§ The Earl of Aberdeensaid, that he rose, pursuant to notice, to present a Petition from the Merchants, Ship-owners, and Manufacturers, concerned in the trade to Portugal. The petitioners complained, that a trade which had been so long protected and supported by this country, and which had proved, for a series of years, so beneficial to the nation at large, and all those who were connected with it, should now be exposed to so many interruptions, and to such a variety of embarrassments. The petitioners expressed their fears, that the measures which had been proposed by his Majesty's Ministers had had the effect of suspending the amicable relations which formerly existed with Portugal, and they apprehended that those measures, which they were afraid his Majesty's Ministers intended to continue, would expose our commerce with that country to still greater danger. The difficulties arising from this state of things, and from the different interests they involved, were not, it should be observed, to be examined in a mere commercial point of view. The fact was, that a state of feeling had been excited by those proceedings, which, however new or unprecedented, exposed the personal safety of our countrymen in Portugal to great danger and considerable hazard. Their Lordships would have, on a future occasion, a proper opportunity of discussing the commercial policy of his Majesty's Ministers, as they were disposed to regulate it with respect to that country. When these matters came before the House, he should 1097 be quite prepared to state his opinion on that subject; but it was to him perfectly clear that this trade—this important trade—could not go on with prosperity, and receive that development of which it was capable, unless an alteration took place in the political relations of this country with Portugal. Looking to the present conduct of the Government towards Portugal, he must say, that it would be difficult to maintain such a system and preserve even the simple relation of peace with any other State. Why, then, the Ministers should adopt it towards a country with which they were more intimately connected than with any other on the whole face of the earth, he was utterly at a loss to conceive. The nature of our treaties with Portugal—the great privileges enjoyed by British subjects in that country—the almost unbounded licence possessed by Englishmen residing there—all these privileges and immunities were incompatible with any other than a state of the most perfect friendship and cordiality. Any encroachment upon the principles which formed the foundation of such a state of things, must lead to estrangement, and that soreness of feeling, which never could exist, and peace be preserved, between any other nations than those that were, as intimately connected as England and Portugal. In truth, the relations of this country with Portugal had always resembled more those of a mother country and its colony, than the relations of two independent States; and the French, always jealous of that close connexion, had called Portugal the colony or the factory of England. He was persuaded that the state of things of which these petitioners complained could not exist much longer. The petitioners thought, that to attempt to continue the present suspension of those friendly relations which had subsisted for ages between the two countries, would be most injurious to the interests of their fellow-subjects in this country as well as those who resided in Portugal; that it would be most unjust to the Portuguese nation; that it would place in jeopardy the tranquillity of the whole Peninsula, and that it could not be continued without danger to the peace of Europe. In bringing the subject of Portugal thus under consideration, he was induced to do so specially with a view to the improvement and consolidation of the relations of Great Britain with that country. He 1098 should therefore strictly confine himself to that point—he should consider the fair construction of the principles on which those relations were founded. It was very possible that some of the noble Lords opposite might, as they had formerly done, impute to him, in taking the course which duty alone induced him to take, feelings of partiality towards the government and the ruler of Portugal, and a tendency to favour both the one and the other. Now, he really knew not at what time or by what means he had shown that he was favourable to such principles as those which noble Lords had reprobated. Without, perhaps, speaking so loudly and so frequently as some of the noble Lords opposite had done on the subject of free and liberal institutions, he believed that he respected the rights and feelings of nations and individuals as much and as highly as any of those noble Lords did. In considering this question there were many points to be included, and he confessed that he looked not so much to the Government under which the Portuguese lived, as to what was due to the honour of this country in dealing with an old ally. That the government of Portugal was absolute and despotic he well knew; and, as such, it might be considered as founded on errors which abstractedly deserved reprobation. But he knew, also, that it had existed for ages—he knew, also, that under it the relations of Portugal with England had originated, had increased, and were confirmed and strengthened. It was an indisputable fact that those relations were cemented by a Government thus formed, and it was no less a fact that our obligations to a Government so constituted, were honourably fulfilled. As to the influence of England in upholding Portugal, he should say little, for the subject was painful to him. His error, if it were one, might easily be corrected, when he said, that, within a short period, the French flag had, for the first time in the history of those countries, been known to domineer, without control, in Portugal. The question to which he called the attention of the House had nothing to do with the constitution of Portugal. He believed that the king had little disposition to grant, and the people but little wish to receive, such a constitution as some individuals wished to introduce. But, as he reasoned the case, the feeling on their part with respect to a constitution 1099 formed no justification on our part for any change in those friendly relations which had existed from a very remote period between those countries—Portugal and England. There never was any thing more true than a declaration made by the late Mr. Canning, two months before his death, in which he plainly stated "that the vast majority of the people of Spain were hostile to any constitution like that which was proposed to be given to them." The same observation would equally apply to Portugal. They might rail as much as they pleased at priests and nobles—they might censure as much as they pleased illiberals and anti-constitutionalists—but the fact was indisputable, that the people were not favourable to any change. And really, after the recent examples which they had had of the changes produced by revolution, he was not sure that they could be quite certain that a great benefit would be derived from the promulgation of new constitutions, as many individuals seemed to suppose. Let their Lordships look to the example of France and Belgium, and to other precedents: what lesson did they derive from them? When they saw the misery, the bankruptcy, the discontent, the universal distress, to which these revolutions gave rise, they might surely allow other countries the right to hesitate a little before they rushed forward to make a great and extensive alteration in their system of government. He knew not whether their own experience in the interference with the constitution of other States had been so eminently successful as to render them zealous, and, he might say, over-anxious to proceed further, and to attempt to extend to Portugal a constitution to which the people, however unwilling, should be obliged to bow. This system reminded him much of the father who was determined to make his daughter happy even against her will. He alluded to the well known Squire Western, in the novel of Tom Jones, who wished to marry his daughter contrary to her inclination. "Rot her," said the Squire, "she shall be happy though I break her heart for it." This he thought, was precisely the case here, and surely the nation had as much right to please itself as the lady. We wished to make the Portuguese nation happy, but they did not desire to be made happy in our way. What, then, was to be the termination of this system? Was it intended that the 1100 suspension of these relations, which had already continued too long, was to be indefinite? What obstacles were there, he wished to know, to prevent the renewal of our political relations? And if there were such obstacles, how were they to be overcome? These questions he put forth broadly, and he trusted, that they would be satisfactorily answered. The noble Earl had made his Majesty, in the Speech from the Throne "regret his not having been yet able to renew his friendly relations with Portugal." He wanted to know what it was, that prevented his Majesty from renewing those relations? It certainly could not be the supposed usurpation of Don Miguel—for certainly no usurpation ever received such approval as his was known to have received. Don Miguel had acted as he pleased, without opposition. He had convened the States of the realm, according to the old-established custom and form. These States had unanimously accepted him: they had done more, they had declared him the legitimate monarch of Portugal; and the vast majority of the people had assented to the justice of that claim. They had thus continued to give him their allegiance for three years, under circumstances unparalleled in that or any other country; and, so far from having been done by foreign influence, it was accomplished in direct opposition to the wishes of almost all the Powers of Europe, and, he might almost say, in defiance of them, by the people alone. As far as usurpation was concerned, then, there was no ground for not renewing our political relations with Portugal, neither was the personal character of the monarch himself any objection. With respect to some of the measures of the Portuguese government, there was no man who more lamented