HL Deb 07 August 1832 vol 14 cc1172-3

Viscount Melbourne presented the Report of the Select Committee on this Bill.

The Marquess of Westmeath

inquired, if it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to press the Irish Juries Bill through Parliament during the present Session?

Viscount Melbourne

replied, that certainly it was their intention to do so.

The Duke of Wellington

wished to know if his Majesty's Government had received any Report upon the subject from the Irish Judges.

Viscount Melbourne

said, that they had not, but the measure was of such a nature that, nevertheless, they thought it their duty to proceed with it.

The Duke of Wellington

understood, at an early period of the Session, that it was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to consult the Judges of Ireland upon the subject of this Bill. He could not help saying, that it appeared to him most extraordinary that their Lordships should be called on, in such circumstances, and at the present period of the Session, to pass a Bill of this description, particularly when he coupled it with the circumstance that another Bill relating to the administration of justice in Ireland, and perhaps of still greater importance than this, was about, be believed, that very night, to be introduced into the oher House of Parliament.

Viscount Melbourne

had never undertaken to obtain the opinion of the Irish Judges. The Lord Chancellor and the Attorney General of Ireland concurred in the expediency of passing the Bill, and, when it was printed, their Lordships would see that it amounted to little more than a consolidation of the existing laws.

Lord Wynford

could see no necessity for pressing the Bill at this period of the Session, and in the present state of the two Houses of Parliament. It was impossible that the measure could be wanted immediately in Ireland, as the Circuits were nearly over. He submitted that, as his Majesty's Government had neglected to obtain the opinions of the Irish Judges, it was a little too much for them to press forward the measure in a state of the House in which to talk of legislation was an insulting mockery. [The average attendance of Peers for many nights back had not been above eight or nine.] It would be at least four or five months before the measure could be wanted. He had referred to the state of their Lordships' House, but what was the actual condition of the other House of Parliament? Was not a measure at this moment about to be introduced there in order to amend the all-perfect Bill of Reform? And would not this be quite enough for them to attend to for the remainder of the Session, without the additional burthen of this Bill which his Majesty's Ministers proposed to send them? He believed that not one, but several. Bills would be required to perfect the scheme of Reform; for, if he was rightly informed, there had never at any period been so much bribery going on as at the present moment.

Viscount Melbourne

said, that the Bill would not come into operation until 1834, and its object was not to alter but to preserve the present practice. Had the object been to alter the present practice, there would have been some weight in the noble and learned Lord's observations.

The Marquess of Westmeath

said, that if the effect of the Bill would be to make the constitution of Juries more popular, he thought that, after the recent example of Kilkenny, the time was very badly chosen. Delay would not be injurious, as the Bill was not to come immediately into operation.

The Marquess of Lansdowne

said, that, as the Bill did not come into operation until the year 1834, there would be time enough, if necessary, to amend it. But, if it were not passed now, it would not come into operation until 1835.

Report laid on the Table.