeter; that he had humbly applied for it to the Lord Bishop of that diocese; but that his long services had been passed over, and the living given to another man. The
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petitioner suggested, that to provide for poor clergymen in their old age, a sort of half-pay should be appropriated out of the surplus revenues of cathedral, and from Ecclesiastical sinecures.
The Bishop of Exeterfelt fully the force of the excellent example set this night by the noble and learned Lord and he should endeavour to follow it. The motives which induced a bishop to give or withhold a living, he was sure, was a question that their Lordships would not enter upon; and he should be wanting in due respect for the Church, if he entered into a statement of his motives on the present occasion. As to the general principles on which he acted in these matters, he was ready to declare, that he for one felt most anxious to bestow livings so as to reward meritorious individuals. He should say nothing of the individual who had presented this Petition, but he should state, that the living which he had not given to that individual, he had given to a curate of whom he had received a very high character. He should say it not in the spirit of boastfulness, but was entitled, when thus called upon, to state what was his general practice in these matters. A large proportion of livings had fallen into his hands during the four years that he had held the see of Exeter—no fewer than sixteen having come into his gift during that time. Thirteen of these he had given to curates, all of whom he bad selected

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on the ground of merit alone, not one of them having been privately known to him, or related to him, or connected with him in any other way. Three he did not give to curates. The first of these three he gave to a son of his own; he was proud to say a very deserving son. Of the two others, one fell to him by a singular scruple of conscience of the patron. That gentleman had bought the next turn to the living, but after he had done so, his conscience told him, that that was not a proper way to acquire a presentation. This was a valuable living, which he confessed he should have liked to give to his son, but, having come into his hands in this way, he gave it to the best clergyman he could find in the neighbourhood, and he was happy afterwards to find, that he had bestowed it on the individual for whom it had been intended. The other living, the last of the three, was given by him to break down a plurality. He had placed in one of the most populous places of Cornwall, an excellent and popular clergyman, instead of allowing it to be in the hands of a non-resident incumbent.
The Petition laid on the Table.

MALT AND HOP DUTIES.
Lord Teynham:My Lords, in presenting these Resolutions for your Lordships' consideration, I beg to state, that I am actuated by a sense of public duty only, and have no wish to serve the purposes of party, or to embarrass his Majesty's Government. To the first of these Resolutions, your Lordships and the other House of Parliament have already agreed. No one denies the distressed condition of agriculture, in all its various interests and parts. To the second, my Lords, I will, therefore, come at once; and I have presumed to present it to your Lordships in consequence of the very decided disapprobation expressed in all parts of the country, upon the vote of the House of Commons for the continuance of the Malt-tax. I have added the Hop-duties, as equally requisite for the substantial relief of the people. It would ill become me to take up your Lordships' time, in pointing out the direful effects of these taxes upon the labouring classes, especially the labourers in husbandry. These taxes are the primary cause of the depravity of the labourer, of the distress of the farmer, and the embarrassment of the landlord in procuring his rent. Such, my Lords, are the feel-
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ings out of doors for the repeal of these taxes, that I am convinced no Cabinet can be permanent which does not take the repeal into consideration. It is a pressure from without that cannot be long resisted. All wise men consider it the first step towards any improvement of the condition of the people; and the indignation now openly expressed in the counties upon the dereliction of their public pledges and solemn promises, by so many Members of the Commons, is sufficient proof of the public feelings; and the negative given to the Motion of the noble Member for Buckinghamshire, has done more to shake the confidence of the people in the wisdom of the Legislature, than any one act in modern times. The only argument, my Lords, of these apostates to their pledges, was the fear it might add to the difficulties of the present, almost expiring, Cabinet; and the right hon. Baronet, the Member for East Kent, has falsified a life of promises and assurances on this subject, in the hopes of a short respite for his colleagues. As I have a sincere good feeling towards the right hon. Baronet, I shall only say, I trust he will never again present himself for the approbation of the men of Kent. My Lords, we have heard much of late of the critical situation of this House, and, perhaps, of the Throne of these realms—where are we to look for support, but to the brave and determined peasantry of the land? Let us, then, before the hour of peril arrives, do justice to them—let us not forget the warning voice of the French Revolution of 1789. My Lords, I will now inquire into the justice of this taxation—and ask your Lordships, can it be supported by the equity of the case? We will, my Lords, take our debt at 900 millions, and the expenditure by the estimates of last year. It will then be clear, that if this annual revenue was collected by a poll-tax, it would give 3l. 1s. 8d. per head, and every family, counting five, 15 l. 8s. 4d. per annum, to pay it. Now, my Lords, the Poor-law Commissioners and others have reckoned 45 l. per annum as the highest sum such a family could earn from their labour. You, therefore, my Lords, abstract one-third from the income of every industrious family; but whilst the land is not taxed at a sixth of its value, and the immense funded property not in the least, how could you collect so iniquitous a charge upon labour? Impossible, my Lords. But the