their severity than he did; they must, on account of that severity, be revolting to their Lordships, and to every man who lived under a free and secure government. But, in considering this subject, their Lordships should take into account what the situation of that country is, and had been. Whenever counsel had been offered to that government, with a view to mild and conciliatory measures, it always met us with this answer—"We desire to be kind; we desire to be merciful; but we must first have the support which your Government and all Europe can give us, before we can afford to adopt that course." Therefore, 1101 he said, that this country had been (as he had always contended) accountable, in a great degree, for the conduct which the government of Portugal pursued, and which it believed to be best calculated for its own protection. With respect to the cruelties which that government was said to have perpetrated, he would not pay so ill a compliment to the understanding of their Lordships, as to suppose that they could credit such monstrous things. He had not the slightest doubt, that they had been greatly exaggerated. He had been assured by Englishmen—gentlemen—officers—men of high character and honour, who had been ocular witnesses of much that had occurred in Portugal, that much absurd and gross exaggeration had been sent forth on this subject. He would state one fact, which, upon this point, might be taken as an example. From an account which had been shown to him, it appeared, that in the course of the last three years, there were only twenty-two persons executed in Lisbon. That fact could not be mistaken. This was a matter that occurred before the whole world. It was indeed said, and that was very easy to say, that thousands of people were in prison. Of course, no man but those immediately concerned could speak to this point; but here, also, it was likely, that there was much gross exaggeration. He thought that their Lordships would admit, that if, in three years, considering the situation in which the Portuguese government was placed, only twenty-two persons were executed, that could not be looked upon as a very extraordinary number. He, therefore, had a right to infer, with respect to the alleged acts of severity committed in Lisbon, that the greatest and most unfounded exaggerations had been sent abroad. But the noble Earl had, on a former occasion, asked, "If the title of king, as applicable to Don Miguel, were so good—if it were so universally received and allowed—why was he not acknowledged as the lawful monarch of Portugal long ago?" When that Prince returned to Portugal, shortly after he visited this country, he, undoubtedly, violated all those pledges which he had entered into at Vienna, and which he had repeated to his late Majesty. This total violation of his promises compelled his late Majesty to withdraw his Minister from Lisbon, in order to mark, with the strongest possible effect, his reprobation of Don 1102 Miguel's conduct. It was also true, that it was deemed incumbent on the Ministry, to lose no time to communicate with the Emperor, the father of the young Princess, and to apprise him of what had occurred. Ministers felt, that it was necessary to put him in possession of the real state of Portugal, and to lay before him the views which were entertained, in consequence of the events that had taken place there. At one time, the emperor of Brazil wished to terminate all feuds and disputes by negotiation. At one time, the negotiation was to be held in Brazil, and then it was proposed that it should take place in London. But it appeared, that such a course would consume a portion of time, far beyond what was reasonable. At last, however, Don Pedro came to the determination, that nothing should induce him to resort to hostilities—that he would settle all things by conciliation, and that this effect should be produced by the marriage of his daughter to Don Miguel. After all, however, his Majesty's Government did not think proper to favour that proposition, and it, therefore, became nugatory. But from that hour to the present, he had no reason to know, or to believe, that the proceedings which then took place, had in any way, altered the view which Don Pedro took, as to the political effect which the marriage of his daughter with Don Miguel was calculated to produce. Though his Majesty's Government determined not to communicate Don Pedro's proposition to Don Miguel, the whole of the negotiation was carried on honestly and fairly; and Ministers cherished the hope, that the time might come when their exertions would be effectual. During the continuance of that negotiation, no doubt his Majesty's Government was occupied in devising measures which would be beneficial to Portugal, and conducive to placing her relations with this country on that footing on which they had always previously existed and flourished. The measure which was most looked to, in reference to the furtherance of that object, was connected with the question of an amnesty. And here, he must so far do justice to the Portuguese government as to state, that he never saw, nor found, in that government, any reluctance to grant some measure of that nature. The great difficulty was, as to the form, and more particularly with reference to the time when such a 1103 measure should take effect. Much discussion, of course, arose on this subject; but at last all difficulties were overcome, and finally a modified proposition, in the nature of an amnesty, was proposed, and was sent to Lisbon on the very day, he believed, when he retired from office. Subsequent events had put an end to that proceeding, but he believed, that at the moment to which he had alluded, all difficulties were removed. An event of an important nature had since occurred—he meant the expulsion of the emperor Don Pedro from Brazil, and, therefore, the total absence of any State interested in the question. Don Pedro might make war against Portugal as a private individual—he might launch his forces into Portugal, and try the chances of civil war, but he could only do so as a simple individual. This event, therefore, removed what had been the first obstruction—indeed, he might say, what had always been the main obstruction—to the recognition of the present government of Portugal, and the renewal of friendly relations with that country. If the renewal of those relations were at all times desirable, the necessity for it had become doubly urgent and imperative since the French aggression against Portugal. He did not now intend to enter into any explanation with respect to the claims of France upon Portugal, or the injury which the former country pretended to have sustained. He would observe, however, that the noble Earl himself had never ventured to say, that he had examined those claims, and had found them to be just. Their Lordships were all able to form an opinion upon those claims, and he might safely appeal to the judgment of any impartial man with respect to them. Papers were to be laid upon the Table of the House, explanatory of the subject, and he was anxiously waiting to peruse them. He would, likewise, abstain from entering into discussion on the subject of our own claims. As far as he was able to form an opinion, he considered our claims on Portugal to be perfectly well founded. They grew out of the infraction of articles of treaties. The acts of which we complained, would not have been grievances, as between Portugal and France, or any two countries not bound by such peculiar treaties as connected us with Portugal. However improper he might consider the manner in which our claims had been 1104 prosecuted, he believed them to be in themselves substantially just. He now begged to direct their Lordships' attention to the manner in which the French claims had been prosecuted. He did not hesitate to declare, that it was the duty of the noble Lords opposite to have mediated between Portugal and France. Portugal appealed to us for this purpose over and over again, but a deaf ear was turned to her prayers: no advice, no counsel was given to Portugal, until the French expedition sailed from Toulon. The most important question on this subject was, not who could give the best explanation, but whose statement was the most true. He defied any one to contradict the statement which he should make. Whether the French claims were just or unjust, we were bound by treaties to mediate between her and Portugal, and if we found her claims unjust, we were bound to support the cause of Portugal. At all events, we were certainly bound to use our kind offices in the way of mediation. No explanation could remove the blame which attached to Government for not having done this. Without, however, inquiring into the nature or justice of the French claims, it was desirable to look at the mode in which they were prosecuted. On the 8th of July, the French ultimatum was delivered to Portugal. The Portuguese government, having then been advised by our Government, stated, that it was determined to follow the advice which had been given by the Government of his Britannic Majesty, and to release the two French subjects who were imprisoned. The French Admiral was not content with this answer, but forced the passage of the Tagus, and entered the port of Lisbon. On the 11th of July, the French Admiral stated, that the French, with their usual generosity, would not take advantage of their victory, but reserved to themselves the right of claiming indemnity for the expenses of the war. On the 12th of July, the French Admiral put forth another proclamation, in which, after passing a second eulogium on French generosity, he informed the Portuguese government, that the Portuguese fleet must, in future, be considered as French property. How was that to be reconciled with his declaration of the 11th, that he would treat with Portugal on the same conditions as before the victory? He could only account for the inconsistency 1105 by supposing, that between the declarations of the 11th and 12th, the French Admiral had received fresh instructions from his government. There was no other way of accounting for the remarkable change in his tone. He was sorry to understand, that certain high legal authorities had declared, that they considered the Portuguese fleet as good prizes of war to the French. If the