Lords Sitting of 6 August 1834

MINUTES.
Bills. Read a second time:—Fever Hospitals (Ireland); Land Tax Amendment; Assessed Taxes Composition; Militia Ballot Suspension; Stamp Duties Relief; Militia; Insolvent Debtors Act (Ireland) Continuance; Dean Forest Boundaries.—Read a third time:—Arms' Importation (Ireland).
Petitions presented. By the Archbishop of CANTERBURY, and the Marquess of BUTE,—from several Places, for Protection to the Established Church.—By the Earl of GOSFORD, from Greenock, for the Abolition of Impressment; also for Mail Conveyances by Steam Boats between all Places where Steam Boats regularly ply.

POST OFFICE.
The Earl of Gosfordpresented a petition from Glasgow, for the abolition of the impressment of seamen; and one from the Chamber of Commerce of Greenock, complaining that the mails were not forwarded by steam boats along the river Clyde.
The Duke of Richmondsaid, he should take that opportunity to make a few remarks on the subject to which the petition referred. The petitioners complained, that letters were not transmitted by steam packets along the Clyde, from which they averred that great inconvenience arose. Now, with reference to what had been stated on this subject in another place, he had called on the parties who were particularly alluded to as being most interested in the matter, and he found that, so far from the statement to which he referred being true, the fact really was, that the Post Office took the opportunity, whenever it could he done with advantage, of transmitting letters by the steam-packets; and the noble Duke mentioned the names of several places on the Clyde with respect to which that course had been adopted. Certain parties wished that the Irish mail, with reference to some places in that

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country, should not take the route by Portpatrick. That would have been found inconvenient; and he felt it to be his duty to refuse the application. That was now made the subject of complaint by the petitioners. All that he regretted was, that those parties did not inquire minutely into the matter, and inform themselves thoroughly of all the circumstances, especially of the local circumstances connected with the case. This petition he had every reason to believe was got up by an individual who had distinguished himself elsewhere by his opposition to the Post Office department, an opposition which the facts did not by any means warrant, for he believed that there was not a department under the Government in which more zeal was displayed. In touching on that point, he felt it necessary to notice a publication sent forth by Mr. Barrow, called The Mirror of Parliament; and he would state there, in his place, that that publication was not a report of a speech actually made in another place. It was corrected by the individual to whom he had alluded, and was a garbled statement of what that individual really said. The public of Glasgow had stated to him (the Duke of Richmond) by their Representatives, that they were satisfied with what had been done by the Post Office, by which the transmission of letters by the mail was considerably accelerated. He had received a memorial, signed by many of their Lordships and by several Members of the other House of Parliament, requesting him to send the Glasgow mail through another part of Nottinghamshire. He had refused his assent to the proposition, because he understood, that if it were complied with, it would create an additional delay of five minutes; and he knew that a loss of five minutes in one place and five in another was likely to prove a very serious detriment to the Glasgow merchants. This showed that he was not unmindful of their interests. He should only say, with respect to the report that had been published in The Mirror of Parliament, that it contained no less than forty-one charges against the Post-office Department. He wished that the individual who made them could induce some one of their Lordships to bring those forty-one charges under consideration. In that case he would undertake to prove, to the satisfaction of the House,
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that there was not one of them which was true. He did not, however, conceive that he was called on formally to repel in that House vague attacks that had been made elsewhere; but he did feel that it was an act of justice to stand up there and state his opinion of the Gentleman who was at the head of the Post Office department, who had for many years filled a most confidential situation in that department. He was an individual who on every occasion deserved, and who on many occasions had received the approbation of the country at large. It was too bad, after having been for such a long time a faithful servant of the public, that that individual, who was not in Parliament, and therefore could not defend himself, was to be attacked in a rude manner. He should only say, that when he was at the head of the Post Office Department, whenever he found it to be his duty to disagree from the opinion of that honourable man, when he differed on any point from that active and intelligent officer, that officer always showed as much zeal in carrying any suggestion of his (the Duke of Richmond's) into execution as if it had been his own. It had been made matter of complaint, that he had refused to allow French letters to be delivered on Sunday; and this it was said he had done, because, forsooth, he wished Sir Francis Freeling and other persons in the Post Office Department to pass the day at their country-houses. With respect to Sir Francis Freeling, he had had no country-house for the last one-and-twenty years, and had no leisure, or very little leisure, for relaxation. He had refused the delivery of letters from France, on very different grounds, and what he considered very good grounds. If letters from Paris were delivered on the Sunday, how could he well refuse the delivery of letters from all parts of the country? If it were admitted in the one case, he knew not how it could be refused in the other; and, though he had not voted for all the Sunday Bills which had been introduced, still he would not consent to desecrate the Sabbath by such a proceeding. If he had allowed French letters to be delivered on the Sunday, the consequence would be, that the merchants must remain in their counting-houses on that day. If they did so, their clerks must attend likewise, for the purpose of copying, thus making Sunday as much

