Lords Sitting of 8 March 1831

MINUTES.
Bills. The Dublin Asylum Bill read a second time. The Marine Mutiny Bill brought up from the Commons, and read a first time. The Additional Churches Building Bill, committed.
The Earl of MORLEY presented a Petition from the Merchants, Shipowners, and other Members of the Chamber of Commerce, Plymouth, against the alteration of the Timber Duties.

CIVIL LIST.
The Duke of Buckinghamwished to put a question to the noble Earl opposite, with respect to the state of the Civil List. He appealed merely to the Earl's courtesy, but hoped, that on a subject of so much consequence, the noble Earl would not refuse to give the information which he required. He wished, then, to know how it came that nothing had as yet been done with respect to the Civil List, and whether it was likely that a Bill on the subject would be introduced without much further delay? It was highly expedient that a matter of so much importance should not be left in the disgraceful state in which it stood at present. Although it was not very regular, perhaps, to allude to what was passing in the other House, where the Bill must first be introduced, yet it was notorious that there was a Committee of the House of Commons sitting on the subject, and had been sitting for a considerable time, without making any Report. He was desirous to know whether there was any time fixed for the Report being made, and how soon it would be made?
Earl Greyobserved, that to an application to his courtesy he should always be ready to reply with equal courtesy. The noble Duke could hardly fail to be aware that it was impossible for him (Earl Grey), as a Member of Parliament, to know more on the subject of what was passing in the other House than the noble Duke did. He regretted that so much delay had taken place, and that the subject had not been settled long ago; but as the matter was in the hands of the House of Commons, it was impossible for him, as a Member of Parliament, to take upon himself positively to give the noble Duke the information which he required. He might, however, venture to express his hope, that it was not likely that the delay would last much longer, and the noble Duke might be assured, that as soon as the Report was made, no time would be lost by his Majes-

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ty's Ministers in introducing a Bill on the subject.
The Duke of Buckinghamsaid, that he spoke on account of information which he had received, that it was likely that the Report would be presented that evening.
Earl Greyhad also been informed that it was likely to be presented without much further delay.
The Duke of Buckingham: Then it might be expected that the Bill would be brought forward before Easter.
Here the subject dropped.

REFORM PETITION FROM THE CITY OF LONDON.
The Lord Chancellorstated that he had in his hand a Petition from the Lord Mayor and Citizens of London, in Common Hall assembled, on the subject of Parliamentary Reform, which at present engrossed the attention of all classes of his Majesty's subjects. The only reason that occurred to him for the honour which had been done to him by being intrusted with the presenting to their Lordships the Petition of this great Corporation was, that he was himself a freeman of that Corporation. The petitioners expressed their strongest approbation of the measure of Reform brought before the other House of Parliament by his Majesty's Ministers, and prayed, that when it came into their Lordships' House, they would give it their most favourable consideration. The noble Lord said, he had another Petition on the same subject to present from the Students-at-Law, and those practising under the Bar in the Four Inns of Court, praying that their Lordships would take the measure into their favourable consideration. The Petition was very numerously signed; and the gentlemen who signed it were generally studious men, and little concerned in the ordinary business of the world.