noble Earl at the head of the Government would state that such an opinion had been given, or that he meant to act upon it, he trusted that he would be prepared to lay the opinion before the House; and not only the opinion, but the case upon which it was founded. He thought very highly of the King's Advocate; but the King's Advocate, like any other advocate, must give an opinion according to the case which was laid before him. It was undoubtedly true, that if the war were legitimate, there could not be a more legitimate prize than ships of war. But his doubt, nay, his assertion, was, that no legitimate war existed between France and Portugal. There was no declaration of war, there was no blockade established, there was no notice to foreign Powers; the Portuguese government clearly never performed any hostile act; it never issued letters of marque, nor confiscated the property of Frenchmen by way of retaliation. In short, no sign of war existed between the two countries. But it was said, that there was a declaration of war de facto. Then where was the treaty of peace? A war de facto could be understood, but who ever heard of a treaty of peace de facto? If war ever existed between France and Portugal, it existed at the present moment, for there had been no treaty of peace. It was clear, that the French government never considered, that a state of war existed. They made certain demands, which they enforced; but if war had existed, it could only be terminated by a treaty of peace. Either war existed at present, or it had never existed at all. He had not done with the French Admiral yet. On the 22nd of July, the French Admiral, in consequence of some accounts which had appeared, not in the Lisbon Gazette, but in some provincial Portuguese newspapers, which were not under the immediate supervision of the government, and not official, of the events which had occurred at Lisbon, refused to fulfil the conditions to which he had assented on 1106 the 10th, and proposed a convention, to the terms of which he requested the attention of their Lordships. He must express his unqualified astonishment that Ministers had declared, that the French Admiral had made no attempt to obtain commercial advantages for France, at the expense of England. He would take care, however, that no such declaration should be made in that House, because he had the convention in his hand. The French Admiral stated in this convention, that French commerce was very unfavourably treated as compared to that of England, and desired, that in all future treaties which might be made with France, French commerce should be placed on the same footing as that of the most favoured nation. If the Portuguese government had acceded to this proposition, what a clamour would have been raised against the faithless tyrant, who had made treaties to the prejudice of his best friends! But could we, with any justice, have complained if the Portuguese government had acted in this manner? Portugal, which we were bound to protect by treaties, had on this occasion known nothing of those treaties, except the obligations which we had exacted from her. The history of this convention, which consisted of eight articles, passed his comprehension. What was the state of Portugal and France at the time it was signed? Was it a state of war or of peace? By the fourteenth article of the convention of July 22nd, it was settled that, in consequence of the representation made by France of the disfavour shewn to the trade, viscount de Santarem engaged that, in case of any future treaty, the Portuguese government would be disposed to place the commercial relations between the two countries upon a footing reciprocally advantageous to France and Portugal. This article was not so binding as the one originally proposed, but we were not indebted to French generosity for that circumstance. Another article of the convention provides, that all French subjects in Portugal shall, in future, be placed under the jurisdiction of a Judge Conservator, a privilege certainly already possessed by British subjects, but demanded by the French Admiral to such an extent, that it was hardly possible to conceive how such a privilege could be conceded by one independent nation to another. Another article of the convention prohibited the Portuguese government from making any reparation of 1107 the fortresses of the Tagus during the stay of the French fleet. If peace followed the signature of the convention, what right had the French Admiral to prohibit the reparation of the fortresses? Some French ships were still in the Tagus. Was this condition to apply to their presence as well as to that of the ship of the French Admiral? He was aware that some persons considered our treaties with Portugal to be onerous. He was himself sometimes inclined to the opinion that we purchased the great advantages which we enjoyed from our connexion with Portugal at too dear a rate. But though these treaties were onerous, they were binding. The noble Lords opposite had shown what construction they put upon those treaties. He felt it difficult to repress the sentiments of shame and indignation which filled his bosom, when he reflected upon the treatment which the Portuguese government had received from this country. He had heard, that the French government proposed to assist Don Pedro in his hostile attempts against the Portuguese government. He had reason to believe, from those who were most likely to be best informed on the subject, that such intentions were avowed. Was the fleet in which Don Pedro would sail to be considered a Portuguese fleet or a French fleet? If it were a Portuguese fleet, what right had the king of France to interfere with it. If it were a French fleet, what a commentary would it furnish on the doctrine of non-intervention. Could the noble Earl opposite be so infatuated as not to perceive that any change produced in Portugal, be it what it might, by French means, must operate to the injury of this country? Did the noble Earl suppose, that the French cared a single straw for Don Pedro and his daughter? No, their object was to annihilate the predominant influence which we had so long possessed in Portugal. This had always been the aim of France, under the Bourbons, and Buonaparte, and now under Louis Philip. Without wishing to excite the jealousy of France, he must declare, that it had ever been the established policy of this country to look with a degree of vigilance and watchfulness at all her external proceedings, with the view of preventing the extension of her dominions, or of her influence over other States. If the noble Earl professed to act on any other principle, he would betray the interests of his coun- 1108 try. He would not talk of France being the natural enemy of this country, but he would say, that she was our natural rival, and the noble Earl might depend upon it that she never would lose an opportunity of obtaining an advantage at our expense. The question was one which nearly touched the safety of the whole Peninsula. It struck at the very existence of the Spanish monarchy; and he would ask the noble Earl whether the conduct of the Spanish government had been such as to deserve the peril in which it would be placed by the continuance of our present policy? He would ask him further whether he had not had much to unlearn on the subject of Spain, or whether he thought, that any government could have acted with more good faith, wisdom, prudence, and moderation, throughout the whole of the difficult transactions arising out of the state of Portugal than that of Spain had done? The question became doubly serious when it was connected with the safety of Spain. It ought to be our policy to unite the nations of the Peninsula into one friendly body. It would be most unfortunate should the tranquillity of Spain be interrupted at the present moment, because that country was making rapid progress in internal amelioration. The noble Earl would, he was sure, bear him out in that assertion. By our permitting plots to be formed in England contrary to treaties and the law of nations, Don Pedro might succeed in creating a convulsion in Portugal, he might carry the horrors of civil war into his native country—he might deluge the Peninsula with blood, but he would not ultimately succeed in overturning a throne or destroying institutions to which the vast majority of the people of Portugal were faithfully attached, and which they would defend. Having expressed these opinions, it might be expected that he should conclude with some motion on the subject; but that course he was not prepared to take on the present occasion. He thought it sufficient to call the earnest attention of the noble Earl to the very critical state in which the continuance of his policy would place this country, not only with respect to our ancient ally but the whole of the Peninsula, and to impress upon him the responsibility to which he would render himself liable. He only wished the noble Earl to consider the question, divested of all passion and prejudice; free from the sinister influence of 1109 those who surrounded him, and reflect upon what would be the consequences of his present policy upon the interests of England.—consequences which the noble Earl would be the first man to lament. With these observations, he begged leave to present to their Lordships the petition of the ship-owners and others engaged in the trade with Portugal.
§ Earl Greythought it very strange, that the noble Earl, in all the observations which he had made, did not confine himself to the petition which he had presented; nor had the noble Earl adverted to it as a topic of discussion in the whole of the speech which he had delivered. Neither had he given notice of the course which he intended to pursue. He was left to conjecture what course the noble Earl intended to pursue upon that occasion. How then could he have anticipated such a speech as the noble Earl had just made, and which was remarkable not only for the variety of its topics, but for the peculiar circumstance that the noble Earl had never given any notice of his intention to make it.
§ The Earl of Aberdeenbegged to interrupt the noble Earl. In answer to a question from a noble Marquis opposite, he had said, that he would enter into a discussion relative to our political relations with Portugal.
