The Marquis of Salisburylaid on the Table of the House the evidence given before the Committee on the state of the Poor, as far as it had been hitherto taken, and called the attention of their Lordships particularly to that part of it which related to the advantage which the poor would derive from having plots of land in their occupation.
§ Earl Stanhopealso recommended that part of the evidence to the attention of 11 their Lordships. He thought the plan would be attended with great advantage.
§ The Duke of Richmondthought, that it would have been better to have reserved the evidence until the whole of it had been taken; and the Committee had been occupied from the morning till four o'clock in discussing whether this portion of the evidence should be laid before the House now or not. He was anxious that it should not go forth to the public that giving the poor garden-plots was all the measure of relief which the Committee meant to recommend. The opinion of the Chairman might not be that of the Committee, and it was but fair that the noble Marquis should have stated that to the House. In his opinion, the distress— more particularly in the south-eastern districts of the country, arose from a superabundance of population—that was, in the existence in these districts of more hands than could find employment; so that the wages of labour were reduced to too low a rate, and many could not find employment at all for a great part of the year. Under these circumstances, he thought that a voluntary emigration might be attended with advantage, and that a plan might be devised, to enable such as chose it to emigrate to the Colonies, where there was a great demand for labour, and where the labourers were well paid. In the mean time, perhaps, it would have been better that the subject should not have been alluded to at all.
The Marquis of Salisburynever meant to say that giving the poor plots of ground was all that the Committee intended to recommend for them, nor was he aware that he had made any such statement. He had only recommended to the attention of their Lordships one point, which he thought had, on the evidence, been clearly made out. He had not said, that the plots of ground were to be limited merely to gardens.
§ Earl Stanhopeconcurred with the noble Marquis, that it was never meant to be stated, nor was it stated, that all that the Committee had to recommend for the advantage of the poor was the allowing them some allotments of ground, nor was it intended that these allotments should be confined to garden-plots. Every one must be aware of the advantage which the poor man derived from being able to keep a cow. In his opinion, it was highly proper that the evidence should, from 12 time to time, be laid before the House, that the different subjects might be discussed, from time to time, before the Committee should make their Report.
§ The Duke of Richmondhad no inclination to prolong the conversation. His only object was, that there should be no misconception. His own wish was, that the Committee should have waited till it could make its report; but since the secrets of the prison-house must come out, he would mention, that some were of opinion that the poor should have one acre, some that they should have two, and some three. The noble Earl (Stanhope), to be sure, had not said much about currency, but he made ample amends by means of a witness which he produced, and who recommended, as the grand specific for the relief of the country, an alteration in the currency.
Lord Suffieldconcurred in the opinion, that it would be useful that the poor should have small allotments of land, but he certainly was not of opinion that the relief to be given to the poor ought to be confined to that. He was of opinion that where there was a superabundance of population, the plan of voluntary emigration might be properly resorted to. But superabundance of population was a relative term, and meant that there were more hands than could find employment. The business, therefore, was, to find employment for the poor, and he was of opinion, that every possible means ought to be adopted for finding them employment at home, before any encouragement was held out to them to emigrate to the colonies or any where else.
The Earl of Carnarvonthought, that if these interminable conversations went on, the time of the House would be as much misspent as the noble Duke represented that of the Committee to have been that day. He thought that it would be advantageous that the evidence should be laid from time to time before the House; and that portion of it now presented, certainly did go strongly to make out that it would be desirable that the poor should have small allotments of land. As to emigration, to compel that was entirely out of the question, but he did think that it would afford considerable relief to the poor to enable them to emigrate to the colonies, where there was a great demand for labour, and where, consequently, the remuneration for it was ample,