HL Deb 25 July 1834 vol 25 cc464-9
The Earl of Winchilsea

rose for the purpose of putting a question to the noble Viscount at the head of the Government, with the view of getting a clear and distinct statement as to the principles which his Majesty's Ministers intended should guide them with reference to the foreign and domestic policy of the country. If they looked at the position in which the country now stood, it must appear to every one that there were questions at issue affecting all classes of the community. Indeed, he would venture to say, that there never was a period in the history of this country when information as to the course of policy adopted by his Majesty's Government was more generally or more imperatively called for. Any charge of factious motives with respect to his opposition was most unjustly founded. He could put his hand on his heart, and honestly declare that, of all the votes he ever gave against the measures of the present Government, not one of them had been influenced by factious motives, nor did he ever enter into any bond of union with persons on that side of the House for the purpose of getting up a factious opposition. With respect to the two measures formerly alluded to by the noble and learned lord on the Woolsack, his opposition to them had been on conscientious grounds. He had never wished, nor did he wish at present, to embarrass in any way his Majesty's Government; and, however much he might differ from the opinions of the members of that Government, he had no wish to prevent them from carrying useful measures by an unnecessary and uncalled for opposition. He could honestly say, that he had not the slightest desire to increase the difficulties under which the present Government laboured—difficulties which all must acknowledge were unparalleled in the annals of this country—which no human wisdom or legislation could meet and successfully encounter. He contended that the balance of power in this country was completely destroyed, and he trusted, that the noble Viscount opposite, who was now at the head of his Majesty's Government, would make the communications that were demanded of him. With respect to foreign countries, he would beg their Lordships to look to Spain and Portugal—ay, to Portugal—for it was a grievous mistake to imagine that the contest in this latter country was ended. That contest would be renewed by the partisans of that prince who was now an exile, but whom the people of Portugal looked upon as their rightful monarch. He was their lawful prince, not expelled from Portugal by the people of that country, but driven from it by the gold and warriors of England. He begged to call the attention of the House to the situation Portugal was in, and he asked whether it was not the duty of the present Government to give their Lordships some information as to the line of policy intended to be pursued with respect to that country. If they cast their eyes towards Holland, they would see a prince and a people who had been most cruelly used, and who were only waiting for a fit opportunity to avenge the injuries they had received. He would ask the Government, therefore, whether they had made any pledges as to the line of foreign policy they were inclined to adopt, whether they intended to interfere in the internal regulations of other countries, and whether they had pledged this country to that effect? He called upon the noble Viscount, in order to know from him whether any interference on the part of this country was intended respecting Spain? He asked this question because he had read in the journals of the day, that certain vessels, supposed to be conveying arms to Spain in favour of the cause of Don Carlos, had been stopped. He desired to know whether those vessels had been arrested by order of the Government of this country. He also desired to be informed whether any compact had been entered into between this country and France respecting Spain, and respecting Don Miguel. Was this country pledged to France to aid her in forwarding her objects with respect to Spain and Portugal? Upon those subjects he sought for specific information at the hands of the existing Government. The Table of that House was groaning beneath the petitions of the people, complaining that their sources of wealth and greatness had been dried up and destroyed. He called upon the noble Viscount to state whether the Government of which he was the head were determined or not to uphold the institutions of the country, to support the Church and State, to support the Church of Ireland; and whether they intended honestly to correct the abuses of those institutions, to reform the Church of Ireland, but not to surrender a particle of the property that belonged to that Church. He asked those questions in order to afford the noble Viscount an opportunity of stating the line of policy he meant to pursue, and the measures he intended to adopt in the present awful state of the country. The noble Viscount would, he hoped, state the course of foreign and domestic policy he intended to pursue. For his own part he held, that the principle of non-interference in the internal regulations of other countries ought to be strictly adhered to, if Government wished to uphold the institutions of this country, which institutions every person and every Government ought to respect.