§ Earl Grey—That was a large and vague description, and it was not easy for him to conjecture to what particular topics the noble Earl would advert. When it was recollected that all discussion on the subjects to which the noble Earl had adverted had been by common consent abandoned, on account of the inconvenience which was likely to result from it, and when he had consented to produce papers which had been asked for, he certainly had a right to expect, that the noble Earl would not have entered into any debate of this nature until the documents were before the House. He, however, was not inclined to complain that the noble Earl had pursued a different course. He had listened with surprise to a great part of the noble Earl's speech. In the first place, the noble Earl had omitted to state the substance or the prayer of the petition, or how it was connected with the topics to which he had directed the attention of their Lordships. It appeared from what the Clerk had read of the petition, that it proceeded from certain merchants, who 1110 complained that their trade with Portugal was much deteriorated; and praying that Parliament would adopt measures to restore peace and harmony between the two countries. He was told, that the petition had been got up by a gentleman, who interested himself very warmly on behalf of the amiable monarch who occupied the Portuguese throne, whom the noble Earl himself some time ago spoke of as being almost an outcast from society, but whom he had now adopted as his protegé. The petition, he was further informed, lay at a coffee-house for signatures, but it was not a successful speculation, for only sixteen names were subscribed to it. The noble Earl must be aware that the measures which the Government had adopted for obtaining redress from Portugal, had been approved of by a large portion of the merchants engaged in the trade to that country. The noble Earl had indulged in violent invective against every thing which had been done by the French expedition. When the papers which had been promised should be laid upon the Table, it would not be difficult for him to prove, that Ministers were not deserving of the imputations which the noble Earl had attempted to fix upon them with reference to this subject. The noble Earl denied, that the French had sufficient cause to demand redress in the way they did. Into that question he would not enter. On a former debate the noble Duke opposite made a most valuable admission, by stating, that after the manner in which we had sought redress, it was hardly possible for us to interfere and prevent the French from seeking redress by the same means. The noble Earl stated, that we abstained from offering any advice to Portugal until the last moment, when it was too late. He did not know, that it was too late, even after the sailing of the French squadron, if redress had been frankly offered to the French government. He must, however, deny that this Government had not given advice to Portugal until that period. That fact would be set at rest when the documents should be produced. The noble Earl admitted, that ships of war would be legitimate prize if the war had been legitimate. He was not aware that we had any right to investigate the original cause of war. Whether the war were just or unjust, the question of prizes must be regulated by the usual law of nations. The noble Earl had expressed a wish that the opinion of the King's Ad- 1111 vocate should be produced. It was usual to consider opinions of this nature in the light of confidential communications. As far as he was concerned, he had no objection to their being produced. On the contrary, he was desirous that the noble Earl should see it, more especially as the noble Earl had insinuated that the case on which that opinion was founded was false and partial. Whether the case was of that description would be seen when the documents should be produced. He was astonished at the quarter from which the attack had come. He remembered, that when the opinion of a learned civilian was called for in that House upon another point, some time ago, the noble Earl, and those with whom he was connected, positively refused to produce it. When the noble Earl came down to that House, and talked of the shame and indignation which he felt at the conduct of Government, with an air of mixed solemnity and earnestness, he would beg him to recollect the case of Terceira. That case excited the interest of all Europe; but the noble Earl had never given any satisfactory explanation on the subject. Without touching upon the subject of our negotiations with the emperor of Brazil, he would proceed to the most important part of the noble Earl's statement—namely, the situation in which this country was with respect to Portugal, in consequence of the interruption of our diplomatic relations with that country. He was not inclined to undervalue the advantages of our connexion with Portugal. He lamented, as much as the noble Earl opposite, the unfortunate situation in which the two countries were placed with regard to each other, and which, he admitted, was productive, by its long continuance, of all the inconveniences which the noble Earl had described. But this state of things was not owing to the present Government. His Majesty's present Ministers had not yet been in office ten months; and this state of affairs had lasted three years. The noble Earl was, therefore, responsible for about two years of that time; and it certainly would be a heavy responsibility if, as the noble Earl had stated, the Government of this country were answerable for all the acts of Don Miguel. The noble Earl had ascribed as the cause of the delay in re-establishing friendly relations with Portugal, the negotiations which were in his time carried on with the emperor of the Brazils, 1112 the rights of whose daughter were acknowledged by this country, and the means taken by that prince to uphold those rights. The noble Earl considered that that difficulty was now entirely removed by the expulsion of Don Pedro from the Brazils. But he must be permitted to remind the noble Earl, that it was not on this ground only that the Government of this country abstained from renewing relations with Portugal, but likewise on account of the conduct of the Portuguese government itself; and there was one preliminary (he would not call it a condition, as the noble Earl denied that it was a condition, though he (Earl Grey) had not acuteness enough to distinguish between a preliminary and a condition), the compliance with which was thought essential to the recognition of the government of Don Miguel. The truth was, in some part of the year 1829 the government of Don Miguel was recognized by Spain, with the understanding between Spain and the governments of France and England, that when Don Miguel could be brought to adopt a better system of government, and one more fitted to be in a state of peace and amity with other nations, a general recognition by the Powers of Europe should follow. The noble Earl, subsequent to the year 1829, and down to the period of his leaving office, had never been able to obtain the establishment of such a system of government in Portugal as could induce him, notwithstanding all the inconveniences arising from the interruptions of our relations with that country, to send a Minister to the Court of Portugal, and recognize the prince whose title he now thought so well founded. A good deal of negotiation took place on the subject; and on the 17th of September, 1830, he found that the noble Earl, alluding in a despatch to the cessation of the relations between the two countries, used these words. "It is reasonable, therefore, to suppose that we should look with anxiety to the state of these relations, and I should only deceive them if I did not frankly declare, that there existed an obstacle in the way of any such change wholly insurmountable—[wholly insurmountable, my Lords]—by his Majesty's Government, which it depends on the Portuguese government alone to remove; and if that government continues to be of opinion that to grant a general and comprehensive amnesty such as I have adverted to, would 1113 not be in accordance with the interests, intercourse, and safety of Portugal, it will be utterly impossible for us to attempt to alter our present condition, and that of the other powers of Europe with respect to the Portuguese government. Important and desirable as this change may be, there are other still higher claims to be regarded, from which we can never recede—the honour of the King, and the consistent character of his Majesty's Government are at stake. An amnesty is due to those persons who have regulated their sentiments by the example of Great Britain, and what they conceive would be the probable conduct of their own Government. The issuing of an act of amnesty would be highly advantageous to Portugal herself, and is an indispensable preliminary to any change in the relations of the two countries." Thus it appeared, that on the 17th of September, 1830, the not granting of an amnesty was considered by the noble Earl to be an insurmountable objection to renewing the relations between the two countries. Since that period, had the situation of affairs materially altered up to the present moment? Had the noble Earl himself been able to obtain such an amnesty? On the first day of the last session of Parliament the noble Earl declared, that he had not obtained an amnesty. In the first instance the noble Earl had stated, that unless he received an authentic act of amnesty from Don Miguel, he would not recognize him. The noble Earl had since relapsed from that proposition, and said, that if he received an authentic copy of a decree, engaging to grant an amnesty, that would be sufficient, but no copy of any such decree had ever been obtained. True it was, that a despatch dated the 15th of November was sent off on the 16th, the day on which the noble Earl left office, in which the noble Earl stated his expectation that an amnesty would be issued. But the fact was, that no amnesty could ever be obtained, and both Mr. Mackenzie, and Mr. Hoppner, who succeeded him as Consul at Lisbon, received instructions to persevere in the demand for the issuing of an act of amnesty, and the establishment of such a state of things as might afford security to foreign merchants residing in Portugal. Those demands had all been made in the same spirit, and to the present moment no satisfactory answer had been obtained. When the noble Earl asked how long 1114 affairs were to continue in this indefinite state, he in reply would ask the noble Earl what was his conduct last year under similar circumstances? Since that period not only had no satisfactory answer been received from the Portuguese government on the subject of an amnesty, but during the interval the scenes of horror which had unhappily passed in that country, and for which it seemed the English Government were alone to blame, had been greatly multiplied. But, said the noble Earl, this arbitrary government was not at least a bloody government, for only twenty-two persons had suffered on the scaffold in the course of the last year. But the noble Earl passed lightly over the case of those persons who had been crammed into