§ The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, that he rose, pursuant to the notice he had given, for the purpose of submitting to their 837 Lordships some observations respecting the financial condition of the country. He was aware that it was usual, on occasions like the present, to advert as well to the external as to the internal policy of the country; to the measures emanating from both; to the effects which those measures had produced, and to the effects which those measures were likely to produce. Although, however, there were some topics connected with our foreign policy to which he might be anxious to advert—although there was one of these which was already ripe for discussion, the papers connected with it being on their table—yet it was not his intention to trouble their Lordships unnecessarily on the present occasion, with any allusion to foreign affairs, because he should have other opportunities for this, and because their Lordships had already been wearied with very long discussions. He should, therefore, confine himself entirely to the state, of the finances of this country, and to a comparison between their present, state and what they had been before. The country now found itself in this singular situation—namely, that with an increased expenditure, and with a large reduction of taxation, it had at the same time no overplus of revenue over expenditure, or at least so trifling an overplus, that it might fairly be called none at all, being, as he should presently show, not more than about 10,000l. He said that the country was in this situation now; for he put out of the question those occasions on which the Ministers found it necessary to come down to Parliament, and ask for a loan to carry on the service of the country on account of some of those accidental and unforeseen circumstances which occur in so large an establishment as this country possessed. To meet such occurrences, a surplus of income over expenditure had always been considered desirable, which was also advantageous, with a view to the diminution of the public debt. He was aware that there, was great difference of opinion connected with this point; he was aware that many great authorities were of opinion that no such surplus of income over expenditure was necessary; and he agreed with those authorities, when they said that this surplus ought not to be increased by borrowing, and so incurring new liabilities for the purpose of getting rid of old ones. At the same time, however, he could not look at what, had taken 838 place in this country of late years—even during the short time he had the honour of being in his Majesty's councils—without being sensible of the very great advantages which had resulted, and must result, from such a surplus of income over expenditure as would tend to the gradual diminution of the public debt. He was within the truth when he stated to their Lordships, that since the peace, the interest of the public debt had been reduced to an amount equal to what would pay the interest of 100,000,000l. of stock; and he thought their Lordships must therefore see that some overplus of income at least was highly desirable. But this was not all. Considering the hopes which had been held out at different times by persons at the head of the financial department, that there should be always such an overplus provided—considering the wishes which had been constantly expressed on this subject by all the Committees on financial affairs, and even by the last finance Committee—considering these things, he thought that he was not saying too much when he affirmed, that it, seemed to be a principle of the financial policy of this country, that there should be an annual surplus of income over expenditure, to be applied to the gradual diminution of the public debt. Besides these considerations, their Lordships must be aware, that much of the revenue of the country depended upon the seasons, and that almost all of it depended upon consumption. Their Lordships, too, must be aware that consumption depended upon taste and fashion, and upon those changes in taste and fashion over which no man could have any control. Thus, then, the revenue was subject to very material variations, the precise amount of which could not be foreseen, and which could be provided for only by a surplus of income. It was on this principle that the Government to which he had the honour to belong had proceeded in the last year. In the preceding year they had arranged so as to have had a diminution of the interest on the unfunded debt to the amount of 130,000l. a-year; and in the course of the years 1828, 1 829, and 1830, they had produced a diminution of expenditure to the amount of not less than 3,575,000l., the expenditure being in 1827, 51,390,000l., and in 1830, 47,815,000l. This difference, was produced by three years' close attention to economy. The Ministers of that day reduced the 839 services estimated for Parliament from 18,245,000l. to which they amounted in 1827, to 16,500,000l. speaking in round numbers, which was their amount in 1830; making a difference of more than 1, 500, 000l. Besides this, they had reduced their expenditure in the last year—that was to say, the year 1829–30—by an amount of 1,100,000l.; and besides all that, they laid the ground for a further diminution, by reducing the four per cents, lessening the charge for that stock, 788,000l. a-year. They had, therefore, made a reduction not of 3,500,000l. only, but in fact, a reduction of more than 4,000,000l. Having made such a reduction of expenditure, they considered themselves justified in proposing a large reduction of taxation. They did propose such a reduction accordingly, and with the consent of Parliament, they took off taxes to the amount of 3,350,000l. When they made this proposition to