HL Deb 29 June 1835 vol 29 cc3-5
The Earl of Wicklow

wished to put a question to the noble Viscount opposite, on the subject of the Houses of Parliament. When the Building Committee laid its Report on the Table, he had taken the liberty of calling the attention of their Lordships to the sort of provision which had been made for the accommodation of the Members of this House during the period that the new Houses would be in a course of building. What he said then was under the impression that the period would be short before proper accommodation was afforded to their Lordships. He now believed that that period would be much longer than he had originally anticipated, perhaps extending to four or five years. He wished, therefore, to ask the noble Viscount whether a better mode of accommodation than the present could not now be devised, and whether he had any plan for the accommodation of their Lordships during the Ion period that must necessarily intervene before the two Houses could be erected.

Viscount Duncannon

said, that he believed the noble Earl anticipated a longer time than would be required, for he understood that two years would be the utmost period required to complete the building. Several questions had been put to him on this subject, and he thought that he should best answer them all by reading the letter he had received from Sir Robert Smirke on the subject. He had asked Sir Robert Smirke whether any alteration could be made in the present House by taking any thing from the thickness of the walls, secondly, whether the House could be enlarged by the building of new walls, leaving the roofs and facings as at present; thirdly, whether a temporary House could be fitted up in Westminster Hall; and, fourthly, whether he could make any proposition by which the accommodation for their Lordships, even under the present plan, could be increased; and whether any apertures could be made to admit the air so as to ventilate the House in a better manner than at present. The best mode of stating the answers to these questions would be by reading the letter. The noble Viscount here read the letter as follows. It was dated June 25:— My Lord,—I have, according to your Lordship's desire, considered in what manner it may be possible to provide greater accommodation for the House of Lords, either by enlarging the present room occupied by their Lordships, or by erecting a temporary one of suitable dimensions in some convenient situation. The walls of the present room are from four and a-half to five feet in thickness, but they are built of rough materials—chalk and rubble-stone, loosely held together, and in some parts so much fractured, that it would be impossible to increase the width of the room by cutting away any portion of their thickness; an enlargement of the present room could only be made by taking down the walls altogether, and rebuilding them. I am of opinion that it would incur very little more expense to build another larger room in a temporary manner, which might be done in the space between the north wall of the present room and the south wall of St. Stephen's Chapel, and where it would stand clear of the line of any permanent buildings that may be erected before the removal or alteration of the present ones. In this space a room could be built, raised to the same level as the others, thirty-eight feet wide (which was the width of the former House of Commons), and seventy feet long; leaving a sufficient area (about thirty feet) to preserve the light of the rooms and offices which occupy the site of the Long Gallery. A passage might be made to communicate with the Lobby of the House of Commons from the north end of the room below the Bar, which would be at that end. The entrance for Peers would be from the present House through doors made in the wall opposite the end of the Royal Gallery, and at the end of the passage recently made at the back of the Throne. The expense of building such a room would he about 4,500l. The seats, &c, now used, might be removed into it, and fitted to it without much alteration, and the Throne would also be removed and placed at the south end, between the two doors of entrance. Your Lordship desired me to consider whether any arrangement could be made with advantage for providing the required accommodation in Westminster Hall; and I beg to state to your Lordship, that when the plans for the temporary buildings were first under consideration, immediately after the fire, the occupation of Westminster Hall for a part of them was fully considered: the plan was abandoned on account of the expense and inconvenience of removing the Courts of Law, which would have been necessary: and on account also of the difficulty of providing any means of warming and lighting rooms made in the Hall without injury to the building, and greatly increasing the risk of fire in it. The Hall is so far removed from all the offices of the House of Lords, that I do not think any use can be made of it at this time for their Lordships' convenience, in connexion with those buildings. I have the honour to be, my Lord, Your very obedient servant, (Signed) ROBT. SMIRKE.

Lord Brougham

said that the present House was about one of the most inconvenient places that could be imagined. Though it was small, it was bad for hearing—its temperature was bad, for though it might require healthy ventilation it was full of draughts, so that he was in absolute horror when he heard of opening apertures for air. In fact, he thought that the ingenuity of man could hardly contrive any thing not as a sample of a House of Parliament, but as a beacon, as a warning to all future architects not to attempt the erection of a building which should possess so many inconveniences as they enjoyed here,. It was so cold here, that after sitting in the House in the morning he had gone out into a north wind to enjoy the benefit of a milder temperature. He had so long been accustomed to very inconvenient places, such as our Courts of Justice, that he himself made no complaint, and if the expense was considerable, he was ready to go on as at present.

The Earl of Wicklow

was most happy to have the opinion of the noble and learned Lord with him, since the noble and learned Lord who sat for so many hours in the House, spoke from the result of experience. He should be glad to hear what could be done to remedy the present evils; the more particularly as he believed something could be done without interfering with the erection of the intended permanent buildings.

Viscount Duncannon

should to-morrow propose to lay the letter of Sir R. Smirke before the Building Committee.