unwholesome dungeons, and the number of which their Lordships could scarcely credit. Clausi in tenebris cum mœrore et luctu, morte graviorem vitam exigunt. The noble Earl had passed over the exportation of victims to the pestilential shores of Africa, where, by a slow execution, they were consigned to death, for political offences, only suspected, and not proved. The noble Earl had also omitted to notice the miserable condition of that country, where the law afforded no protection, and where a wretch, at the head of a banditti, whom he called a police, was guilty of outrages against the subjects of every government. Before the noble Earl blamed the present Ministers for not establishing the relations of peace and amity with Portugal, he should be prepared to defend himself for not having established those relations under circumstances more favourable for the purpose than at present existed. He agreed with the noble Earl, that they had nothing to do with the form of other governments, or with the character of the Princes at their head. If there existed in any country a Sovereign de facto, supported by the people, and conducting himself in such a manner as to make it possible to maintain the usual relations of peace and amity with him, the business of British Ministers was to maintain those relations, without looking too nicely at his right to the Throne, or his moral character. He entirely subscribed to this proposition, on the principle of non-interference with other countries, to which the noble Earl had alluded. He must, however, observe, that he heard with considerable surprise, the attack made by the noble Earl on Ministers, for having endeavoured to force, 1115 as it were, a Constitution on the Portuguese. His Majesty's Ministers had interfered with Portugal in no other way but by remonstrances, which they had a right to make, to induce the Portuguese government to agree to those conditions, which must be complied with before the relations between the two countries could be restored. He knew that English interests were the peculiar care of Government, and he did not want the noble Earl's admonition to look carefully to those interests, though he might want some of the noble Earl's levity, in risking the peace of the world by declamations and invectives against other Powers. He trusted, that he should be found to look after these interests, and to provide the means of protecting them against the encroachments of other Powers, whether enemies or liberal rivals, as carefully and vigilantly as the noble Earl himself. The business of Ministers was undoubtedly to protect English interests; but he could not divest his mind of those feelings, or those principles, which he had imbibed from his earliest youth, and which taught him to believe that governments founded on principles of justice, and of which the conduct was regulated by those principles, were more to be trusted than those which depended on the arbitrary will of an individual. He had not hitherto, and trusted he never should, decline to enter into friendly relations with governments in a state of peace with this country, whatever might be their form, whether of a despotic nature, or founded on the principles of freedom. He did not think it was necessary for him to go further on the present occasion. Indeed, the noble. Earl's last observation appeared to make what he had already said almost superfluous; for the noble Earl stated, that having gone so much at length into the subject, he did not think the present the proper occasion to make any motion which might affect Government, and had confined himself solely to presenting the petition. The only question, therefore, before the House was, that the petition be laid on the table. The noble Earl had stated, that a day would come when he would more fully enter into the discussion. Whenever that day came, he should be ready to meet the noble Earl, or any other person, and he trusted that he should be able to show, that in what had been done or omitted by the Ministers, neither the honour nor the interest of the Govern- 1116 ment had suffered by any act of theirs, or from any circumstances but those which it was not in their power to counteract.
§ The Duke of Wellingtonhardly thought it necessary to justify his noble friend for the course which he had taken in presenting the petition, because the petition related specifically to British interests, as connected with Portugal, and to the interruptions which, as the petitioners stated, those interests were subject to in consequence of the existing state of our relations with that power. He was ready to admit, that the persons who had signed this petition, felt deeply on the subject, but the noble Earl opposite was mistaken in supposing that they were interested in behalf of the person of the Prince who sat on the Throne of Portugal. The noble Earl was likewise mistaken as to the number of the petitioners being only sixteen, and those of little importance in this great city. The fact was, that there were forty-two signatures attached to the petition, and if their Lordships read the names, they would find that some of the petitioners were principal merchants in London, and every one of them was interested in the trade with Portugal. He thought that the topics to which his noble friend had alluded, were precisely those upon which he ought to have addressed their Lordships, in calling their attention to the particular petition which had been presented. There was, however, one subject which his noble friend had deferred to another occasion—namely, that which regarded the wine trade of Portugal. His noble friend might have told their Lordships, that in this question of the wine trade, not only Portugal, but the whole of the Peninsula, and the Powers of Germany and Italy, were interested. The noble Lords opposite had thought proper, in order to favour France, whose trade with this country did not equal one-fifth of the trade with Portugal, to put the wines of the Peninsula and the rest of Europe on the same footing as those of France. That was to say, in order to favour France—a country which desired to have no intercourse with Great Britain, except for her own advantage—Ministers had resolved to put down the trade of Portugal, and discourage the trade of Spain, and all the rest of Europe. His noble friend did not touch on this point, because he did not wish to occupy the attention of their Lordships; but if he 1117 had done so, he might still further have shown the partiality of the noble Lords opposite for France, and their prejudice against Portugal. His noble friend, however, confined himself particularly to that part of the question which had reference to the political relations between this country and Portugal. The noble Earl, in replying to the observations of his noble friend, had availed himself of an admission formerly made by him, respecting the conduct of Ministers, in not interfering in favour of Portugal on the occasion of the French expedition. He confessed, that when he made that admission, he was not exactly aware of the circumstances which had occurred. He was not aware at the time that we followed the example of France, instead of setting the example. The truth of the matter was this:—The French brought forward their claims, consisting of ten Articles, on the 18th of March, and it was not until the 18th of April that our Ministers, in imitation of the French, urged their claims. When he made the admission to which the noble Earl had alluded, he imagined that the English Government had made its claim first; and that therefore it could not with justice call upon the French government to desist from following a similar course. But the fact was, that this country had followed the French example, and there really seemed a conspiracy between the two countries which should run down this unfortunate power of Portugal the fastest. The French Commodore came before Lisbon on the 18th of May, and after repeating his claims, went and seized on the merchant vessels and ships of war, in consequence of which seizure Portugal lost the island of St. Michael's. The noble Earl had stated, that although this country was bound by treaty to protect Portugal, yet, having interfered herself, she could not prevent France interfering in a similar manner. But might not mediation have been attempted? Even when the French Admiral was before Lisbon, it was not too late. War did not commence until the 8th of July, and there was plenty of time for this Government to have remonstrated with France—to have pointed out the inconvenience—he would almost say the indecency—of that country proceeding in such a manner with respect to the affair which was in dispute between the two countries. When he reflected on all that had passed, he really must say, not speak- 1118 ing as an officer of the British army, but as an Englishman, that he had never heard of anything which had filled his mind with more indignation than the conduct of the French Admiral. On the 8th of July, he repeated his claims as before, with the addition of four Articles; and he informed the Portuguese government, that if they did not adopt the Articles, war would exist de facto. On the 11th of July, the French Admiral wrote word, that France, always generous, added nothing to these terms, except compensation to those who had suffered by hostilities, when, in fact, the only persons who had suffered were two sailors, who had been hurt by the explosion of a ship. On the 12th the terms were agreed to, and on that day the demand was made for the surrender of the Portuguese fleet. Now he was not able exactly to say, whether, according to the law of nations, there existed war between the morning of the 10th of July, and the day on which Portugal accepted the conditions; but of this he was certain, that after the 11th, when the offer was made of the terms on which peace was finally arranged, no hostility existed. That was quite clear from the whole of the transactions. But, in the course of the correspondence, another very curious fact was brought out with respect to the shipping. The Portuguese shipping were not the first to fire on the French fleet; but the French fleet fired on the shipping. The Portuguese then fired on the French fleet, after having been fired on, and then struck their colours, and hoisted the French. The shipping, however, were not taken possession of at the moment; though they were afterwards surrendered on the demand of the French. Now, considering that the terms which had been accepted were offered on the 11th, and that no hostility had taken place after that day—that hostilities did not commence on the part of the Portuguese fleet, but of the French—he very much doubted whether the opinion of the King's Advocate was worth so much as that opinion which the noble Lord found fault with the late Government for not producing. There might, perhaps, have been some mistake, whether the French or Portuguese fleet was the first to fire, had it not been for a circumstance which afterwards occurred. The Portuguese Minister called upon the French Admiral to know what ships commenced firing; but to his 1119 inquiry no answer was ever given. Under these circumstances, he conceived that there was not the slightest