Parliament, they had a revenue which was estimated at—and he believed did not produce less than—50,480,000l. Their expenditure was only 47,815,000l. They had also, besides this, as he had already stated, the prospect of a further reduction by reducing the four per cents to the amount of 788,000l. By deducting this prospective reduction from their expenditure, their expenditure would amount to 47,027,000l.; and the difference, therefore, between their income and their expenditure was 3,453,000l. By repealing taxes to an amount greater than 3,000,000l., they had remaining but a very small surplus of income over expenditure. But then, at the same time, they laid on an additional duty on spirits, and they had every reason to expect, that by the repeal of the beer tax, a very considerable increase of the revenue would result from the increased production from the malt-tax, and he believed that the noble Lords opposite would acknowledge; that they had found that this expectation of their predecessors had been realized. They had hoped, too, that another year would give them still better prospects; for at that time they had not had the good fortune of the French revolution. They had, however, a large fleet in the Mediterranean, which the uncertain state of the affairs of Greece rendered it necessary to keep up; but as soon as the settlement of that country should have been accomplished, they had intended to put down that fleet, and to bring the navy estimates, like the army estimates, within 840 the frame of a peace establishment. They had hoped, and he thought reasonably, that by these means they should have had a surplus of income over expenditure to the amount of nearly 2,000,000l. sterling. It was in this condition of our financial affairs that the noble Lords opposite had come into office. Those noble Lords, however, had found themselves under the necessity of increasing all the military establishments, all the navy establishments, and, in short, all the establishments which their predecessors had been occupied for many years past in endeavouring to reduce. The estimates for their establishments exceeded the estimates of their predecessors in 1830 by about 930,000l. At least this was the amount of the apparent excess; but then he must observe that the real excess was 200,000l. or 300,000l. more; for the fact was, that the supply for the Ordnance was not charged to its full amount, a part of the expenses for it having been provided for by the sale of old stores, including even arms belonging to the department. Thus the charge for the Ordnance appeared smaller than in fact the necessary expenses of the department amounted to; and the difference, therefore, between the estimates of the noble Lords opposite and those of their predecessors would have been 1,200,000l. and not 930,000l., if part of the ways and means for providing for the expenses of the Ordnance department had not been derived from the sale of stores. However, the noble Lords opposite would admit, that the excess, according to their own reckoning and the papers laid before Parliament, stood at 930,000l. He understood the amount of revenue upon which the noble Lords calculated was 47,250,000l., which was a little higher than their predecessors had calculated the revenue for the year 1831, after deducting the taxes they had reduced. Then the expenditure of the noble Lords would amount to 47,239,850l, which subtracted from the revenue of 47,250,000l. would leave a surplus of only 10,150l. This, and no more, was the surplus of income over expenditure in a great country like this. He was perfectly well aware that the noble Lord (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had made out the surplus to be much greater, nearly 500,000l.; but then the noble Lord had been able to make out his amount of surplus in no other way than by resorting to a mode of calculating which was quite new in the financial system of this country. The revenue, that 841 noble Lord admitted would be 47,250,000l. The expenditure, however, the noble Lord calculated in this way:—the noble Lord took what had been expended and what might be expended, but not what Parliament had voted. The noble Lord said, "We have spent already up to October, being three quarters of the year, 35,221,643l.; for the remainder of the year, I will allow 11,534,578l.; so that our whole expenditure will amount to 46,756,221l." But this way of calculating could not be considered satisfactory. The votes which had been agreed to by Parliament amounted to 47,239,850l.; the revenue was calculated at 47,250,000l.; and the surplus, therefore, of income over expenditure was, as he had made it out, 10,150l., and not 493,000l. as the Chancellor of the Exchequer, by his mode of calculating, represented it to be. He was quite sure, that their Lordships would at once see through the fallacy of this statement. It. might be true that it would not be necessary to provide, during this year, for a greater outlay than had been stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer; but although a nation, like an individual, might not be called upon to discharge within the year all the liabilities contracted by it during that year, yet he must say, that both the nation and the individual ought, in calculating their expenditure and receipts, to set the expenditure and the receipts of each year against one another; and if the question was one of defraying yearly expenditure by means of yearly receipts, to provide for the liabilities contracted in one year out of the receipts of the same year. He must contend, therefore, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had introduced into the financial system of the country quite a new principle—a principle which in any times but the present would not have been listened to for a moment, even