Lords Sitting of 3 March 1834

MINUTES.
Petitions presented. By Lord KENYON, from Woore and Mucclestone, for Protection to the Established Church.—By Earls GREY and DURHAM, and by Lords DACRE, POLTIMORE, and LYTTLETON, from a Number of Places, for Relief to the "Dissenters.—By Lord DACRE, from St. Leonard's, Shoreditch, for the Repeal of the House and Window Taxes.—By the Earl of MANSFIELD, from Tillicoultry, for a Change in the System of Church Patronage in Scotland; and by Earl GREY, and the Earl of ROSEBERY, from several Places in Scotland, to the same effect.—By Earl GREY, from a Congregation in Bethnal Green, for Protection to the Established Church; and from a Number of Places, against any Alteration in the Corn Laws.—By the Earl of ROSEBERY, from certain Medical Practitioners of Manchester, for the Revision of the Apothecaries Act.—By the Bishop of BANGOR, from Carnarvon, for the Better Observance of the Sabbath.

PROXIES—JEWISH DISABILITIES.
The Marquess of Westminstersaid, that their Lordships would probably recollect, towards the close of last Session of Parliament, he stated it to be his intention, early during the present Session, of bringing under the consideration of the House a motion relating to their Lordships' proxies—whether or not it would be advisable to make an alteration in the practice which had long prevailed upon that subject. He believed the topic had never been brought before the House, except accidentally, since the year 1816. With a view of redeeming his pledge, he now begged to give notice, that he should, on Thursday next, submit such a motion to the House as that to which he had made allusion. He was desirous of taking that opportunity of asking a noble Lord, whom he saw opposite, and who last Session brought the subject relating to the removal of the disabilities affecting the Jews before the House, whether he should again, during the present Session, submit a similar measure for the adoption of their Lordships?
Lord Ellenboroughhoped, that the noble Marquess would not bring under the consideration of the House, on Thursday next, that Motion which he had just named. That was much too early a day, espe-

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cially with so short a notice, to submit a Motion upon a subject which so nearly affected the interests and privileges of the House. He knew that several noble Lords who were now absent, were anxious to be present when the subject was introduced, and they could not possibly be in attendance so soon as the day named. He, therefore, hoped the noble Marquess would not, for two or three weeks, at least, bring the Motion in question forward.
Lord Bexleywas not prepared, after what had occurred in relation to the subject of the Jews, in that and the other House, to take up again that measure of relief to which the noble Marquess had called his attention.
The Marquess of Westminsterhaving given notice, towards the conclusion of last Session, of his intention to submit a Motion relating to proxies, at an early period during the present Session, felt bound to redeem his pledge, and had thus early come forward; but, at the same time, he should have no objection to postpone the Motion until after the Easter recess, if it were likely to be attended with inconvenience to any of their Lordships to discuss it at an earlier period.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, in reference to the subject which had been incidentally introduced—he meant that which was connected with the disabilities affecting the Jews—he rose to offer a very few words. No person could feel more strongly than he did upon that subject; but he would throw out for the consideration of his noble friend, whether it did not tend to retard the success of a measure to make it the subject of a yearly Motion. He had generally observed, that the tendency of such yearly Motions was to slacken the interest which Parliament and the country might feel in it. He believed, that the great question of Parliamentary Reform had been retarded by such a course, and that such was the case also with another great question—Catholic emancipation. Those questions might have lasted for years, had not the habit of yearly bringing them forward been suspended. As he had before said, no man felt more strongly than he did, in favour of the measure for relieving the Jews, but he was quite convinced, by making it a yearly question, his noble friend would lessen the chances of its success.
The subject was dropped.

THE DISSENTERS—IMPRESSMENT.
The Earl of Durhampresented several Petitions from Dissenters in different parts of the country, from parishes in Northumberland, Durham, Nottinghamshire, and Leicestershire, praying for the removal of the grievances affecting them. Two of the petitions prayed for the separation of the Church from the State. To this prayer he would not give his assent. With regard to every other object except that, he expressed his concurrence; for he thought, with that exception, which applied to the two petitions, the petitioners prayed for nothing which ought not to be granted. He deeply lamented, that the Bill which had been introduced by his noble friend (Lord John Russell) in the other House of Parliament upon the subject complained of by the petitioners did not go far enough. He, however, trusted that his noble friend and relative (Earl Grey) would consider the matter with a view to grant relief to the Dissenters. For his own part, he believed, the time had arrived when the just and reasonable prayer of the petitioners ought to be conceded. The noble Earl also presented two petitions against the impressment of seamen—the first from Kingston-upon-Hull, signed by 5,776 persons, and the second from Stock-ton-upon-Tees. He felt great satisfaction in presenting these petitions—in saying, that it was the opinion of some of the most distinguished officers, that impressment might be dispensed with. He hoped, therefore, a plan might be devised by which the services of the seamen might be obtained without having recourse to such an objectionable means of getting them as impressment.
Earl Greysaid, that with respect to the question of impressment, his Majesty's Government did not entertain the most remote wish to do anything that would tend to prevent the subject from being fully considered, for the purpose of ameliorating and rendering the system as little obnoxious as possible; but, as to wholly giving up the power of impressment, especially at the commencement of a war, that he thought was impossible, without endangering—nay, without destroying—that naval superiority on which the greatness of this country was founded. He agreed with his noble friend, and with several other noble Lords, in saying, that the claims of the Dissenters ought to be taken into the serious consideration of the

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Legislature, for the purpose of affording; relief; and when his noble friend lamented, that the measure now in progress for that purpose did not go further, he should merely observe, that that measure embraced only one subject. But he begged leave to say, that his noble friend and the public should not, therefore, infer that the other subjects connected with this question were not under the consideration of his Majesty's Government. He agreed with his noble friend, that several of the disabilities complained of ought to be done away with. Ministers had turned their serious attention to this question, in the hope and expectation of giving extensive relief to the Dissenters, if not entirely removing those objects of complaint which were mentioned in the different petitions. His noble friend could not feel more anxious than he did, to afford relief where cases occurred of real and decided grievance; and he was happy to find, that his noble friend concurred with him in opinion, that while the Legislature granted relief, they ought to keep steadfastly in view the necessity of supporting the Established Church.
The Earl of Durhamwas sure, after what his noble friend had said, that every disposition existed on the part of his Majesty's Government to give to the Dissenters all such relief as could be reasonably required by them. He was extremely glad to hear that the Bill then in progress did not comprise all the relief for the Dissenters that was intended. With respect to the subject of impressment, he did not think that the abandonment of the system generally would tend to destroy the maritime greatness of this country. By giving proper encouragement, he conceived that a sufficient number of sailors could be procured without the impressment of any class of persons. He would not object to an Order in Council authorizing impressment under peculiar circumstances, but he could not agree to the adoption of the system as a general principle.
Petitions laid on the Table.