doubt that, according to the law of nations, the Portuguese fleet was not a fair prize of war. It might have been made an article of capitulation; but he did not believe that, considering all the circumstances, it could be regarded as being a prize of war. One very important Article of the treaty of peace was, that the French fleet was to go away within a certain time; but it turned out, that since then another treaty had been made. In the first treaty, a demand was made for the cession of the fort St. Julian; and in the second treaty, it was required, that the fortresses of the Tagus should neither be reinforced nor repaired during the stay of the French fleet, and this, be it observed, was after peace had been settled between the two parties. Then a dispute arose out of an article which appeared in one of the Portuguese newspapers, published he believed, at Oporto and Coimbra. The French Admiral had demanded that the account of the transactions in the Tagus should be published in his own words, and his desire not being complied with, the government of Portugal, which was under the protection of this country, was on that account called upon to make further concessions. Another very curious demand, and which had some connection with the petition just presented, was, that the French subjects trading to Portugal should be put on a footing with the most favoured nation—that is to say, with England. When he saw that such demands were made, and when he saw that his Majesty's Government had done nothing on the subject, he could not but feel, that Portugal had been treated in a manner unbecoming an independent nation. His opinion was, that the unfortunate situation of Portugal was to be attributed to its having no defined relation in Europe. It did not at present belong to the families of Europe, and it was the duty of the Government of this country to remove it from that situation. But the noble Earl asked, why had not the late Government made arrangements for recognizing the Portuguese government? In the first place, the late Government was bound by engagements, not made by the then Ministers, but by the former Government, to recognize Queen Donna Maria as the sovereign of Portugal. The Prince who was seated on the throne of that 1120 country had broken his engagements, and no one lamented the circumstance more than he did. He had done every thing to prevail upon that Prince to conduct himself in a manner suited to his honour and interest, and every thing that was proper to avenge the insult offered his Majesty by the breach of the engagements into which Don Miguel had entered. But after so acting, he felt it to be his duty, as a servant of the King, to endeavour to restore friendly relations between Portugal and this country, by the re-union of the different branches of the Braganza family. It was not the business of the English Ministers to support a civil war in Portugal, or to endeavour by force of arms to re-establish the constitution; but it was their duty to do every thing by way of conciliation and advice to restore amity between the two branches of the Braganza family, and thereby bring Portugal back into the family of nations. He had made various efforts to accomplish that object. He found Don Pedro sometimes desirous of going to war, provided this country carried it on for him; at other times desirous of settling matters by amicable negotiation; and again returning to the idea of waging war against his brother, by means of which he (the Duke of Wellington) never could approve—namely, by revolutionary means, and by affording assistance to rebels against the government de facto of Portugal. He believed that Don Pedro himself was now aware of the impropriety of employing such means, for he found that he had lost the empire of Brazil in consequence of resorting to them. He afterwards learned that Don Pedro was desirous of settling matters by giving his daughter in marriage to Don Miguel: but he accompanied the proposition by the condition that England should be answerable for the conduct of his brother. After all that had passed, it was not to be expected, that the English Ministry would agree to such a proposition, and this negotiation was therefore broken off. The noble Earl had quoted a paper, dated the 17th of September, 1830, and signed by his noble friend, in which it was stated, that if certain conditions were complied with, the government of Don Miguel would be recognized. He had very often had doubts on the subject of that recognition. He always felt great objections to making this country an arbitrator between Don Miguel and his subjects; but still he 1121 did think, that before he could advise his Majesty to recognize that Prince, or call upon the other Powers to do the same, he ought to require from him, that he should offer a general amnesty to all his subjects, and particularly those who had been in the service of his brother. The noble Earl had said, that that condition had never been performed; but that which the noble Earl had not told the House was, whether he was willing, in case that condition was complied with, to recognize the government of Portugal, and send an Ambassador to that country? Had the noble Earl told Don Miguel that his recognition depended on his compliance with that condition? He thought, that when the noble Earl came forward and blamed the late Government for not making arrangements for the recognition of Don Miguel, he ought to have followed their example in that respect. It was even more incumbent on the noble Lords opposite than on the late Government to bring back Portugal into the family of Europe; because the revolution of France had latterly made great progress. It was the revolution which rendered it necessary for this country to prevent Portugal becoming what it otherwise would become—a province of France. We now owed it to the firmness of Don Miguel and the Portuguese people, and to nothing else, that Portugal was not at this moment in close alliance, commercial as well as political, with France. The French Admiral had done all but make a conquest of the country. He had required the surrender of the fortress St. Julian, and the enjoyment by French subjects of commercial privileges only granted to Englishmen; and would any man tell him, that if Don Miguel had not called upon his people to protect him against such demands, Portugal would not have been at this moment in close alliance with France? The noble Duke concluded by stating his opinion, that none of the topics introduced by his noble friend were irrelevant to the subject matter of the petition.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, that as a panegyric had been, on a former occasion, pronounced upon an individual in authority in Lisbon, under his Majesty's Government, he thought he might communicate to their Lordships the substance of a letter which he had received from an officer of rank there, which would place the conduct of the individual in question in its true 1122 light. The gentleman from whom he derived his information was high in military rank, having served throughout the whole Peninsular war, and having been employed as Aide-de-camp to the nobleman who was now at the head of the Government in Ireland. The noble Marquis then read an extract from the letter which represented, that now, as the experiment had been tried, and had failed, of promoting an insurrection against Don Miguel and the Portuguese government, England might have some mercy upon the Portuguese, by withdrawing the Consul, and ceasing to persecute them. But it was evident, that the wishes of the Portuguese people were entirely in favour of the king—that the armaments sent to Portugal were an experiment made by England and France, and the writer had no hesitation in declaring his belief, that the Consul was the framer of the proceeding; that grievances would have been redressed without resorting to violence. as was proved by what had occurred at the house of a Mr. Roberts, who having been improperly taxed, and an Italian servant of his treated with severity, complained to the authorities, and obtained full satisfaction; that only sixty-five out of 800 British residents signed the representation of grievances forwarded by the Consul; that that gentleman was in the habit of calling Don Miguel a tyrant, a monster, an usurper, and of adopting other expressions frequently used by newspapers, but highly indecent in a diplomatic agent; that he had been heard to express hopes of the downfall of the king; and that on one occasion he entered a room rubbing his hands, and exclaiming with exultation, that he had sent a slap in the face to that rascal Santarem, and that he hoped soon to see the usurper flying over the frontier. The writer then asked, if such a person was fit to conduct amicable negotiations with the Portuguese government. The noble Marquis observed, that he should have no objection to place this letter, with the name of its author, in the hands of the noble Earl opposite, if the noble Earl would give him an assurance that, in case the statements should be proved, Mr. Hoppner should be withdrawn. The letter said, in continuation, that the Consul told the people in Portugal, that, if they wished to ingratiate themselves with the British Government, they would get rid of their king. Don Miguel had been kept 1123 upon his throne for three years by his people, during which interval three kings had lost their crowns, and it asserted that there was no foundation for the imputations of vicious and immoral habits cast upon Don Miguel. He must say, that he saw throughout the whole of these transactions respecting Portugal, an attempt on the part of France to interfere with and dictate to the Ministers of this country, which, if it succeeded, would be fatal to our interests. He hoped the noble Earl would be able to answer the able, eloquent—indeed, he would say the unanswerable—statements made by the noble Duke behind him. With respect to the aggression upon Portugal, there could be but one feeling throughout the country, notwithstanding the ingenuity of the noble Earl in getting the opinion of the King's Advocate upon that disgraceful transaction—an opinion which would cut two ways—as not only did it furnish a momentary defence for having suffered the French to commit that outrage, but France would take advantage of that opinion of the British King's Advocate, if any attempts were made to get back the shipping. He saw from the beginning of the Administration of the present Government, a desire to court France; supposing, no doubt, that while they had peace with France, they would be able to keep the peace of the Continent. They would never support the honour or the interests of this country by truckling to France, and shamefully yielding to her control, as had been done with respect to the Belgians. On the contrary, by such policy our interests would go down in a most disastrous manner. He admitted, that Mr. Hoppner, who was alluded to, was, as a private gentleman, a person of perfect respectability. He had spoken of him only as a public man, and he must say, that in the present state of Portugal, deserted as she was by this country, such an individual ought not to remain in charge of a diplomatic concern there.