if any Chancellor of the Exchequer had brought it forward—which he did not think would have been likely in any other times than these. Having this prospect before them, the present Ministers had thought proper also to propose a large reduction of taxation. They had repealed the duties on coals which produced to the revenue 950,000l. a-year, they had made an alteration in the cotton duties, by which, as he understood, the revenue would lose 300,000l. a-year more; and, besides these, they had made a prospective repeal of the candle duties, by which the revenue would 842 sustain a further loss of 500,000l. a-year. Two of these alterations took place in the month of March last, and the other was to commence in February. With every allowance for increase of consumption, he thought that the loss of income which would result from these alterations in the present year, could not be calculated at less than 900,000l.; and this, therefore, would have been so much surplus revenue at this moment if the taxes had been retained. But let their Lordships look at the next year. Then there would be, by the coal-tax, the cotton duties, and the candle-tax, more than 1,700,000l. taken from a revenue which already exceeded the expenditure by no more than 10,000l. He was one of those who said, a long time ago, that he thought the repeal of the coal-tax a very proper measure, if it were proper to repeal any tax; but the noble Earl should recollect that he had told him that the mode to supply the consumer with cheap coals was, not to begin by repealing the tax, but by putting an end to the abuses in the coal-trade. These abuses were still in existence. What were the consequences produced by the coalition between the coal producer and the persons engaged in bringing the article to market? Why, that while 950,000l. was lost to the revenue of the country, only 2s. a chaldron were saved by the consumer; the remaining 4s. going to the producer and conveyor of the coals, who, in addition to their other large profits, had now got the greater part of the King's duty. Their Lordships would now see that this was not the exact way in which the finances of the country ought to be regulated. And when their Lordships came to look at the consequences of the repeal of this tax, and how little benefit it produced to the consumer, they would feel the truth of his observations; certainly it was more desirable to have a surplus of the revenue over the expenditure to meet contingencies, than that the revenue should be diminished to the profit of a few wealthy individuals. If other circumstances rendered such a provision a matter of comparative indifference, still it was certainly more desirable to have the money lying in the Exchequer rather than in the pockets of the producer or the person by whom the coals were transported to London or elsewhere. Their Lordships would observe, that he had not said that he was averse to the repeal of this tax; what he had stated was, that it was expe- 843 dient, in repealing it, to give the consumer, not the producer, the full benefit of the measure, and that the repeal should only take place when Government was quite sure that the produce of the tax was not essential to the King's revenue. He made these observations because, looking to the preceding year, he was convinced that the revenue was tending to a state of great confusion; and the noble Earl, in case any accident should occur—in case of anything unforeseen arising in the money-market—something, for instance, with respect to the funding of Exchequer-bills— the noble Earl, he repeated, would find himself in a position of the greatest possible embarrassment.
§ Earl Greysaid, that as he had not been exactly aware of the nature and extent of the observations which he understood the noble Duke was to submit to the House; he must beg to apologize to their Lordships for not being so well prepared as he ought to be to answer the statements which the noble Duke had made, partly because he did not know how far the noble Duke intended to go, and partly because he was not very familiar with the details brought before the House. He would, however, explain to their Lordships in a few words his reasons for dissenting from the view of the financial state of the country taken by the noble Duke. With the first principle advanced by the noble Duke he entirely agreed. He was of opinion that it was both convenient and desirable that there should be a surplus revenue to meet any contingent expenditure; but when it was laid down that there was a necessity for a Sinking Fund—for any thing raised by taxation to be applied to the reduction of the immense mass of debt—he was decidedly against all such plans of taxation; as he entertained the conviction, that to leave the money in the pockets of his Majesty's industrious subjects, agricultural, manufacturing, and commercial, was a much better means of meeting the burthens that pressed upon the empire, and much more likely to lighten them, than any expedient like the old one of a Sinking Fund. It might be prudent to apply to such a purpose what could be spared, after providing for foreseen and unforeseen expenses; but he did not think it proper to levy fresh taxes, or to continue old ones that pressed upon the industry of the country, for the purpose of diminishing the debt; it was wiser to leave these resources with indi- 844 viduals to assist the various interests of which the aggregate prosperity of the nation was composed. The noble Duke had entered into an exposition of the condition of the public finances when he vacated office, and he (Earl Grey) was willing to give the noble Duke every credit for reductions, which he believed to be his due. Including the four per cents, the noble Duke laid claim to reductions amounting to above 4,000,000l. He had not