Viscount Melbourne

said, that with every intention to pay that attention and respect to the noble Earl which he deserved, he must say, at the same time, that he found it extremely difficult to comprehend the nature of the noble Earl's questions, and of course extremely difficult to give an answer to them. The noble Earl said, that he rose to put two questions, and the noble Earl had prefaced them by a speech, into the multifarious topics of which he did not feel it necessary on the present occasion to enter. He must repeat, indeed, that he did not precisely understand the nature of the noble Earl's questions. The noble Earl seemed to think, that it was some imputation on him, that he had not followed the example of those who had preceded him in the situation which he at present filled, in making a statement as to the general principles on which the Government would be conducted. Looking, however, at the peculiar situation in which the present Government stood—seeing that it was not in any respect a new Government, that it was in fact only a renewal of the old Government, with the loss of one member, whose loss all must deplore,—seeing that there were no persons in the present Government who had not been, in some situation or other, connected with the former Government—taking all these circumstances into consideration, he thought that they constituted a sufficient guarantee, without any necessity for a specific declaration on the part of the head of the Government, as to the principles upon which the present Government would be conducted, and as to the views and measures which they had in contemplation. The former Government had existed more than three years. The measures which it had proposed, the principles upon which it had acted, both as regarded foreign and domestic policy, were before the country, and there was nothing for him to do but to follow up those principles, suiting them to the circumstances of the times, and to the events that might possibly arise. The noble Earl had complained that factious motives had been imputed to noble Lords on that side of the House, and that they had been represented as desirous to embarrass his Majesty's Government. He was not aware that any such insinuations had ever been cast from that side of the House upon noble Lords opposite; at all events, he could say, that such insinuations had never proceeded from him. The noble Earl said, that he had given notice of his questions. That was a novel thing in Parliamentary practice, and he (Viscount Melbourne) could not exactly see the utility of it. When a notice of a Motion was given, the objects and purport of the Motion could generally be gathered from the nature of the notice; but it was quite a different thing as regarded a notice as to putting questions. A noble Lord might give notice to this effect—"I shall tomorrow ask questions as to foreign policy and domestic policy." Was there any possibility of collecting from such a notice the precise nature of the questions that might be asked? He did not think that he should be acting rightly if he should on this occasion allow himself to be led into a discussion of all the topics to which the noble Earl had adverted in his speech. With regard to the foreign policy of the Government, he would only say, that it would be conducted upon the principles upon which it had been already conducted, having in view the securing the peace of Europe, by the formation of such alliances as the circumstances of the times, and the situation of this country and of Europe, might require. With regard to the principle of non-intervention, every one was agreed that it should be the rule, but still it must be admitted that there were exceptions to the rule. Perhaps, however, he was wrong in entering so far into the particulars into which the noble Earl had gone. If the noble Earl felt, that his Majesty's Government had done anything wrong, or that they were pursuing a wrong course, he could bring the matter by Motion before the House, and it would be then for his Majesty's Ministers to defend themselves against the noble Earl's charges. If the noble Earl thought that the course of proceeding adopted by the Government should be changed, let him move an Address to the Crown to that effect, or let him move a Resolution of the House on the subject, and then it would be for his Majesty's Ministers to consider what it would be wise and prudent to say in reply to him. With regard to the internal policy of the Government, he would say, that it was their intention to uphold and maintain our institutions (he used the noble Earl's very words), at the same time adopting every well-considered reformation called for by the circumstances of the case, and demanded by the intelligent majority of the community. He conceived, that he had given a very clear and distinct answer to the questions of the noble Lord as regarded the foreign and domestic policy of the country. He had not accompanied that answer with observations in reply to those of the noble Lord, as he thought that such a course of proceeding was, to say the least of it, extremely inconvenient.

The Earl of Winchilsea

was not satisfied with the noble Viscount's explanation. It was absurd to say the present was not a new Ministry, for it had been expressly stated in both Houses, the other day, that "Lord Grey's Government was at an end, and a new one in course of formation."

The Earl of Radnor

rose to order. The noble Earl had set out with saying, he only wished to put a question or two; he had put two questions in a very lengthy speech, and had gained his answer; yet he had now got up again to address the House on the same subject, though a subject of very great importance was waiting the consideration of their Lordships.

The Marquess of Londonderry

wished to ask, whether it was by the noble Viscount's orders, that certain vessels which had been armed and were about to be forwarded to Spain, had been arrested?

Viscount Melbourne

said, he did not know, as a matter of fact, that the circumstance mentioned by the noble Marquess had really occurred.

The subject was dropped.