The Marquis of Lansdownsaid, it was not his intention to enter into the question which had been brought forward, but he could not avoid saying a few words on the extraordinary course pursued by the noble Marquis. He would put it to the noble Marquis himself, whether it was fair to bring openly a charge of this kind against a public officer, on information which, as far as the noble Marquis had gone, was anonymous.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, he rose to explain [cries of "Order" from the Ministerial side, in the midst of which the noble Marquis continued for some moments to press himself on the attention of the House]; at length the noble Marquis said he rose to order. [The cries of "Order" were continued.]
§ The Lord Chancellor rose to order. He said, the noble Marquis had the right to rise to order if any thing disorderly, which he certainly had not heard, had fallen from his noble friend (the Marquis of Lansdown), but he had no right to interject a speech, by way of explanation, between an unfinished sentence of any noble Lord who was addressing the House. It certainly was often a convenience to allow of interruptions, where the interruption was to set the noble Lord speaking right as to a matter of fact; yet, even in that case, it was only by the courtesy of the noble Lord who was speaking that any other noble Lord could be heard; but it certainly was not in order for any noble Lord to rise to explain in the middle of the speech of another noble Lord.
The Marquis of Lansdownsaid, he should be sorry to deny an act of courtesy to any noble Lord in that House; but if the noble Marquis would have the kindness to hear him, he would be able to say whether he was correctly stating the proceeding which the noble Marquis had adopted. He was stating, when the noble Marquis interrupted him, that the noble Marquis brought a charge against a diplomatic agent upon the foundation of an anonymous letter; and he was proceeding to observe, that although the noble Marquis could not deny, that the information was anonymous, inasmuch as he had not stated the name of the author, yet he had certainly stated, that he was prepared to communicate it to the members of his Majesty's Government, but with this preliminary condition, that they should agree, on receiving that communication, to prejudge Mr. Hoppner. Well, at least, to examine into the case. He contended, then, that even in the view admitted by the noble Marquis, such a case would be most unjust. If the noble Marquis meant to refer the case to the judgment of his Majesty's Government, it was his duty to make a communication to the Government, and to enable the Ministers to adopt such proceedings as they should judge proper. 1125 As he knew that it was not the good fortune of his Majesty's Government to possess the confidence of the noble Marquis, if he did not think proper to intrust the paper to them, previously to making his statement, it was his duty to have brought forward, upon the letter, to which he, of course, attached credit, some parliamentary proceeding, by submitting a motion for inquiring into the conduct of Mr. Hoppner. He must beg to state, that although he had not the satisfaction of having any personal knowledge of that amiable and excellent man, as he believed him to be, from the reports of others, yet, from all his knowledge of his proceedings in Portugal, he was convinced, that there was not one of the charges made against him which was well founded. But whatever might be the feeling of the noble Marquis, as to the conduct of the individual, that House would never countenance a proceeding against him without hearing the individual in his own defence, without hearing the case fully stated, and giving him the opportunity to which he was entitled of rebutting statements which, if proved, would be inconsistent with every fact which had come to his knowledge, with respect to the conduct of Mr. Hoppner. Therefore, until the noble Marquis brought forward such a motion—which, after what had passed, he was bound to do, and which he had no doubt Mr. Hoppner would be ready to meet—he was sure the character of that amiable, excellent, and accomplished individual would not suffer in the estimation of the House or of the country. Having said so much, he was not anxious to go into the subject of debate, notwithstanding the taunts of the noble Marquis. The noble Marquis stated, that his Majesty's Government intended to shelter themselves under the opinion of the King's Advocate. It was a new charge to accuse any Government, in the steps which it took on points involving the law of nations, of neglecting to receive all the information they could obtain. It might, indeed, be more consonant with the policy which the noble Marquis would recommend to overlook all the facts, either as regarded Don Miguel, whom the noble Earl's correspondent panegyrised, or Mr. Hoppner, whom his correspondent, he would not say libelled, but attacked; but such a course would not become his Majesty's Government in conducting the affairs of 1126 State. The noble Marquis had declared, that if the opinion of the King's Advocate were produced, it would countenance his views on the subject; and the noble Duke had also called for the production of that opinion; and his Majesty's Government had been charged with sheltering themselves under an opinion which, if produced, would not bear them out in the course which they had pursued. From the general character of the discussion which had that night taken place, if discussion it could be called, it was clear, that in assenting to the production of this document his Majesty's Government had greatly disappointed the noble Earl and his friends. It was clear that they had asked for the paper, not only with the hope, but in the expectation, that it would be refused. It was granted. His noble friend had stated, that in a few days it would be produced, and then the other side, instead of waiting for its production, were anxious to raise a discussion on papers devoid of authenticity; to satiate the minds of the House with such a discussion not founded on facts; to bring forward what statements they pleased from foreign newspapers and other quarters; to take all the advantage which they could of this sort of premature and illegitimate discussion, and to anticipate and avoid that discussion which was desired by all who wished for a fair, a manly, and an open consideration of the question. Into the particular dates and circumstances of the case, as they would appear more distinctly hereafter, he would not then be tempted to enter. But as the noble Duke had referred to the conduct of his Majesty's Government with respect to the proceedings of the French fleet in the Tagus; and as the noble Duke had said, that his view of that conduct had been altered by the circumstance of its now appearing that we had only followed the French in demanding satisfaction from the Portuguese government; whereas he had formerly believed, that we had led the way in demanding that satisfaction: and as the noble Duke had observed, that that made all the difference in the case, he begged to trouble their Lordships for a few moments on that part of the subject. The noble Duke contended, that if we had preceded the French government in requiring satisfaction from the Portuguese government, and the French government had followed us in that demand, that the 1127 course of conduct which we had adopted would, in that case, have been perfectly justifiable. The noble Duke's argument went to this, that if we did not want justice from the Portuguese government, but France did—then if France preceded us in the demand for justice, which justice we did not want, because she preceded us, she was not entitled to justice. If the noble Duke had said, that there might be considerable difficulty in ascertaining the particular dates and points of the different grievances complained of to the government of Portugal by the representatives of the different countries—recollecting that both the French and English Governments had to complain—not of one grievance, but of a long accumulation and mass of grievances, the statement would have been a just one. But if the noble Duke meant to direct his observations to the energy and promptitude with which either the English or French Government set the example of the manner in which a great nation ought to redress its grievances and vindicate its honour, he would tell the noble Duke, that it was the English Government which first sent a fleet to the Tagus in the Spring, and that it was not until the month of June that the French fleet followed. Not meaning to enter further into the subject at present, he would, however, observe, that there was one point on which he entirely agreed with the noble Duke and the noble Earl. He entirely agreed with them, that in asserting the honour of the country, his Majesty's Ministers were bound not to indulge in any speculative opinions of their own with respect to the forms of government in the country with which they were engaged in discussion, but that they were bound to look solely at the relation and connection between the two countries. He hoped that when the subject came regularly before their Lordships, it would distinctly appear, that in no transaction which had taken place between his Majesty's Government and the government of Portugal, the former had been actuated by a disposition to do anything but to maintain the relations between this country and Portugal, as far as the calls of justice would permit. But he must say—especially after what their Lordships had heard that day, and after what had fallen from the noble Earl, lately his Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs—that if a government required our protection, not only in 1128 acts of justice, but in acts of injustice, the sooner that government was taught to know that acts of injustice, committed with reference to its own subjects, or to foreign States, would not receive the protection or encouragement of this country, the better. Whatever might be the circumstances of Portugal, its king, its government, and its people, ought to be taught, that they could rely on England for protection and support, only while they pursued an honest, open policy, and were faithful to their treaties with foreign Powers; but that if they pursued a different line of conduct, they would lose the benefit of that protection and support. That was a lesson which he trusted Portugal would ultimately learn; and in the mean while, no disposition existed on the part of his Majesty's Government to take any step which could be avoided, that might retard the restoration of the relations of Portugal with other States of Europe, which on many accounts he admitted it was most desirable should be restored.