the figures before him, but while he was ready to give every credit to the noble Duke, he did not know that he could exactly subscribe to his statement; he rather thought the amount would be found to be something less. The noble Duke stated, that the army and navy had been increased since the present Ministers came into office. True, they had been, and no man more regretted the necessity of that augmentation than he. The army had received an addition of 7,000 men, and a large naval force had been maintained—precautions called for by the state of Europe. But he believed the noble Duke had not objected to these measures; nay, so far from objecting, the noble Duke had, he believed, blamed his Majesty's Government that they had not armed to a greater extent, to put themselves in a condition for supporting the interests of the country. The naval and military establishments had undoubtedly been increased, owing to the circumstances of Europe when the Ministers came into office; the occasion that demanded additional precautions originated in no fault of theirs: it was their duty to place the country in the position the exigency required; and if he differed from the noble Duke as to the amount of force necessary, he had advised that increase which he believed to be sufficient, and additions might be made to it if found to be necessary to support the honour of the Crown and the interests of the country. The noble Duke had stated that there was last year a considerable surplus of revenue over expenditure; and had entered into calculations to show that for the current year the surplus would amount to no more than 10,000l. Now he (Earl Grey), after making allowance for the loss sustained by the repeal of the coal-tax, and every other loss peculiar to the year, found that the surplus would amount to at least 493,000l. Be it observed, that he was speaking after three-fourths of the year had elapsed—of three quarters there was 845 absolute certainly; and the probable receipts and expenditure of the concluding quarter were ascertained almost, to a certainty. The noble Duke objected to the mode adopted by his noble friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, of calculating the expenditure; but when so large a part of the year was elapsed, that was certainly preferable to relying on the estimate made at the beginning. He would explain his view of the income and expenditure: he took the produce of the customs at 17,840,000l. before the taxes were repealed. The deficiency arising out of that repeal was 644,000l. for the three quarters elapsed; to that must be added 210,000l. for coal-duties, and 161,000l. for the reduction on account of the taxes repealed in the quarter yet to come, leaving an amount of 16,825,000l. The Excise produced 18,640,000l. last year, but in consequence of the abolition of some duties and other contingencies, the estimated amount for this year, according to the proportion of the three quarters already elapsed was about 16,790,000l. He would next state the amount of taxes which had actually been remitted, premising that the duties upon beer, cider, and leather, had been taken off by the Government, of which the noble Duke had been the head.
Beer duty £2,350,0000 Cyder duty 260,000 Leather duty 50,000 Cotton duty 500,000 Candles duty 57,000 Coals duty 920,000 £4,077,000
§ The Duke of WellingtonThe reduction in the Beer duty was 3,200,000l. not 2,350,000l.
§ Earl GreyThe statement he had made referred to the actual loss of the revenue by the repeal of the duty last year; the total amount of the taxes repealed was, therefore, 4,077,000l. The estimated produce of the Customs and Excise for the present year was 33,615,000l., which showed an apparent deficiency of 2,865,000l. as compared with last year; but when it was considered that taxes had been repealed to the amount of 1,112,000l. more than that sum, it was clear there had been an additional consumption making up part of the loss, and this was a proof of the wisdom of throwing off, as far as was possible, the fiscal restrictions on the con- 846 sumption of exciseable articles, It afforded good ground to hope that a judicious reduction of taxation would eventually benefit, rather than injure the revenue. He would next advert to what the noble Duke had said with respect to the repeal of the coal-tax. The noble Duke had admitted that it was not an improper tax to be repealed—it weighed very heavily upon the community, particularly on the lower orders; and, as some of their Lordships knew, with peculiar severity upon the people of the southern counties. The noble Duke said, they ought to take care that the people felt the benefit of the repeal, and that the amount of the duty did not go into the pockets of the producers. To that sentiment he cordially subscribed. The noble Duke further remarked, that it was necessary to regulate the coal trade in London. To that he also subscribed; and a Bill for the express purpose had passed that and the other House of Parliament, and was now part of the law of the land. He supposed this would satisfy the noble Duke, and he trusted it would have a beneficial effect, and accomplish the end at which it aimed. The noble Duke had argued a little unfairly from circumstances peculiar to the present year. He said, that the reduction of the duty only benefitted the consumer to the amount of 2s. a chaldron, while the remaining 4s. went to the producers. He thought this an unfair view, when he called to mind the circumstances which had hitherto prevented the public from deriving the full advantage of the change. When the repeal took place, it had gone abroad that the community could not have the full benefit of the measure in consequence of the coalition of many of the pit-owners. The circulation of that opinion produced a strike for higher