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a day of business as any one day in the week. Now, he certainly never would consent to any such measure. It would also operate as a very great hardship on individuals in the Post Office. Some of these who were members of the Established Church might be enabled to attend divine worship, but many others, owing to the hours at which they were employed, would be debarred from attending divine service. Now, he was perfectly satisfied, that a great many individuals in that department would sooner resign their offices than consent to such an arrangement. In what he had said, he could assure their Lordships that he was actuated by no personal hostility towards Mr. Wallace. On a former occasion Mr. Wallace had treated him ill; and when a man acted so, he often, in consequence, felt a greater degree of hostility towards the individual whom he had ill-treated than was entertained by the person ill-treated. He attributed to that gentleman no improper motive, and he was the less willing to notice the course that gentleman had taken, because he was not present to defend himself. It was possible, and he hoped it might be so, that Mr. Wallace was only the dupe of designing persons; and had been made the channel of communicating to the public gross libels against a department which he would there fearlessly stand up and say would bear a comparison with the best-conducted establishments in any country. He hoped it would be felt that he had not on this occasion trespassed on their Lordships' attention without some cause. He had deemed it necessary to make these observations, because he felt that this petition was directed against the department with which he had been connected, and which he was confident did not deserve censure. The only reason which he had to regret having occupied the attention of their Lordships so long was, because it would perhaps prevent his noble relation behind him from stating his sentiments on the subject, and doing justice to this department; an object which he could effect with much more ability than he possessed.
The Marquess Conynghamconcurred in every sentence that had fallen from his noble friend; and he must say, that a more unjust charge, a more gross misstatement of facts, had seldom appeared than that which had been alluded to.
Petition to lie on the Table.

VOTE BY PROXY.
The Marquess of Westminsterwished to take that opportunity of stating to their Lordships, that his opinion with respect to the subject of proxies, to which he had on former occasions called their attention, remained unchanged. He meant to have brought that important subject forward at an early period of the Session; but he had been requested not to introduce it at that particular time, on the suggestion that such a question should not be brought forward without the most serious consideration. In consequence of that request, he then put it off. After sonic time he was again prepared to bring it forward, but he was prevented by circumstances. So convinced was he that this anomalous and absurd practice tended to make their Lordships unpopular in the country—not only considering what had formerly occurred, but looking to what had happened even within a few days—that he was more than ever confirmed in his opinion that this subject was not only worthy of, but demanded, their serious attention; and, in truth, it appeared to him, that it would be decorous if their Lordships would at once give up the privilege. He expected to see, both in the ecclesiastical and civil department, the most piercing, the most searching Reform. Unless questions of that nature were brought forward by Ministers with a determined design to act in a manner the most satisfactory to the inhabitants of this country—unless the Government were determined to act with vigour and sincerity—he feared that they would not long remain in those places where he was very glad to see them at present.