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Chancellor of the Exchequer turns round, and says to the labourer—Oh, I knew very well I could not make you pay in direct taxation, but I will impose an excise upon your common necessaries of life, especially upon malt and hops, that shall compel payment. My Lords, here again, the labourer has the worst of the bargain, for the Excise taxation not only eats up his domestic life, but he actually pays nearly double his direct impost. My Lords, I need not observe labour is the only property of the working classes; and if you do not found that upon an augmentation equal to taxation, your Lordships' principles of Government are founded upon injustice, and usurpation of the rights of the labourer. My Lords, we must not forget, that in the last, hundred years we have also deprived the labourer of many advantages—his cottage rights, his pasture for cattle, his poultry walk, &c, have all been taken from him by above four thousand enclosure acts, and those laws the wisdom of our ancestors provided for his security have been all, my Lords, abrogated in modern times. My Lords, the great Lord Bacon observes,—that the dwellers in husbandry should not be beggars in the land. Queen Elizabeth thought so when she established, in the 5th of her reign, to protect the wages of labour, a law now acted upon in France and Flanders. James the First thought so, my Lords, when he made laws against the monopoly of beer, which he declared, as the drink of the peasant, ought not to exceed a penny per quart for good ale. Barley was then nearly as dear as at present. My Lords, what has been our substitute for all these heavy privations? Why, a degrading system of parish allowances, under the 43rd of Elizabeth, and the five hundred acts passed since to amend the Poor-laws, and now a new Poor-law Bill founded on workhouse severity, to grind the unhappy labourer to the condition of the Irish peasantry. My Lords, I could pursue this subject much further, but I shall only add, these taxes have also converted this salutary beverage into a deadly poison, as the importation of deleterious drugs to a most enormous extent sufficiently proves, as well as the acid condition of brewers' beer, most of whom have been convicted of these practices—many more than once. My Lords, these taxes have greatly reduced the consumption of this salutary necessary of life to
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the labourer. In 1770, with a population of eight millions, twenty-six millions of bushels of barley were malted; in 1830, with a population more than doubled, only twenty-seven millions of bushels were malted-—which is a reduction of one-half. I regard, my lords, with little credit, the sophistries of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, upon the increased use of other articles, especially tea and coffee; as no one can persuade me, that if the labourer could procure cheap untaxed home-brewed beer, he would resort to those taxed and adulterated substitutes. No, my Lords, the right hon. Baronet does not believe this himself. But there is another cause, which the right hon. Baronet keeps out of sight, for this change. My Lords, it is the Bill of the right hon. Baronet of 1819. That Bill has had severe effects in rural affairs. My Lords, the banker of the farmer is now the village shopkeeper; he pays the wages of the labourer, and advances him tea, coffee, sugar, &c. on credit, but no beer, my Lords.—Here is the secret, my Lords, of these changes that have puzzled the Chancellor of the Exchequer, it is the want of any circulating medium under five pound country notes. That is the origin of all these changes and evils. Sir Robert Peel well knows, my Lords, that if the duties on malt and on hops are taken off, the whole excise scheme falls to the ground at once, and even spirits ardent spirits, will fall in the battle field of home-brewed beer. My Lords, I humbly press upon the minds of noble Lords opposite, the necessity of an immediate and total change of our financial system, now based upon the oppression of the labouring classes. I am, my Lords, one of those who maintain it can be done, and with safety to public credit; but I do not deny that I wish, my Lords, to see the fund-holder pay his due proportion of the taxation of the country; or soon, my Lords, like Aaron's rod, it will swallow up the rest; and soon, my Lords, compel the Minister of Finance to come to an issue of a crop of assignats more plentiful and more fatal than those of the French Directory. With rapid strides, my Lords, we are now hastening to that calamitous end. Most humbly do I implore your Lordships to arrest the course, and, by agreeing to these resolutions, compel a change of system. It would highly become your Lordships to make the first move. I implore your Lordships not to become the seven