wages among the colliers. By their combination and cessation of work, the trade was stopped for he believed two months, and so great was the consequent distress for coals, even in the mining districts, that to "carry coals to Newcastle" could no longer be proverbially applied to illustrate the absurdity of sending an article where it was not wanted. He had seen letters from persons who supplied the Newcastle steam-boats, declaring that the vessels must lay in coals elsewhere, as they could not undertake to furnish them. He had known instances of the old heaps of small coal, that the noble Duke in visiting the north might have seen lying at the 847 mouth of pits; he had known instances of these being sold at the price of good coals. Under these circumstances, it could not be said that the good effects of the repeal of the tax had yet been felt. Combination was now happily at an end; and he anticipated, when the trade was proceeding in its usual way, that it would be found that Government had granted a very efficient measure of relief. [Some noble Lord observed, that it was already found to be so.] It appeared that it had already proved beneficial; but, at all events, if anything arose to prevent the public from deriving all the benefit that ought to result from the measure, Parliament was open to devise further means to accomplish the end in view. In order to show the fallacy of those calculations of the noble Duke, which had led him to state the probable surplus of the current year at only 10,000l., he would then enumerate the various items of receipt and expenditure. The revenue for the year they estimated in round numbers as follows:—
That was the sum stated by the noble Duke, as stated by his noble friend in another place. The total expenditure of the year, including the charge for the National Debt, would amount, in round numbers, to 46,756,000l., leaving, after all deductions, a surplus of revenue over expenditure of 493,000l., instead of 10,000l., as stated by the noble Duke. He could not see on what principle this statement could be denied, when the expenditure of three quarters was before them. He believed he might have taken credit for a much larger sum; but from the certain surplus he had shown to exist, the House, he felt assured, would be satisfied that the financial interests of the country had not been neglected, and would forbear to entertain the apprehension that they were not in a condition to meet any emergency that was likely to arise. He confidently hoped and expected that in another year further reductions would be practicable. This had been a year of great difficulty and depression. The unsettled 848 state of Europe had produced a general want of confidence: in the month of August the exchanges were against us, and there was a drain of bullion from the country. The difficulty resulting from the pressure had been rendered as little severe as possible; the contraction of the circulation had operated as lightly as was possible. The country owed much to the management of the Bank of England—a body which exhibited great diligence and ability in the conduct of its own affairs and the affairs of the public, and now he trusted that matters had taken another and more auspicious turn. The exchanges were now in our favour, the bullion was coming back, and if they might put faith in appearances, they might, with the continuance of peace, entertain the hope of growing prosperity, and he was happy to state, there was now better grounds for indulging the expectation of peace than there had been for some time past. Their Lordships all knew the question which had kept them in continual alarm respecting a war on the continent—the dispute between Holland and Belgium. He was happy to be enabled to inform the House, that after thirteen months of very difficult negotiation, conducted by the Conference of London, composed of the representatives of the five great Powers—a negotiation characterized by the singular circumstance that no serious difference of opinion was entertained by any one of the five great Powers engaged in them, had at length proposed terms of settlement equitable to both parties. These terms, he trusted, would be accepted by those interested in them, and remove all the difficulties which had hitherto retarded a settlement, and threatened to endanger the peace of Europe. He had stated that the settlement between Holland and Belgium, proposed by the five Powers of the Conference, was founded on equitable principles, and would briefly state what those principles were. From the moment when the re-union of Holland and Belgium became impossible (and the noble Duke opposite had admitted that it was impossible), he (Lord Grey) felt that the only just principle on which a settlement could take place, was this:—that the safety of Holland should be secured by a good defensive project, and that then all the advantages that could fairly be given to Belgium should be secured to it, in order to give her that character of independence which it was desirable she should 849 possess as a nation. It was upon those principles the Conference proceeded, and, at length, agreed upon a settlement, which it now remained for the adverse parties to accept, and which he trusted, they would speedily accept. Looking to the security which the amicable arrangement of a question so long pending gave, as regarded all our relations abroad, it was not, unreasonable to hope that a considerable reduction might be made next year in the public expenses, which had been increased during the present year, inconsequence of the unsettled state of foreign polities. Upon this ground he entertained some hope that further financial relief would take place in the course of next year; but to indulge with any degree of confidence in such an expectation, their