SCOTCH UNIVERSITIES.
The Earl of Haddington The Earl of Haddington, adverting to the circumstance that a plan of Reform was under consideration in the other House, by which some additional Members of Parliament were to be given to Scotland, observed, that it might be well worth while to consider whether it would not be expedient to give the power of returning a Member to Parliament to each of the two principal Scotch Universities. It was known that all the Universities of Scotland had lately been visited by a Royal Commission, to examine into their state and situation, and
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this might facilitate the means of procuring that information which might be necessary to enable their Lordships to come to a sound conclusion on the question. He did consider it due to these learned bodies to consider whether it might be proper, so far to extend the elective franchise to them. In order to bring before their Lordships the information to which he alluded, he moved that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be pleased to cause to be laid on the Table of this House an account of the number of Graduates who had taken the degree of Doctor in Divinity, Law, or Medicine, or the Degree of Master of Arts, in the University of Edinburgh, from the year 1800, to the year 1830, both inclusive; and also a similar return for Glasgow.
The Earl of Rosebery The Earl of Rosebery, although it was not usual to second motions in that House, was yet anxious to express his cordial approbation of the Motion of his noble friend, and of the object for which it was made. He wished that the right of Representation might be extended to those learned bodies, and he had no doubt that they would receive the boon with gratitude, and exercise it to the advantage of the community at large.
The Bishop of Londonwished, that a distinction should be made between the resident and non-resident graduates.
The Earl of Haddingtonsaid, that was hardly possible, for the Scotch Students did not reside within the walls of their several Universities and Colleges.
Lord Tenterdenobserved, that it was highly desirable that the distinction should be made, for it often happened that persons in very inferior grades in the profession of medicine, and perhaps in other professions, went to these Northern Universities, and, without any residence or attendance at lectures, or, at least, after a very short residence or attendance, procured diplomas for themselves.
The Earl of Haddingtonwas not aware that there would be any difficulty in pointing out the amount of attendance on lectures given by the several persons who graduated during the period mentioned, although it would be impossible to make the distinctions required by the right rev. Prelate.
Lord Wynfordthought, that the amount of attendance ought, at least, to be distinctly specified.
The Earl of Haddingtonwithdrew his Motion, in order to put it in a different shape,

THE REV. MR. MARTIN DOYLE.
Lord Clifdensaid, that he had a Petition in his hands, to be presented, from the rev. Mr. Martin Doyle, the object of which was, to clear his character from certain imputations which that rev. gentleman understood had been cast upon it in that House. He had some doubts whether this Petition could, in point of form, be received; but the petitioner stated that, he had been for fifteen years parish priest of Donegal, in the county of Carlow, which was within a mile and a half of the residence of Lord Farnham—that in the course of that time he had been a member of an association for preserving the peace of the country— that he had been instrumental in detecting and bringing to justice certain persons who had been great disturbers of the public peace, and had received the. thanks of the Protestant Rector of the parish, and Grand Jury of the county of Carlow —that he had been very intimate with Lord Farnham, who was a member of the association to which he alluded, and he expressed his conviction that Lord Farnham was too honourable a man not to bear witness to the truth of his statement; and, finally, he produced four affidavits to show that he had no concern with the disturbances on account of tithes, although he knew that they were a most grievous burthen to the country.
The Duke of Buckingham roseto order. This was not a petition, and the noble Lord himself had stated at the outset, that in point of form it could not be received.
Lord Clifdencontended, that he had a right to read the address of the Grand Jury at least, if not. to read the affidavits.
The Lord Chancellorwas unwilling to interrupt one of their Lordships, and more particularly when he was speaking for a party who stood on his defence. But really they must preserve some order in their proceedings. In the other House they had a Speaker, whose peculiar business it was, to preserve order; but their Lordships' Speaker had no more to do in that respect than any of their Lordships; but, speaking as a Peer, he must observe, that all this proceeded on a breach of their privileges. The petitioner complained of what had passed in that House, although he could not, without a breach of privilege,
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know what passed there. To be Sure their Lordships winked at these things; but if a man came there with a distinct statement of a breach of privilege, they must take notice of it, and therefore the matter had better be left on what his Lordship had already stated, and on what another noble Lord (Farnham) might choose to say.
Lord Clifdenobserved, that he had already pretty well attained his object.
Lord Farnhamhoped, although this proceeding was not regular, that the House would indulge him with a few words. He had before stated, that he had been well acquainted with Mr. Doyle, and had a good opinion of him. It was perfectly correct that he had been a member of the association for preserving the peace of the country, and had done much for that object. He had been instrumental in bringing to justice a desperate gang of burglars, three of whom had been hanged, and two transported. It was perfectly correct that he had received the thanks of the Grand Jury of the county of Car-low. But at the time when he was on terms of intimacy with Mr. Doyle, he was not concerned in politics, nor engaged in agitation on account of tithes, or any other political object. He confined himself to his parochial duties, except in so far as he was concerned in the preservation of the peace of the country. But in the course of the last two years he had assumed a different character. He had already stated, that he had a high opinion of Mr. Doyle, when he was intimate with him, and very much regretted that he was obliged to change it.
Petition withdrawn.