§ The Duke of Richmondpresented a Petition from the inhabitants of Clare, in favour of the establishment of a system of Poor-laws in Ireland. He should not take up their Lordships' time by entering at large into this subject; but he should merely say, that he earnestly hoped to see the law of England and Ireland assimilated in this respect. The supposed difficulty of finding persons by whom the Poor-laws were to be worked, was now abandoned, and the only question was, whether the introduction of Poor-laws would be beneficial to the country. For himself, he was convinced that the establishment of Poor-laws for that country would tend much to the comfort of the people, and, he believed, would much diminish the number of offences of violence, now unfortunately so common in Ireland.
The Earl of Limerickthanked the noble Duke for the courtesy of giving him notice of his intention to present this petition. He did not agree with the noble Duke in his opinions on this subject. The noble Duke thought that the introduction of Poor-laws into Ireland would be of advantage to Ireland, and that the laws of the two countries should be assimilated. He would to God that the situation of that country would allow of such an assimilation. But he, who had passed the greater part of along life in that country, was convinced that there was no man who had done so, but must feel that that which would suit in England would not suit in Ireland, and that this was particularly the case with respect to the Poor-laws. But with respect to the Poor-laws in this country, he thought that they had exercised a horrid influence here—they had nearly ruined this country; they would be still worse in Ireland. If they were introduced there, he believed that they would do away with all the kindly and charitable feelings that now existed in that country. Ireland, cursed as it was with many misfortunes, was happily distinguished by the possession of the best feelings of human nature. The affections of the people were strong; and there were no instances of a pauper not being relieved by the inhabitants, or of a 1202 poor child not being relieved by its parents, or of poor parents not being relieved by their children. That would no longer be the case if the Poor-laws were introduced there, and money was taken by force of law from those who possessed it, for the relief of the needy. He should content himself with saying that his sentiments on this subject remained unchanged.
§ The Duke of Richmondpresented a Petition similar to the last from Tullamore. He knew that the result of the introduction of the Poor-laws would be to take money by force of law from the rich for the relief of the poor. That was just what he wanted, for he wished that there should not be a possibility of persons starving when relief could be afforded them. He wished to see introduced into Ireland a Poor-law, not such as had been formerly so injurious to this country, but an amended system, which he thought would be of the greatest advantage to Ireland. The noble Earl had spoken of the relief voluntarily afforded in Ireland to those who were distressed. He had spoken, also, of the Poor-laws ruining this country. When Ireland was suffering from distress, that distress was relieved not only by what was voluntarily contributed in that country, but there was a large subscription of money in this country. If it was true that England had been nearly ruined, surely the people here ought not to have been expected to subscribe to relieve distress in a country which was not ruined by a system of Poor-laws. The noble Earl said that charity did every thing in Ireland. He feared that whatever it might be on the noble Earl's estate, or on the estates of other noble Lords who resided on their property in Ireland, it was not so everywhere. His feeling was so strong on the subject, that he should have proposed a resolution if the Government had not taken up the matter last Session, and recommended a Commission. He was sorry that the Commissioners had not made a Report at this moment; he hoped that they would do so this Session, and that they would express their opinion as to the practicability, and as to the expediency, of establishing Poor-laws. He hoped that, in his Majesty's Speech next year, this subject would be distinctly recommended to the consideration of Parliament.
The Earl of Limerickdenied that the difficulty of finding men to work the Poor-laws in Ireland had been overcome. On the contrary, the difficulty was greater than ever. The south and south-west of Ireland, 1203 he said nothing of the north, had fallen into the hands of the Roman Catholic priesthood. If the Poor-laws were enacted they were the persons who would have all the power that those laws could confer—they would levy the taxes and the imposts on that unfortunate people—then would be the day for the success of an agitator, and the incomes of the priesthood would be raised higher than that which any of their Lordships possessed. That unfortunate country which had been more subject than any other country in Europe to confiscations would then suffer more than ever from that cause. Instead of hoping to see the Report of the Commissioners, he should be glad if it could be kept back to the Greek Kalends; but whenever it did come, he hoped that they should find the observations on it of men who were personally acquainted with the country and its habits.
§ Petition laid on the Table.