Lordships must be aware that there was another thing, even more material than the favourable state of our relations abroad—the existence of peace and content at, home. This was a moment of great excitement throughout the country. Even those noble Lords, who were most reluctant to admit the interest felt by the great body of the people in favour of the measure of Reform, would not now deny the existence of a deep and intense feeling. But deep and intense as the feeling of the country was in favour of that measure, it was a great consolation to him to know that, except in a few instances, which were deeply to be lamented, the disappointed feelings of the people had not broken out into acts of violence or popular commotion. If acts of violence had been perpetrated, and tumults had occurred, it would have been the duty of Government to suppress them, and to punish the offenders. It was the duty of every man, to endeavour to preserve the peace and order of society, without which there could be no real prosperity— no true enjoyment; and if there was one class of persons more interested than another in the preservation of peace raid order at this time, it was that numerous class who avowed themselves to be the friends and supporters of the great measure of Parliamentary Reform. Nothing could be so adverse to the cause of Reform, or tend more to strengthen the hands of its opponents, and weaken those of its supporters, than the commission of acts of violence and disorder. As he had touched upon this subject, he felt himself called upon to allude to another subject, closely connected with it, in order to obviate a 850 very great degree of misrepresentation, which he regretted to state had taken place. It had been stated, that at a meeting which he very unexpectedly had with the delegates from some of the parishes in the metropolis, a few evenings ago, after leaving the House, he said many things which he did not hesitate now to say were not correct representations of what did fall from him, or of what passed at that meeting. The deputation, as he understood, waited on him chiefly for the purpose of enforcing on him the necessity of not advising his Majesty to prorogue the Parliament for more than seven days. That proposition he at once informed them was totally inadmissible; he added, that his Majesty's Ministers had not come to any final determination on the subject, but that it was a question which he claimed for himself and his colleagues the right to consider and determine upon in the way he thought best. He further added, that lie never could consent to hold the office he did in his Majesty's Government under any dictation as to what course he might deem it his duty to recommend his Majesty to adopt in such a case, but that he should advise his Majesty to the best of his judgment; and, if that freedom from dictation and control were denied to him, that it was impossible he could continue to retain his situation at, the head of the Government. He had said nothing of any particular period—nothing as to its being intended to prorogue until the end of January; but he had distinctly stated, that the duration of the prorogation must be left entirely to the discretion of the King's Ministers. He did state, however, that he felt he had a right to claim credit, and he did then claim credit for himself and his colleagues, when he declared that whether they advised Parliament to be prorogued for the usual length of time, or for a much shorter period, the chief object they would have in view would be to promote the interests of the public, and of that great measure to which the present Ministry was pledged. He would not then repeat the other statements which he had been represented as having made at this meeting; with one exception, on which he thought it important that no misunderstanding should take place. He did state that some alterations in the late Bill would be necessary before it was re-introduced, and that it would be for his Majesty's Ministers, during the recess, carefully to 851 consider what those alterations should be; but he distinctly added that he would never be a party to, or recommend any measure of Reform, which was not founded on similar principles, and as effective as regarded its declared object, as that which was lately before Parliament. This was the whole of what passed between him and the delegates from the parishes, except that when they represented to him that if satisfaction was not given to the public, as to the length of time on which Parliament was to be prorogued, it would tend to increase the agitation and excitement which prevailed; he felt himself called upon to inform those who communicated with him that it was their duty to use all the means in their power to repress agitation and excitement, and to keep the people in obedience to the laws of the country, that the Ministers might not be placed in the painful situation of being compelled to use those powers which, as a Government, it was their duty to use for the preservation of the public peace. With respect to the prorogation, he would only say, that whatever might, be the length of the period to which his Majesty's Ministers thought it their duty to recommend his Majesty to prorogue Parliament, it would be regulated by a sincere desire to do that which they considered most conducive to the advancement of the great measure of Parliamentary Reform, It must be considered, however, that there were limits to human strength. From the month of October last, with a short intermission, more fatiguing, perhaps, than even the sitting of Parliament, his Majesty's Ministers had been engaged in anxious and laborious occupation. His noble friend on the Woolsack, for instance, had gone through a degree of labour, in that House and out of it, which nothing but his extraordinary