The Marquis of Londonderry, in explanation, said, he was sure the noble Marquis (Lansdown) did not intend to show any want of courtesy to him in not giving way to the explanation which he was about to offer. The noble Marquis could not correctly call the information which he had mentioned anonymous. He had stated it on the authority of an officer of rank, and he had offered to lay the whole of the letter before any of his Majesty's Ministers; but as the noble Marquis had called it anonymous, he could have no objection to state the name of the distinguished officer from whom it came. The officer was Brigadier-General Sir John Campbell. He was unwilling to mention his name, except in the way he had at first proposed; but he must say, that the gallant officer from whom the letter came had no objection to the mention of his name. He must stand excused, therefore, if he relied upon such information; and he must add, that all the information which had reached him on the subject of the interference of our diplomatic agent at Lisbon, was the very reverse of that which he had heard from his Majesty's Ministers on the subject. The information he had mentioned was sufficient to rescue him from the charge of relying upon anonymous communications.
§ The Duke of Wellington, in explanation, said, he had not entered into the 1129 cause of the quarrel between France and Portugal: he spoke only of the acts of France, and of what he considered the inconsistency of those acts, according to her own showing.
§ The Duke of Richmondsaid, that his noble friend (the Marquis of Lansdown) was perfectly justified in applying the term "anonymous" to the communication made by the noble Marquis opposite. The noble Marquis had now mentioned the name of his correspondent, and he must say, that Brigadier-General Sir John Campbell was a very meritorious officer, and had distinguished himself during the Peninsular war, but he was married to a Portuguese lady, a Miguelite, and it was not improbable, that his opinions had received a bias on that account. But there were two parties involved in such a charge as the noble Marquis had brought, and before their Lordships could come to a correct conclusion on the subject, it would be but fair to hear the answer to the charge. The noble Marquis had read a part of the letter: now he should like to put a question to the noble Marquis, which he hoped he would have no objection to answer. He should wish to ask him, what number of his subjects that excellent king, Don Miguel, to whom the noble Marquis and his correspondent had given so good a character, had now in prison. He had heard that they amounted at least to 6,000; but he should like to hear, from so good an authority as that of a friend of Don Miguel, what number he would admit, because, in that way, their Lordships might judge whether Don Miguel was entitled to the praise which had been given to him.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, he did not feel called upon to answer the question of the noble Duke, because the noble Duke seemed to assume, in the outset, that a British officer of rank would, in consequence of his assumed prejudice, state that which he did not believe to be true. He would say, that no British officer of rank would state what he did not believe to be true. He would not give any further explanation to the noble Duke than this—that he was ready to submit the letter to the noble Lord, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and the noble Duke might get from that noble Lord any information he could on the subject. He was, however, quite sure, that Sir John Campbell would be ready to substantiate any of the statements contained in the letter.
§ The Duke of Richmondsaid, he was not disposed to quarrel with an old British officer on this subject, as the noble Lord seemed to put it in that way; but he would repeat what he had said, that the circumstances in which that officer was placed made it probable that he was biased in the communication which he made. Further than that he would not say on that point; but he must observe, that if the noble Marquis attached such importance to this information, he should have put it into the hands of Ministers. It was not a fair way of putting it, to give half a case to their Lordships, and to suppress the other half, which perhaps might make so much for his purpose. As the noble Marquis had the whole case before him, he would wish to ask him, whether there were not 6,000 of Don Miguel's subjects in prison from their supposed hostility to him? He should like to know the whole of the particulars, and not a partial statement of them. The noble Marquis had said, that a British officer, high in rank, could not be supposed to state that which he did not believe, but he (the Duke of Richmond) had just as good a right to suppose, that an officer, of the high rank and character of Mr. Hoppner, would not be guilty of the acts that had been attributed to him. It was alleged, that he had attempted to revolutionize Portugal against its present government. Now, if he had done so, and he was continued in the public service after that was known to the Government, he, and the Minister who continued him, would deserve to be impeached; but the charge, he must say, did not come with much force, considering that the party making it was likely to be much biassed in his judgment; and though he would not say that that bias would induce any man of honour to state what was not the fact, yet the bias might induce him to believe that which a less partial person would doubt. He repeated, however, that the noble Marquis should have stated the whole of the case to the House, and have left it to form its judgment on the whole, and not on a partial statement, of which even the important fact of the name of the noble Lord's authority was brought out in an explanation. He must say, that the gallant officer was not over discreet in his mode of communicating this important information, nor was the noble Marquis much more so in his mode of laying it before the House.
The Marquis of Londonderryrepeated, that he was willing to put the whole of the document into the hands of his Majesty's Ministers, and the noble Duke might get what information he could from them. He owned he did not expect to hear the noble Duke condemn, for want of discretion, an old officer who had seen much more service than the noble Duke himself, and who was as discreet as he was in his public duty.
§ The Duke of Richmondwould not advert to the opinion of the noble Marquis as to his conduct, for the censure of some parties was praise; but, without meaning to disparage an old officer, he must say, that he did not think this mode of communicating his information was the most discreet. He (the Duke of Richmond) might be a very indiscreet Postmaster-General, but that would not alter the case with respect to the parties to this communication. If the gallant officer attached so much importance to it, he ought to have communicated it to the Government in the first instance. As to his own military services, he knew they were very small, and he was not in the practice of saying any thing of them.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, that if the gallant officer had communicated his information to Ministers in the first instance, the public might have heard nothing more about it.
§ Viscount Melbourneasked, to whom the gallant officer had addressed his letter?
§ The Petition to lie on the Table.