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sleepers, who arose, went forth to the world, and found all their ideas, all their notions were of times gone by, and that no man understood them. My Lords, the moral effects from the reduction of the duties will be incalculable; harmony will be restored between the farm and the cottage; domestic life revived; servants learning in farm-houses useful knowledge; early education; prudence and value for character; wages reduced; rents well paid in consequence; and a demoralized nation reclaimed. These, my Lords, go far beyond the price of barley or relief to clay or light soils. I beg also to state, my Lords, that the whole calculation in another place on the price of malt is fallacious. Without taxation it never can much exceed the price of barley. It is now 20 s. beyond an average price of barley; while hops, were the tax reduced would, from extended cultivation fall to 6d. per lb., as I believe the 50,000 acres now planted would soon be doubled. Already a great export trade, independent of Ireland, has commenced, and near one and a half millions of lbs. were exported last year, besides 200,000 barrels of ale and porter not mentioned, my Lords, by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The whole population of Kent, Sussex, and Hants would be most actively employed on the hops and woodlands, and the poor rates reduced to a trifle. These, my Lords, would be the happy effects of this Repeal. I now come, my Lords, to the revenue portion of this resolution. It is true, these duties would take off 5,000,000 from the National Income; but, my Lords, experience in the last forty years has proved that when any tax is taken off, one half of it always returns to the Exchequer. We have thus to provide for two and a half millions. In my humble opinion, my Lords, the hon. Member for Middlesex has clearly proved the facility of making good this deficiency. My Lords, can we not pacify at length Ireland, and relieve her just causes of discontent, by the abolition of tithes, the diminution of the Protestant Church to the wants of her votaries, useful operations against the absentees, and giving her the laws of England, and removing the Castle Government and military subjection from that improving and industrious people? Here you may gain, indeed, the value of your reduction of duties on malt and hops. My Lords, is it not also time to think seriously of our extravagant war expenditure in peace; fourteen millions and a half, my
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Lords, are the Estimates for 1835, for national defence; 150,000,000 l. expended every ten years. Dare I inquire of the noble Lords near me, if this mighty expenditure has secured the honour of England—I fear not, my Lords, it would as yet, perhaps, be unfair to inquire of his Majesty's Ministers. But, my Lords, has not the British Nation seen with indignation the treaty of Vienna broken, and Poland, the advanced guard of our civilization, destroyed as an independent power by the most ferocious system of cruelty ever heard of amongst men—has not the Russian despot nearly subjugated European Turkey, and waits alone to plant his foul banners on the minarets of St. Sophia, whilst, my Lords, the gallant fleets of England are condemned to useless cruises from Malta to the Dardanelles. Why are the Ionian Isles preserved at an expense of half a million every year—are they to be the last victim to the Russian Minotaur? My Lords, I might ask, why are 10,000 troops kept in the Canadas? But that is tender ground—the seeds are there sown of another Ireland—and the vast Atlantic rolls between us, while the powerful United States is not asleep; they already place one foot upon Quebec and the other poised upon the island of Cuba. My Lords, is the experience of the war for American independence forgotten, and does the noble Viscount (Canterbury) proceed in the spirit of Lord Carlisle? I fear he does—at all events, my lords, reduce these estimates, and give up that reliance upon standing armies—which has been the bane of our empire since the accession of the House of Hanover to the Throne. I will not, my Lords, mention retrenchments in places, or pensions, or appointments, because they will soon come before the other House of Parliament; but I humbly implore your Lordships to agree to these resolutions, as the humble but zealous advocate of the toiling millions who will hail your Lordships with their blessings. I conclude, by moving, that this House does coincide in his Majesty's gracious expressions of his Speech from the Throne, on the opening of Parliament, 'that the agricultural interests of Great Britain, in all its various branches, is now suffering under deep depression.'"
"Resolved, that this House considers the excessive Excise taxation upon most of the common necessaries of life, to be one of the leading causes of this lamentable con-

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dition of rural affairs; and we, therefore, most strongly recommend to his Majesty's Government the repeal of the duties upon malt and hops, as more seriously affecting the labouring classes, than those upon other articles, and mainly contributing to the present demoralized state of the peasantry, by depriving them of the comforts of domestic life, and thus compelling them to resort to public houses for their daily beverage."
Motion negatived.