strength of mind and body could have enabled him to go through. In the other House, two noble friends of his, on whom the business of conducting the Reform Bill peculiarly devolved, besides the duties of their offices, had been in constant attendance in the House of Commons, early and late, during the last three months. His noble friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, particularly, had been compelled to devote his time incessantly to the discharge of his public duties. Many Members of Parliament, too, had private business which required attention, and it could not 852 be expected that they should give up their private concerns altogether, or do without, some relaxation. At the same time he fully admitted that every other consideration should yield to a sense of public duty. Whatever that required, he and his colleagues would advise; but they had a right to claim credit to this extent, that whether they were to think it expedient to recommend the prorogation of Parliament for the usual time or not, they did proceed with a sincere desire to effect the great object they had in view—the measure of Reform; and he felt after all that had passed, that he did not call on his fellow-countrymen for too much, when he asked them to wait patiently before they pronounced a censure on what might not appear to them quite conformable with the promotion of this great measure, though it might ultimately tend to it. He felt that he had said a great deal on this subject, more, perhaps, than was necessary. He asked pardon for the defective manner in which, he feared, he had laid the financial part of this statement before their Lordships; but then they were aware that he was not accustomed to those statements. He hoped, however, that he had sufficiently shown the result—founded on a knowledge of the receipts and expenditure of the three last quarters, that there was a surplus revenue of 493,000l. If he had wished, he might have stated the result more advantageously to himself, and made the excess appear greater. Thanking their Lordships for their indulgence, he should now conclude, hoping that if anything occurred, in the course of debate calling for it, he should be allowed again to address them.
Customs £16,750,000 Excise 16,800,000 Stamp duties 6,850,000 Taxes 5,000,000 Post-office 1,500,000 Miscellaneous 350,000 £47,250,000
§ The Duke of Wellingtonwas happy to find the noble Earl thought himself justified in denying some part of his statement, and that the noble Earl calculated upon a larger surplus than he had given credit for. He was also glad to hear the negotiations relating to Belgium and Holland were likely to be brought to a successful termination. As to the excitement to which the noble Earl had alluded, this was not the time to go into the question. He agreed however with the noble Earl, that it was greatly to be lamented, but he had his own opinions as to the causes of it. He trusted, however, noble Lords and hon. Gentlemen of the other House would be careful how they promoted it by speeches either in or out of Parliament.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, in consquence of attempts that were most pertinaciously made to induce a belief that there existed a difference of opinion between his noble friend (Earl Grey) and himself upon the subject of Reform; he would take that opportunity to repeat, that he heartily and fully concurred in all the remarks made by his noble friend. He had expressed the same sentiments before, but this had not induced certain persons to desist from misrepresentation; he spoke in the presence of his colleagues, and he would declare, there had never been the slightest difference of opinion between his noble friend and himself respecting the most minute details of the Bill—he would not say the principle, for as to that, it must be evident they all agreed; but he would say, even the smallest particular of it. He had only to add on the subject of the recess, that he had no apprehensions from the impatience of two or three individuals, well disposed and respectable persons, no doubt, and most zealous for the success of the Reform Bill, but who in recommending a prorogation for a week, certainly did riot display a "zeal according to knowledge." He must declare his opinion, that for the Session to recommence after so brief an interval, and to expect his noble friends in another place to renew their advocacy of the measure was physically impossible—human strength could not endure it. Alter having given three mouths, day and night, to deliberation and discussion, it was positively necessary, that some considerable relaxation should be had. None felt more than he did the impossibility of continuing such exertions. It was about twelve months since he began hard work in London, and during that whole time he had enjoyed no respite with the exception of two days at Christmas and Easter. Durum; that period he had been occupied from six o'clock in the morning till midnight; and if any man was so unreasonable as to say, he ought not to be allowed a little repose, with that man he would not stop to argue. He would throw himself on the good sense and kind feeling of his countrymen, and he was confident they would not bring in a verdict of Guilty. Whatever advice should be offered as to the time of prorogation, the people of England might rest assured, that it would be given on a solemn principle of public duty, and with a view to the carrying of that measure to which 854 none could feel more devoted than he and his colleagues. The public would see when that measure was again brought before Parliament, the candour with which they had acted, and that the period that would intervene was no longer than was required, he would not say in justice, but in mercy.
§ Bill read a third time and passed.